239 réponses à ce sujet

[Aimi]

FlyingWalrus wrote...

I disagree. A weapon locking down and not firing without a thermal clip could easily be a safety mechanism. If there's no thermal clip in place, guess where that hot emission is going to vent? Probably into the operator's hand, or a nearby squadmate.

You seem like a sane and sensible human being.  I like you.

[FlyingWalrus]

daqs wrote...

FlyingWalrus wrote...

I disagree. A weapon locking down and not firing without a thermal clip could easily be a safety mechanism. If there's no thermal clip in place, guess where that hot emission is going to vent? Probably into the operator's hand, or a nearby squadmate.

You seem like a sane and sensible human being.  I like you.

I try my best. Much appreciated.

[dreman9999]

FluffyScarf wrote...

How that Geth Shield in ME1 works. Why can they spam that on Insanity. And why does it look so out of place. Ruining the very lore it established. In the first game!

It's called Geth barrier. And I say that it should be held up to everyone who says kintetic barriers can't stop biotic powers.
Why can't biowares say the new shield system is from Geth tech.

[Kakistos_]

ipgd wrote...

I really, really hate the use of the word retcon to mean "any change I don't like". It is an otherwise useful word devalued by rampant misuse. It has a definition, people.

Thermal clips would be a retcon if the narrative of the game established everyone had been using thermal clips all along in ME1. Instead, they explained the transition from fixed heatsinks to thermal clips within the narrative without contradicting anything previously established. That you do not like this explanation does not make it a retcon.

I agree with your first point and my personal opinion of Thermal Clips or any others subjects was never the point of this thread. Yes, Thermal Clips were given their own Codex entry but there are several instances involving them that I believe classifies them as a retcon. 1. Shepard's knowledge of them after waking from death even though they existed only shortly before or after Shepards death. 2. Their ubiquitous presence on Aeia(Jacob's Loyalty mission) when they shouldn't have existed at the time of the crash.(and even if they did why there were any left after years of fighting with ammo now being limited.) 3. They even make their way into Zaeed's ancient gun, Jessie.

[dreman9999]

BlahDog wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Agreed. I wouldn't find Thermal Clips so distasteful if there was a decent explanation for their use. And Ammo Powers are not a skill. I think they should have been integrated into the new modding system.

A decent explanation is this: if you are a normal soldier (not shepard, a normal feild soldier)  would you prefer a long cooldown or a quick reload. Also if ammo powers were there what would the soldier have as his powers. I agree that an ammo mod would be nice but the soldier would be left with next to nothing.

An even better explination is that when your fighting a group of enemies that the lowest solder can turn of your guns multiple times, It better to br able to change the heat clip that wait for it to cooldown.

[dreman9999]

Kakistos_ wrote...

ipgd wrote...

I really, really hate the use of the word retcon to mean "any change I don't like". It is an otherwise useful word devalued by rampant misuse. It has a definition, people.

Thermal clips would be a retcon if the narrative of the game established everyone had been using thermal clips all along in ME1. Instead, they explained the transition from fixed heatsinks to thermal clips within the narrative without contradicting anything previously established. That you do not like this explanation does not make it a retcon.

I agree with your first point and my personal opinion of Thermal Clips or any others subjects was never the point of this thread. Yes, Thermal Clips were given their own Codex entry but there are several instances involving them that I believe classifies them as a retcon. 1. Shepard's knowledge of them after waking from death even though they existed only shortly before or after Shepards death. 2. Their ubiquitous presence on Aeia(Jacob's Loyalty mission) when they shouldn't have existed at the time of the crash.(and even if they did why there were any left after years of fighting with ammo now being limited.) 3. They even make their way into Zaeed's ancient gun, Jessie.

1. Shep is a spectre...Spectres are aften show and givin experimental tech to work with....He was part of the clean up of the geth armada... It's not a stretch that he many of seen and trained with the clip system in it experimental stage.....Also, Miranda could just put the info in Shep internal computer....the one he Hacks things with now.
2.That boggles my mind to hell and back. The could just have ammo drops from the normandy and not have Ammo drops.
3......God damn rifle...

[nitrog100]

I'd go for the hybrid heat sink idea...

[dreman9999]

SamT3N7 wrote...

Did they retcon the fact that the Citadel is a giant mass relay? Because no one has mentioned it since Vigil in ME1.

