469 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Gatt9 wrote...
Or to put it another way, an RPG requires Character Based Skill. An RPG cannot exist without it, it is what defines an RPG. Without it, it's just self-insertion, you've failed to assume a Role, and you cannot be Roleplaying. Dialogue doesn't make something an RPG, nor do side missions, in ME2's case, it makes a TPS with dialogue, nothing more.

This post makes me angry.

What defines RPGs is obviously not the role playing, people.

[sp0ck 06]

Gatt9 wrote...
Or to put it another way, an RPG requires Character Based Skill. An RPG cannot exist without it, it is what defines an RPG. Without it, it's just self-insertion, you've failed to assume a Role, and you cannot be Roleplaying. Dialogue doesn't make something an RPG, nor do side missions, in ME2's case, it makes a TPS with dialogue, nothing more.

So...RPGs are defined by stats and character skills?  Not story, dialogue, choice, characters?

Couldn't I just argue that Baldur's Gate was just a RTS with stats?

[AlanC9]

Ah, yes... "what is an RPG," round 37.

[sp0ck 06]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ah, yes... "what is an RPG," round 37.

Until we get more ME3 info what else is there to talk about lol

[CroGamer002]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

ME2 might have less RPG elements but it has better RPG elements.

While I agree with you, I was trying not to say this because now the ****storm is inevitable.

You my friend have some stones for saying that here.

I HAVE BALLS OF STEELS!

This guys have balls of fail.

[Phaedon]

I have balls of eezo

It's time to kick ass and calibrate and I am all outta omni-gel

Ah, yes, Duke Nukem references

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 juin 2011 - 03:56 .

[RideUrLightning]

Doubt it.

[CroGamer002]

RoninOmega wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

RoninOmega wrote...

Correction, Loot was gone in ME2.  If you hardly call adding the kind of mods me1 had on your armor customization, then how can you call barely picking up any weapons each 2-3 missions, with no variety in where you find them at all loot?  Sure, if you want to be cheap about it, oh and the ammo's do not count at all...

There was no variety behind it, there was no other types of loot besides upgrades/minerals which seemed that they would always be in the exact same spots...  And last, there's not even any economy behind it...

Nice logic... 

That's not a definition of loot.

You can't deny that there was much more of a presence of loot in Me1 than Me2, if you had absolutely nothing to pick up but 2 guns in the whole game, that are going to be placed in the exact same missions, would you still defend it based on definition alone? You would not like it either...  Don't argue for the sole reason of just arguing, honestly the amount of loot in Me2 could've been done much better, hence the reason why some do not even acknowledge there is even any in the first place.

In my opinion(take note I said my opinion, not fact), there was absolutely no loot in Me2, they can do better than that, and so far im happy to say that it seems they are probably going that direction.

Don't troll.

You only proved that in ME1 you had a lot more stuff to loot, mostly useless garbage.

In ME2 you can loot. It's called money.

[RideUrLightning]

Mesina2 wrote...

clerkenwell wrote...

DCopeland wrote...

It seems to set up better, but Mass Effect 1 had far superior amounts of RPG elements.
Butter luck next time buddy.

Mass Effect 1 had: Several powers you could improve in a linear fashion, customizable weapons, customizable armor, and loot.

Mass Effect 3 has: Several powers you can improve in a freeform fashion, customizable weapons, customizable armor, and loot.

What Mass Effect 1 elements am I missing?

To make full story for you.


Well for starters it's now freeform to upgrade your powers.

Customizable weapons in ME1 are failure. No audio nor visual changes and I-X mods.

You can't customize your armor at all in ME1. And adding mods to it can hardly be called customization.

Loot. Was never gone in ME2 to begin with.

All I can say to that is LOL

[CroGamer002]

Phaedon wrote...

I have balls of eezo

It's time to kick ass and calibrate and I am all outta omni-gel

Ah, yes, Duke Nukem references

What can I say? I fell in love to Duke Nukem Forever.

Also there is actual line "I have balls of fail" in that game.

[CroGamer002]

RideUrLightning wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Loot. Was never gone in ME2 to begin with.

All I can say to that is LOL

So me hacking bank accounts and safes for money is not consider looting?

[Phaedon]

RideUrLightning wrote...
All I can say to that is LOL

I am assuming you didn't pick up:

              a. Credits
        
              b. Weapons and Armour

              c. Technolodgy and upgrades

              d. Minerals

[lazuli]

Phaedon wrote...

RideUrLightning wrote...
All I can say to that is LOL

I am assuming you didn't pick up:

              a. Credits
        
              b. Weapons and Armour

              c. Technolodgy and upgrades

              d. Minerals

But, Phaedon, looting only counts as looting if it's randomly placed.  Oh wait.

[Phaedon]

lazuli wrote...
But, Phaedon, looting only counts as looting if it's randomly placed.  Oh wait.

Zing.

[Gabriel S.]

marshalleck wrote...

Mesina2 wrote..

You can't customize your armor at all in ME1. And adding mods to it can hardly be called customization.

WTF? What exactly do you consider armor customization then? Changing its color patterns?

