239 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Kakistos_ wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

What do you think of the powers Reave and Dominate? Since when were Asari able to activly affect nervous systems and manipulate minds?

1. We don't know what Asari can or can't do....Look at Tal Vasir....When did Asari learn charge and how come more can't Do it?
2. Asari alway had the abiltity to affect the nervous system...It how they mate and mind read....If they can do that...What stopping the more powerful one from going on step forward?

All biotics are capable of charge, at least at some level. It's not some special magic that only Vangards and Tela Vasir are capable of. It is simply not seen much in gameplay. Yes, all Asari can enter other being's nervous systems but before ME2 they were limited to reading thoughts. Throwing in mind control is exaggerating their abilities a little don't you think? This is kind of a huge factor to consider when dealing with Asari, why was this never mentioned before? Lady Benezia and Tela Vasir would have had us at their mercy were not Reave and Dominate nothing more than "neat" gameplay mechanics similar in function and precedence as Ammo Powers.

All Biotics are capable of doing it....It's the mantaing part thats the
problem... Like the biotic bubble on the suicide mission is how long you
can do it. Charge is just changing you own mass and moving forward, But
how long can an averge biotiic keep their own Mass Changed? Sheperd and
Tal visir can do it long enough to move, other may just be able to just
change their own Mass but  for a second., even more can't even get
started with it.
As for was ME1 state, they only stated the basics,
nothing was stated of a limit of how far that when.  For the new biotics
to be retcons because the first mass effect never said it could, It
would be like saying all the new powers are retcon because they were not
in ME1.
What people ned to know is what retcons are....They are
preastablished things that are stated in the story and are changed with
no statement or link to why it was changed.
A ture retcon is Linannabeing in DA2 even if you killed her in DA:O when she was liturally stated to be dead.
Not a new power added to a race is a retcon because it was never stated that they could do that before.
If
Matrich Benezia and Tal Visir never used the powers, it pretty clear
they just did not know how or learned somthing else in it place like
singularity or charge. Not even Sheperd can use every biotic power.

[Hatchetman77]

Thermal clips look really cool when they eject from the gun. Plus it makes combat faster.  I say keep them. 

Modifié par Hatchetman77, 11 juin 2011 - 08:53 .

[Sgt Stryker]

LH_deStrado wrote...

Spectre_907 wrote...

A retcon would be something like the alpha relay being destroyed by an asteroid in Arrival when we know from  Mass Effect that relays can survive the shockwave of a supernova

Different speeds, different states of matter. Whatever these mass relay shields are, they seem to let relatively low-energy, solid starships (and planetoids) through just fine.

I hate going off-topic, but I can't leave this one alone. Is it ever established how far away this supernova was when it went off? Sure, a supernova releases energy that is orders of magnitude higher than an asteroid impact, but consider an atomic bomb versus a hand grenade. There is no doubt that an atomic bomb is more powerful than a grenade, but I would rather have an atomic bomb go off 500 miles away, than have a grenade explode at my feet.

All of a sudden, I have this strange urge to revisit Noveria and listen to that Mu relay dialogue again...

[tjzsf]

BlahDog wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Agreed. I wouldn't find Thermal Clips so distasteful if there was a decent explanation for their use. And Ammo Powers are not a skill. I think they should have been integrated into the new modding system.

A decent explanation is this: if you are a normal soldier (not shepard, a normal feild soldier)  would you prefer a long cooldown or a quick reload. Also if ammo powers were there what would the soldier have as his powers. I agree that an ammo mod would be nice but the soldier would be left with next to nothing.

Having to cooldown if I'm too foolish to keep track of my heat guage is far superior to having my gun turn into a stick when I run out of clips.

Best to do would be to have your current clip regenerate shots after you don't use it for a while.

[Rolling Flame]

Why is everyone so hung up about Thermal Clips on Aeia? Yes, they shouldn't have been there, but, at the end of the day, was BioWare going to bother with giving the enemies there weapons that used the old cooldown system? For one mission?

