239 réponses à ce sujet

[Kakistos_]

Are there any retcons from Mass Effect 2 or even 1 that you would like rectified in Mass Effect 3? Some such subjects that I would like corrected or elaborated on are Thermal clips, Ammo "Powers" and Genophage fertility. Discuss.

[TexasToast712]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Are there any retcons from Mass Effect 2 or even 1 that you would like rectified in Mass Effect 3? Some such subjects that I would like corrected or elaborated on are Thermal clips, Ammo "Powers" and Genophage fertility. Discuss.

I see where this is going and the answer is No. ME2 > ME1.

[FluffyScarf]

How that Geth Shield in ME1 works. Why can they spam that on Insanity. And why does it look so out of place. Ruining the very lore it established. In the first game!

[Jorina Leto]

The way the thermal clips are working is just wrong. The hybrid system ist the solution.

Shields shouldn't protect against melee attack.

I want health, armor and shields for everyone.

And Ammo Powers are just ridiculous.

[Jorina Leto]

The way the thermal clips are working is just wrong. The hybrid system ist the solution.

Shields shouldn't protect against melee attack.

I want health, armor and shields for everyone.

And Ammo Powers are just ridiculous.

[Kakistos_]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Are there any retcons from Mass Effect 2 or even 1 that you would like rectified in Mass Effect 3? Some such subjects that I would like corrected or elaborated on are Thermal clips, Ammo "Powers" and Genophage fertility. Discuss.

I see where this is going and the answer is No. ME2 > ME1.

This thread is not about which game is better. The fact is that ME2 had retcons and there may be a few in ME1 ^ that some are not aware of. My hope is that ME3 will have all of these loose ends straightened out. Only this and nothing more Quoth the Raven Nevermore.

[Kakistos_]

Jorina Leto wrote...

The way the thermal clips are working is just wrong. The hybrid system ist the solution.

Shields shouldn't protect against melee attack.

I want health, armor and shields for everyone.

And Ammo Powers are just ridiculous.

Agreed. I wouldn't find Thermal Clips so distasteful if there was a decent explanation for their use. And Ammo Powers are not a skill. I think they should have been integrated into the new modding system.

[GreenDragon37]

Well, I did hate the Council's back-sliding of the Reaper threat. That was a stupid decision. All to railroad us into joining Cerberus. *sigh*

I hope that they have actually been building in secret and didn't just take some stupid pills.

[Flashlegend]

The genophage thing really really annoyed me. Wrex talking about thousands of still-born krogan babies and then we find out that the genophage only adjusts fertility rates in ME2. Really? Come on.

edit: ammo power retcon pisses me off more.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 09 juin 2011 - 06:21 .

[RoboticWater]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Agreed. I wouldn't find Thermal Clips so distasteful if there was a decent explanation for their use. And Ammo Powers are not a skill. I think they should have been integrated into the new modding system.

A decent explanation is this: if you are a normal soldier (not shepard, a normal feild soldier)  would you prefer a long cooldown or a quick reload. Also if ammo powers were there what would the soldier have as his powers. I agree that an ammo mod would be nice but the soldier would be left with next to nothing.

Modifié par BlahDog, 09 juin 2011 - 06:50 .

[Jorina Leto]

BlahDog wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Agreed. I wouldn't find Thermal Clips so distasteful if there was a decent explanation for their use. And Ammo Powers are not a skill. I think they should have been integrated into the new modding system.

A decent explanation is this: if you are a normal soldier (not shepard, a normal feild soldier)  would you prefer a long cooldown or a quick reload. Also if ammo powers were there what would the soldier have as his powers. I agree that an ammo mod would be nice but the soldier would be left with next to nothing.

What would you prefer? Just waiting and you can use your gun again or running out of "ammo" and never fire again.
And the way the thermal clips work dosen't make sense. Only a hybrid system would make sense.

And new powers as replacement for the ammo powers?
Marksman
Overkill
Carnage
Assassination

Or maybe some passive health/armor/shields boosts.

[Sgt Stryker]

Jorina Leto wrote...

What would you prefer? Just waiting and you can use your gun again or running out of "ammo" and never fire again.
And the way the thermal clips work dosen't make sense. Only a hybrid system would make sense.

You're right, a hybrid system would make more sense in terms of the lore. However, a lot of people seem to believe that the current system (no recharging heat sinks, need to scrounge for "ammo") is better of gameplay. I used to be against this too, but after some thought, I decided that the best way to reconcile gameplay with lore is to not take the gameplay as a 100% accurate indicator of the "reality" of the MEverse. Simply put: Gameplay-land =/= Lore-land.

In Lore-land, I see thermal clips existing alongside the old-style fixed heatsinks, because both systems have their respective advantages. The detachable heat sinks would be useful for intense close-range battles where high volume of fire is vital, while the ME1-style heat sinks would be useful for drawn-out siege-style battles where supply lines may be tenuous.

In gameplay-land, we're limited to thermal clips that never cool down on their own (violating thermodynamics, but that's another story), because that's what Bioware gave us in the form of the game engine.

[Kakistos_]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

What would you prefer? Just waiting and you can use your gun again or running out of "ammo" and never fire again.
And the way the thermal clips work dosen't make sense. Only a hybrid system would make sense.

You're right, a hybrid system would make more sense in terms of the lore. However, a lot of people seem to believe that the current system (no recharging heat sinks, need to scrounge for "ammo") is better of gameplay. I used to be against this too, but after some thought, I decided that the best way to reconcile gameplay with lore is to not take the gameplay as a 100% accurate indicator of the "reality" of the MEverse. Simply put: Gameplay-land =/= Lore-land.

In Lore-land, I see thermal clips existing alongside the old-style fixed heatsinks, because both systems have their respective advantages. The detachable heat sinks would be useful for intense close-range battles where high volume of fire is vital, while the ME1-style heat sinks would be useful for drawn-out siege-style battles where supply lines may be tenuous.