Anyways. It's looking strong now, but the game is still 9 months away. That's plenty of time for Bioware to decide something not working or just not worth it, and discard it.

Well... customization implies having a specific item that is subjected to being made apart from the standard (in appearance or function).

In the first ME you could only customize in function. In the second, only in appearance (EDIT: well, actually you could say in function as well, but only in the sense that it comes anchored to a specific armor part; changing that part would have an effect both in appearance and in function, the disadvantage here being that you're forced to accept one form of customization, if you do not want to part with the other). In both games you could customize your armor.

Personally, I would prefer both ways of customization (or modification), but if I had to choose between the two it would definitely be the ME2 style.

Modifié par Gabriel Stelinski, 14 juin 2011 - 04:39 .

[Eshaye]

Phaedon wrote...

It's time to kick ass and calibrate and I am all outta omni-gel

I know that's not what you meant but it reminded me of a line in Shadow Broker when Liara is hacking through a door;

Shepard: Don't you miss the days when you could just slap omni-gel on these things? 
Liara: Yes, many people were angry with THAT security upgrade.

I lol'ed.. 

(I know I'm off topic but this topic is kinda silly anyway... )

Modifié par Eshaye, 14 juin 2011 - 04:22 .

[LPPrince]

The following is my opinion. Not trying to incite rage or flames, just understand where I'm coming from.

I feel that loot isn't really loot unless there's an inventory system for it to go into.

ME1 definitely needed a better inventory, but it ended up getting scrapped entirely rather than being improved upon/fixed/remade.

ME2, no real inventory. So I personally don't consider anything we picked up to be true loot.

Loot to me is armor, weapons, mods, such and such that can be sold, traded, etc etc.

In ME2, while we did pick things up, it didn't feel like loot to me since we couldn't sell a damn thing we had for credits we desperately needed.

Armor was bought in stores, not found, so not loot there.

Weapons were found, but there were only a few, rather than a ton. You can count all the "looted weapons" with one hand, two if you count DLC's. If that's possible, I don't consider it to be loot.

Credits, i.e. money, I DO and DO NOT consider loot, but this is where ME2 threw me off-

I hate knowing that there's always so many credits in a level. Say, 60,000 here, 40,000 here, 30,000 here, and if I missed some credits somewhere, I KNOW I missed some because of the mission complete screen.

That screen made me not even think of the money as loot. Without it, the money might feel more randomized, in which case it'd register as loot in my mind, but that screen makes my brain think of it as something else.

Weapon improvements(they aren't really mods) were again, not plentiful. Good thing, too. If they were, we'd be REALLY overpowered. But I'd consider them to be loot if they were more akin to actual modifications, like "equip this and your gun shoots more rapidly but at decreased accuracy" and if there were plenty of them laying around.

I know for a fact that my idea of loot is vastly different to others ideas of what loot is.

Loot at its most basic form is what we DID get in ME2, but I don't like having to go all the way down to the basic level just to justify something.

ME1 had loot the way I liked it- It just needed a better inventory system to handle it.

ME3, well, has yet to be seen. Won't know for sure till release.

But there you go.

[LPPrince]

I think the RPG/Shooter division is working like this-

ME1 was obviously meant as a TPS/RPG hybrid. Thing is, most of the fans who latched on to the series were RPG fans.

ME2 was made in a way to bring more shooter fans into the mix, to possibly even things out. Because it looked more like a TPS on the outside, the RPG fans became worried that the series was changing.

ME3 seems to build on what ME2 did, which is bringing more shooter fans into the mix, but returning some RPG elements shown in the first game to allay the concerns of the RPG fans that were there from the beginning.

I think I handled that right.

[rabidhanar]

If the I-X Rated Weapons were not implemented well...then to me the upgrade system was completely flawed in ME2...

First Off, you guys complain about no physical difference between the sets...Same with the upgrades.
Secondly you complain about having choices, sorry but doing the same with upgrades (passive entirely, they tier from 1 level to the next) is the same exact thing.

Now as to the weapons in ME2 verses the ones in ME1...
Frankly if you judge the weapons in ME1 (including the mods) there were a lot more options available to the player then in ME2. They might have looked similar (some were just reskins after all) but they worked differently...Some recharged faster, some did more damage, some fired faster, etc. Adding in the weapon mods and weapons could be switched out for their needs (high explosive rounds for that pesky Collosus, proton or inferno rounds for humans, Cryo on turrets, etc.).

In ME2's version, in both Vanilla game and with the DLC certain weapons will always trump the others.
The Difference between the Widow and the Mantis sniper is that the widow is better in all ways. The Viper and Incisor were the ony different ones in this aspect.

Mantis: Damage: 263.1, Ammo 10 (10 SAP), Reload: 1.5, Multiplier 1.5 Armor
Widow: Damage: 368.3, Ammo: 13 (14 SAP), Reload: 1.5, Multiplier 1.5 Armor


The Phalanx handgun is always better then the Carnifax...It does more damage, holds more shots, and is more accurate.