Just accept it for gameplay purposes, and in your head pretend that they are using the old weapon systems.

[Kakistos_]

dreman9999 wrote...
All Biotics are capable of doing it....It's the mantaing part thats the
problem... Like the biotic bubble on the suicide mission is how long you
can do it. Charge is just changing you own mass and moving forward, But
how long can an averge biotiic keep their own Mass Changed? Sheperd and
Tal visir can do it long enough to move, other may just be able to just
change their own Mass but  for a second., even more can't even get
started with it.
As for was ME1 state, they only stated the basics,
nothing was stated of a limit of how far that when.  For the new biotics
to be retcons because the first mass effect never said it could, It
would be like saying all the new powers are retcon because they were not
in ME1.
What people ned to know is what retcons are....They are
preastablished things that are stated in the story and are changed with
no statement or link to why it was changed.
A ture retcon is Linannabeing in DA2 even if you killed her in DA:O when she was liturally stated to be dead.
Not a new power added to a race is a retcon because it was never stated that they could do that before.
If
Matrich Benezia and Tal Visir never used the powers, it pretty clear
they just did not know how or learned somthing else in it place like
singularity or charge. Not even Sheperd can use every biotic power.

By your defnition of retcon, would you not agree that the sudden ability of Asari to control minds qualifies? Immersing ones self in another's consciousness, with great effort, is a far cry from throwing a biotic/mental control projectile at someone is it not? Asari could never control minds. This has never been mentioned or written anywhere other than the descriptions of the powers in question. If the Asari could control minds then the entire galaxy would be different. Every other race would fear them for their power and either avoid them or go through great lengths to protect their minds. Their ability may even be considered as a counter measure to Reaper Indoctrination. Can't you see the giant hole this is tearing?

[Kakistos_]

Rolling Flame wrote...

Why is everyone so hung up about Thermal Clips on Aeia? Yes, they shouldn't have been there, but, at the end of the day, was BioWare going to bother with giving the enemies there weapons that used the old cooldown system? For one mission?

Just accept it for gameplay purposes, and in your head pretend that they are using the old weapon systems.

This I cannot do. I am a gamer with standards and I have always held Bioware on a pedestal for their work. I loved both ME 1 & 2 but these are topics that I think should be addressed in ME3.

[Kakistos_]

HTTP 404 wrote...

soo the OP is asking which retcons we would like to retcon?

Id rather there be no retcon-ing anymore.

Essentially yes. I think it would be nice to see ME3 get back on track with the lore.

[essarr71]

Speaking of retcon...It's been a month since he posted, but I'm sure he'll see that response.

Modifié par essarr71, 08 juillet 2011 - 11:37 .

[tobynator89]

ZOMBIE THREAD!

[Kilshrek]

*ahem*

Modifié par Kilshrek, 09 juillet 2011 - 03:58 .

[dreman9999]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

What would you prefer? Just waiting and you can use your gun again or running out of "ammo" and never fire again.
And the way the thermal clips work dosen't make sense. Only a hybrid system would make sense.

You're right, a hybrid system would make more sense in terms of the lore. However, a lot of people seem to believe that the current system (no recharging heat sinks, need to scrounge for "ammo") is better of gameplay. I used to be against this too, but after some thought, I decided that the best way to reconcile gameplay with lore is to not take the gameplay as a 100% accurate indicator of the "reality" of the MEverse. Simply put: Gameplay-land =/= Lore-land.

In Lore-land, I see thermal clips existing alongside the old-style fixed heatsinks, because both systems have their respective advantages. The detachable heat sinks would be useful for intense close-range battles where high volume of fire is vital, while the ME1-style heat sinks would be useful for drawn-out siege-style battles where supply lines may be tenuous.

In gameplay-land, we're limited to thermal clips that never cool down on their own (violating thermodynamics, but that's another story), because that's what Bioware gave us in the form of the game engine.