Because they are trying to hide that fact.

[HTTP 404]

tobynator89 wrote...

Let me tell you something here people, as a person that has actually been in the military (mech inf),

NO COMBAT GAME EVER! NO MATTER HOW REALISTIC IT IS TOUTED TO BE WILL EVER BE 100% REALISTIC OR EVEN CLOSE TO! ALL GAMES WILL MAKE ADJUSTMENTS FOR GAMPLAY REASONS AT THE COST OF MAKING IT LESS REALISTIC.

Sorry, felt like I had to beat this realization into you stupid peoples head with capitals. It's the reason why there are cutscene powers people. At least they made a decent excuse to change it that fit within the lore of the game.

ooook.  
 

Modifié par HTTP 404, 11 juin 2011 - 07:59 .

[HTTP 404]

soo the OP is asking which retcons we would like to retcon?

Id rather there be no retcon-ing anymore.

[LH_deStrado]

BlahDog wrote...
This topic is about retcons and thermal clips are retcons.  The took an established, working system and for no better reason than to force the player to use tactics the devs wanted the player to use, changed the game.

This is not a retcon. It is not the definition of a retcon. A retcon would be to say, "They've been using thermal clips the entire time."

The continuity was changed, but it was changed in real-time. Whether you think it's logical or not is irrelevant. It has to be a RETroactive change to the CONtinuity -- that is to say, changing what happened in the past -- in order to be a retcon.

Spectre_907 wrote...

A retcon would be something like the alpha relay being destroyed by an asteroid in Arrival when we know from  Mass Effect that relays can survive the shockwave of a supernova

Different speeds, different states of matter. Whatever these mass relay shields are, they seem to let relatively low-energy, solid starships (and planetoids) through just fine.


In regards to those advocating a hybrid system, it could very well be that they're using a more powerful weapon or ammo that would prolong traditional heating times -- a more powerful weapon or ammo that can take advantage of the new standard, i.e. heat sinks. This would help to explain why your shields get shredded so fast in ME2. It would also exacerbate a situation like this:

FlyingWalrus wrote...

I disagree. A weapon locking down and not firing without a thermal clip could easily be a safety mechanism. If there's no thermal clip in place, guess where that hot emission is going to vent? Probably into the operator's hand, or a nearby squadmate.

That said, the thermal clip's presence on Aeia could've been explained better, even by something as passing as the months-old wreck of an illegal arms-running ship.

Modifié par LH_deStrado, 11 juin 2011 - 01:18 .

[LH_deStrado]

(double post)

Modifié par LH_deStrado, 11 juin 2011 - 01:16 .

[FataliTensei]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Are there any retcons from Mass Effect 2 or even 1 that you would like rectified in Mass Effect 3? Some such subjects that I would like corrected or elaborated on are Thermal clips, Ammo "Powers" and Genophage fertility. Discuss.

I see where this is going and the answer is No. ME2 > ME1.

ME1 > ME2

[Flashlegend]

FataliTensei wrote...

TexasToast712 wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Are there any retcons from Mass Effect 2 or even 1 that you would like rectified in Mass Effect 3? Some such subjects that I would like corrected or elaborated on are Thermal clips, Ammo "Powers" and Genophage fertility. Discuss.

I see where this is going and the answer is No. ME2 > ME1.

ME1 > ME2

When only looking at Story and plot consistency, then there is no doubt ME1>ME2

[LH_deStrado]

Oh lord, here we go. It was a good run while it lasted.

[tomorrowstation]

Calinstel wrote...

LH_deStrado wrote...

BlahDog wrote...
This topic is about retcons and thermal clips are retcons.  The took an established, working system and for no better reason than to force the player to use tactics the devs wanted the player to use, changed the game.

This is not a retcon. It is not the definition of a retcon. A retcon would be to say, "They've been using thermal clips the entire time."

The continuity was changed, but it was changed in real-time. Whether you think it's logical or not is irrelevant. It has to be a RETroactive change to the CONtinuity -- that is to say, changing what happened in the past -- in order to be a retcon.

This is a retcon.  The Hugo Gurnsback proved that 8 years before ME1, thermal clips were in use.  Funny, ME1 didn't have them.
Zaeed's ancient gun Jessie used them as well.
Just the first example proves it is a retcon.