Carnifex Hand Cannon: Damage: 85.4, Ammo: 18 (19 SAP), Reload: 1.43, Multiplier 1.5 armor
Phalanx: Damage: 109.8, Ammo: 24 (29 SAP), Reload: 1.43, Multiplier 1.5 Armor
All Number Crunching curtesy of Mass Effect Wiki.

If you count weapons that are superior in all ways in ME2's set, then you should count every last II through X items in ME1...if you do not, then delete two weapons from your list. The only fault in ME1 was that they included ENDGAME superior items that required one to gain 1 Million Credits saved up in order to unlock for all subsequent playthroughs. If you remove that one set of items (that not everyone will get in a single first playthrough) then there are multiple items that all have their advantages and disadvantages over each other.

[sp0ck 06]

rabidhanar wrote...

If the I-X Rated Weapons were not implemented well...then to me the upgrade system was completely flawed in ME2...

First Off, you guys complain about no physical difference between the sets...Same with the upgrades.
Secondly you complain about having choices, sorry but doing the same with upgrades (passive entirely, they tier from 1 level to the next) is the same exact thing.

Now as to the weapons in ME2 verses the ones in ME1...
Frankly if you judge the weapons in ME1 (including the mods) there were a lot more options available to the player then in ME2. They might have looked similar (some were just reskins after all) but they worked differently...Some recharged faster, some did more damage, some fired faster, etc. Adding in the weapon mods and weapons could be switched out for their needs (high explosive rounds for that pesky Collosus, proton or inferno rounds for humans, Cryo on turrets, etc.).

In ME2's version, in both Vanilla game and with the DLC certain weapons will always trump the others.
The Difference between the Widow and the Mantis sniper is that the widow is better in all ways. The Viper and Incisor were the ony different ones in this aspect.

Mantis: Damage: 263.1, Ammo 10 (10 SAP), Reload: 1.5, Multiplier 1.5 Armor
Widow: Damage: 368.3, Ammo: 13 (14 SAP), Reload: 1.5, Multiplier 1.5 Armor


The Phalanx handgun is always better then the Carnifax...It does more damage, holds more shots, and is more accurate.

Carnifex Hand Cannon: Damage: 85.4, Ammo: 18 (19 SAP), Reload: 1.43, Multiplier 1.5 armor
Phalanx: Damage: 109.8, Ammo: 24 (29 SAP), Reload: 1.43, Multiplier 1.5 Armor
All Number Crunching curtesy of Mass Effect Wiki.

If you count weapons that are superior in all ways in ME2's set, then you should count every last II through X items in ME1...if you do not, then delete two weapons from your list. The only fault in ME1 was that they included ENDGAME superior items that required one to gain 1 Million Credits saved up in order to unlock for all subsequent playthroughs. If you remove that one set of items (that not everyone will get in a single first playthrough) then there are multiple items that all have their advantages and disadvantages over each other.

i would aruge that the Carnifex is actually superior to the Phalanx in many ways, most notably because you can aim and fire it much more rapidly.

See, that was the difference in weapons between ME1 and 2.  Sure, ME1 had a ton of options as far as ammo types and weapon mods, but the weapons all functioned exactly the same.  Every assault rifle felt the same when you fired it.  The mods only slightly tweaked certain stats.

ME2 had far less options but much more variety.  Sure, there's only a few assault rifles, but each of them handles completely differently.  I personally prefer the Vindicator, which is a totally different weapon than the Avenger.  

ME3 looks like its trying to combine the two schools of thought, which is great IMO.

[AlanC9]

rabidhanar wrote...
In ME2's version, in both Vanilla game and with the DLC certain weapons will always trump the others.

But isn't that a problem with DLC items generally? Same thing happened in DAO, where the DLC items were typically not only better than anything available at that time, but a few were better than anything you'd ever get.

[AlanC9]

LPPrince wrote...
I feel that loot isn't really loot unless there's an inventory system for it to go into.

ME1 definitely needed a better inventory, but it ended up getting scrapped entirely rather than being improved upon/fixed/remade.

ME2, no real inventory. So I personally don't consider anything we picked up to be true loot.

Loot to me is armor, weapons, mods, such and such that can be sold, traded, etc etc.

In ME2, while we did pick things up, it didn't feel like loot to me since we couldn't sell a damn thing we had for credits we desperately needed.

Armor was bought in stores, not found, so not loot there.

I actually agree with this definition of "loot." ME2 has equipment, but not loot.

The difference, I guess, is that LPPrince is for having loot and I'm against having loot.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

As long as they don't blindly reintroduce all the bad stuff from ME1 I'm fine with it. I felt ME2 was close to perfect but apparently some people actually miss ridiculous pink armour with useless mods that comes in 8 different levels of suck.

I mean, I hated having to sell LolArmour III and buy LolArmour IV with no real reason other than the stats were a eetsy pitsey bit better.

[Powgow]

ME2 had resources, not loot.

Loot is more fun and exciting, its feel like "oooh, i hope there is somethin cool in that box". YES! A big ass gun, that is slightly better then my previous.

Or, aaah this new gun shoots faster, but does less damage, mmmmmmmm, what would be the tactical advantage? Maybe i'll just sell it when it scrap.

And so forth, But no ME2 has no loot.