Unacceptable. If Bioware is going to hire and pay great writers to create the backbone and organs of an entire universe then why ignore them? Throwing around retcons and contradictions is a lazy and irresponsable way to, some would say,  "improve" gameplay. Is it truly out of the question to meet the writers half way and manufacture a solution that works inside the lore, especially when we are talking about futuristic tech?

If you look into ME1 lore you'll see it's not a retcon.

For one, ME2 are harder hitting at base damage, a ME2 gun with no ammo powers and mods does more damage than ME1 gun with no mods and attack powers. Plus, ME2 guns have bonuses ageinst defencese at base damage.

Second, the more damage the ME1 guns do per shot the faster the guns over heat. The guns stopping when it over heats is just a safety measure to make sure the gun does not get damaged from the heat sink and the gun to be about to be at a low enough tempemature to cooldown. ME2 guns don't have that problem, because of ejectible heat clips. They don't have to worry about guns getting too damage to fire due to the heat of the clips or that they have to limit the damage so they can make sure the the gun does not get too hot to cooldown.

Finally, gameplay wise it's more challenging. I can understand why Bioware did heat clips because If anyone had a widow with no ammo limit, it would brake the game. Everything would be dead before it could start fighting.

[dreman9999]

neubourn wrote...

The retcon on thermal clips has more to do with the fact Shepard is revived and automatically knows what a "thermal clip" is.

Ha, even that can be explain. He's/She's a Spectre. It's been established from ME1 the Spectres get access of the lates tech....First!
If heat clips were teasted, Sheperd would have access to it before it was out with the rest of the military. The only question is......When did they started testing out heat clips. Before Sheps death or after.
Or It can be implanted in Shep's  internal computer,(Shep's a cyborg.) like the deteils on Hacking terminals....as a soldier.

[Praetor Knight]

HTTP 404 wrote...

soo the OP is asking which retcons we would like to retcon?

Id rather there be no retcon-ing anymore.

Hey, I missed this thread when it was going strong some 28 days ago or so, but I agree with HTTP 404, even if I'm personally not clear on where the retcons (ugh, puppy died ) are in ME2.

[dreman9999]

You ever get the point in your life that you become so predictable, that people can do things just to draw you in just because..... I think I'm at that point....
First 5 sec of reading this topic and I just rush in head first and not even notice it's a necro......This is sad.

[dreman9999]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

soo the OP is asking which retcons we would like to retcon?

Id rather there be no retcon-ing anymore.

Hey, I missed this thread when it was going strong some 28 days ago or so, but I agree with HTTP 404, even if I'm personally not clear on where the retcons (ugh, puppy died ) are in ME2.

Before we start this agian, At least could you guys understand what a retcon is. It just something that change with no explaination or goes ageints pre establites lore with no explination.....
The only retcons in ME2 was with the Gurnsback and Verren being protected from powers.
Everything else is fine.

[Praetor Knight]

dreman9999 wrote...

*snip*

As Murphy says in Robocop 2, "It's the thought that counts," and besides, we're only human!

[DxWill10]

ipgd wrote...

I really, really hate the use of the word retcon to mean "any change I don't like". It is an otherwise useful word devalued by rampant misuse. It has a definition, people.

Thermal clips would be a retcon if the narrative of the game established everyone had been using thermal clips all along in ME1. Instead, they explained the transition from fixed heatsinks to thermal clips within the narrative without contradicting anything previously established. That you do not like this explanation does not make it a retcon.

QFT people.  Complaining doesn't change anything

[The Spamming Troll]

i couldnt care less about lore. i dont know why more people arent as dissapointed with TCs as some of the rest of us not just becasu its inconsistant withthe lore. the easiest most basic ammo system ever created is TCs. to me, that doesnt show great development. its pathetic to me......i mean they have to estrict ammo counts like giving the infiltrator 11 shots, just because the game is soo easy they have to challenege us by severly limiting our ammo counts.

enemy protections, and 11 shots, thats biowares idea of creating challenge.

i could do better.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 09 juillet 2011 - 02:06 .