 
The clips at  Gernsback was a plot hole, which IMO is a legit complaint, but not a retcon.  

A Retcon would be to say that you defeated Saren in ME1 because of all the thermal clips lying around on the Citadel tower.. Retcon changes what we already did to be something else.

Zaeed's gun was probably converted to hold clips, just like the Kassa Locust.

[chester013]

The way thermal clips work makes sense, read the damned codex entry it explains it very clearly. But just for clarity I will dumb it down.

If you can chuck more rounds at an enemy, you win! Thermal clips allow for higher rates of fire. You don't need infinite ammo if your enemy is dead. STFU and deal with it, thermal clips are staying.

The most important thing to remember is that this is a video game, a form of entertainment. It is supposed to be fun and ME2 was a big step up from ME1 game play wise. If you want something that strictly complies with your understanding of the lore (this is BW's creation btw so I as far as I'm concerned they can do what they want) then get out your pen and paper and your D20 and stop cramming these boards up with this faecal matter.

Modifié par chester013, 11 juin 2011 - 02:10 .

[LH_deStrado]

tomorrowstation wrote...

Zaeed's gun was probably converted to hold clips, just like the Kassa Locust.

To be fair, I think Calinstel is talking about the point where Zaeed mentions a fight eight years ago, where Jessie crapped out, in which Zaeed "[doesn't] remember ejecting a clip once." I get the feeling Zaeed was rushed out the door in time for day-one DLC, so it's probable this is just an oversight.

Modifié par LH_deStrado, 11 juin 2011 - 02:14 .

[tomorrowstation]

LH_deStrado wrote...

tomorrowstation wrote...

Zaeed's gun was probably converted to hold clips, just like the Kassa Locust.

To be fair, I think Calinstel is talking about the point where Zaeed mentions a fight eight years ago, where Jessie crapped out, in which Zaeed "[doesn't] remember ejecting a clip once." I get the feeling Zaeed was rushed out the door in time for day-one DLC, so it's probable this is just an oversight.

Fair enough. I stand corrected on that point.

[RoboticWater]

LH_deStrado wrote...
*snip

BlahDog wrote...
This topic is about retcons and thermal clips are retcons.  The took an established, working system and for no better reason than to force the player to use tactics the devs wanted the player to use, changed the game.

This is not a retcon. It is not the definition of a retcon. A retcon would be to say, "They've been using thermal clips the entire time."

The continuity was changed, but it was changed in real-time. Whether you think it's logical or not is irrelevant. It has to be a RETroactive change to the CONtinuity -- that is to say, changing what happened in the past -- in order to be a retcon.

I just want to clarify, that was not me you quoted it was Cainstel

[LH_deStrado]

Sorry, my mistake! And these forums need a "preview post" feature.

Modifié par LH_deStrado, 11 juin 2011 - 02:37 .

[Kakistos_]

What do you think of the powers Reave and Dominate? Since when were Asari able to activly affect nervous systems and manipulate minds?

[dreman9999]

Kakistos_ wrote...

What do you think of the powers Reave and Dominate? Since when were Asari able to activly affect nervous systems and manipulate minds?

1. We don't know what Asari can or can't do....Look at Tal Vasir....When did Asari learn charge and how come more can't Do it?
2. Asari alway had the abiltity to affect the nervous system...It how they mate and mind read....If they can do that...What stopping the more powerful one from going on step forward?

[Kakistos_]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

What do you think of the powers Reave and Dominate? Since when were Asari able to activly affect nervous systems and manipulate minds?

1. We don't know what Asari can or can't do....Look at Tal Vasir....When did Asari learn charge and how come more can't Do it?
2. Asari alway had the abiltity to affect the nervous system...It how they mate and mind read....If they can do that...What stopping the more powerful one from going on step forward?

All biotics are capable of charge, at least at some level. It's not some special magic that only Vangards and Tela Vasir are capable of. It is simply not seen much in gameplay. Yes, all Asari can enter other being's nervous systems but before ME2 they were limited to reading thoughts. Throwing in mind control is exaggerating their abilities a little don't you think? This is kind of a huge factor to consider when dealing with Asari, why was this never mentioned before? Lady Benezia and Tela Vasir would have had us at their mercy were not Reave and Dominate nothing more than "neat" gameplay mechanics similar in function and precedence as Ammo Powers.