In gameplay-land, we're limited to thermal clips that never cool down on their own (violating thermodynamics, but that's another story), because that's what Bioware gave us in the form of the game engine.

Unacceptable. If Bioware is going to hire and pay great writers to create the backbone and organs of an entire universe then why ignore them? Throwing around retcons and contradictions is a lazy and irresponsable way to, some would say,  "improve" gameplay. Is it truly out of the question to meet the writers half way and manufacture a solution that works inside the lore, especially when we are talking about futuristic tech?

[Inutaisho7996]

None of those are Retcons. In between Mass Effect 1 and 2 heat sinks were replaced with removable heat sinks so soldiers could get more rounds down range faster so the enemy's kinetic barriers didn't have time to recharge and come back online. The Genophage effects offspring viability, not fertility; it says so in the Codex. And soldiers are the only ones that put ammo mods on their guns.

[Inutaisho7996]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Agreed. I wouldn't find Thermal Clips so distasteful if there was a decent explanation for their use.

It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in
performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically
reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic
barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most
rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to
deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their
weapons vented.
To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat
sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were
initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier
can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior
enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead, and
today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.

 From the Codex.

[Sgt Stryker]

Kakistos_ wrote...
Unacceptable. If Bioware is going to hire and pay great writers to create the backbone and organs of an entire universe then why ignore them? Throwing around retcons and contradictions is a lazy and irresponsable way to, some would say,  "improve" gameplay. Is it truly out of the question to meet the writers half way and manufacture a solution that works inside the lore, especially when we are talking about futuristic tech?

What's so unacceptable about that? The game is full of departures from reality/lore that are done for the sake of gameplay, including:
- Shepard's inability to crouch unless next to a chest-high wall
- Shepard's uncanny metabolism which requires no food, water, or sleep
- The Normandy flying from one star system to another in seconds (not using relays, mind you)
- Biotic users not becoming exhausted and passing out after firing several powers in a row in the space of a few minutes

Again, I must reiterate: gameplay-land is not lore-land - it's only a first approximation.

[Jorina Leto]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Agreed. I wouldn't find Thermal Clips so distasteful if there was a decent explanation for their use.

It was long thought that personal weapons had plateaued in
performance, but the geth proved all theories wrong. Mathematically
reviewing their combat logs, the geth found that in an age of kinetic
barriers, most firefights were won by the side who could put the most
rounds down-range the fastest. But combatants were forced to
deliberately shoot slower to manage waste heat, or pause as their
weapons vented.
To eliminate this inefficiency, the geth adopted detachable heat
sinks known as thermal clips. While organic arms manufacturers were
initially doubtful this would produce a net gain, a well-trained soldier
can eject and swap thermal clips in under a second. Faced with superior
enemy firepower, organic armies soon followed the geth's lead, and
today's battlefields are littered with these thermal clips.

 From the Codex.

This codex entry does not explain why the crew of the Hugo Gernsback have them.
And it's stil doesn't explain why there is no automatic weapon cooling anymore.

[tobynator89]

Let me tell you something here people, as a person that has actually been in the military (mech inf),

NO COMBAT GAME EVER! NO MATTER HOW REALISTIC IT IS TOUTED TO BE WILL EVER BE 100% REALISTIC OR EVEN CLOSE TO! ALL GAMES WILL MAKE ADJUSTMENTS FOR GAMPLAY REASONS AT THE COST OF MAKING IT LESS REALISTIC.

Sorry, felt like I had to beat this realization into you stupid peoples head with capitals. It's the reason why there are cutscene powers people. At least they made a decent excuse to change it that fit within the lore of the game.

[neubourn]

The retcon on thermal clips has more to do with the fact Shepard is revived and automatically knows what a "thermal clip" is.

[wizardryforever]

Are you familiar with this?  Gameplay and Story Segregation -> tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation

[Massadonious1]

I've always been convinced that they should have just taken clips out of every level where it didn't make sense. Then we could hear how awesome it was to Pull/Melee everything to death.

[DCarter]

tobynator89 wrote...

Let me tell you something here people, as a person that has actually been in the military (mech inf),

NO COMBAT GAME EVER! NO MATTER HOW REALISTIC IT IS TOUTED TO BE WILL EVER BE 100% REALISTIC OR EVEN CLOSE TO! ALL GAMES WILL MAKE ADJUSTMENTS FOR GAMPLAY REASONS AT THE COST OF MAKING IT LESS REALISTIC.

Sorry, felt like I had to beat this realization into you stupid peoples head with capitals. It's the reason why there are cutscene powers people. At least they made a decent excuse to change it that fit within the lore of the game.

Glad you employed your military expertise to tell us this. Now i can sleep safely know theirs no husks under my bed. 

Whatever retcons happened betweeen mass effect and mass effect 2 i fear there will be far greater ones to come in mass effect 3. 

[Jorina Leto]

Sgt Stryker wrote...


- Shepard's inability to crouch unless next to a chest-high wall

ME1 featured it. The lack of this is a known point of criticism.

Sgt Stryker wrote...
- Shepard's uncanny metabolism which requires no food, water, or sleep

There are time skips during cutscenes. Jonn Whitson's e-mail should make this obvious. But yeah there is room for improvment.

Sgt Stryker wrote...
- The Normandy flying from one star system to another in seconds (not using relays, mind you)

Yeah, the model Normandy is stupid. It should still work like ME1.

Sgt Stryker wrote...
- Biotic users not becoming exhausted and passing out after firing several powers in a row in the space of a few minutes

I would like it if biotics worked like described in the codex.

Modifié par Jorina Leto, 10 juin 2011 - 10:12 .