[dreman9999]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i couldnt care less about lore. i dont know why more people arent as dissapointed with TCs as some of the rest of us not just becasu its inconsistant withthe lore. the easiest most basic ammo system ever created is TCs. to me, that doesnt show great development. its pathetic to me......i mean they have to estrict ammo counts like giving the infiltrator 11 shots, just because the game is soo easy they have to challenege us by severly limiting our ammo counts.

enemy protections, and 11 shots, thats biowares idea of creating challenge.

i could do better.

You don't play alot of shooters don't you? Sniper rifle have alway been overpoweredand if one had one with no ammo limit, the game would be too easy...in any game. The only wayaround this would be to have more snipers to fight or enemies with stronger defence.....but the just inflates the length of the game. And the widow is only avalible to Solders and Infiltrators, both classes with many ways to fight. So what it I have 11 shots in my widow, I can sneak up with may other guns and freeze my enemies.

[SAE100]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i couldnt care less about lore. i dont know why more people arent as dissapointed with TCs as some of the rest of us not just becasu its inconsistant withthe lore. the easiest most basic ammo system ever created is TCs. to me, that doesnt show great development. its pathetic to me......i mean they have to estrict ammo counts like giving the infiltrator 11 shots, just because the game is soo easy they have to challenege us by severly limiting our ammo counts.

enemy protections, and 11 shots, thats biowares idea of creating challenge.

i could do better.

Really? Then gather a team and make a TPS-Mod for UT or HL and proove your skills.

About the retcon:
- Kinetic Barriers where retconned, due to the lore, they don´t protect against punches, explosions, etc, not that I care that much about. Probably they were improved in the years between ME1 and 2, but it´s not mentioned, afair.

Other than that I can´t really think of any retcons. Just some stupid things/things i don´t like, like the general waste of space everywhere, the stupidly big doors, tracer rounds that destroy the "mini-railgun-feeling", a holographic drone pet, ... I like the game, I don´t want to list all the little things that bugged me.

[JayhartRIC]

I don't see how the loremongers can want ME3 to change the lore. ME2 thermal clips were not a retcon. Bioware tried to explain thermal clips by adding to the lore. Jacob's loyalty mission is a plot hole (or gameplay/story segregation), not a retcon. Regardless of what is noticed in gameplay, thermal clips according to the lore as it stands now are demonstratively better; changing it back to overheating for ME3 is a retcon.

[Praetor Knight]

SAE100 wrote...

About the retcon:
- Kinetic Barriers where retconned, due to the lore, they don´t protect against punches, explosions, etc, not that I care that much about. Probably they were improved in the years between ME1 and 2, but it´s not mentioned, afair.

However there is Hardening in ME1 armor and there are armor mods from ME1 that can account for the effectiveness of Shields against physics attacks, including biotics.

So we know that physics attacks in ME1could be made less effective with Hardening. And there were a few Armor Mods available also.

One is Hardened Weave that explains that it provides "a complex filament network of element zero microcores combined with advanced firewall technology provide[ing] protection against both biotic and tech attacks"

A second Armor Mod is Shock Absorbers, whose description states, "Installing micro-gravimetric emitters into a combat suit artificially increases mass, providing protection against concussive force delivered by explosives, high impact ammo and biotic attacks such as Lift or Throw"

We also have the Exoskeleton and the Combat Exoskeleton to further augment body armors.

So what if it is simply a matter of facing enemies who have adopted such tech to boost their shields and body armor, in ME2?

I mean, Shepard and the companions have a permanent buff (I'd say from gameplay mechanics standpoint , and I like that Shepard only gets staggered in ME2 anyway), so I imagine that having enemies with deplete-able buffs in the form of Shields and the Armor bar is an improvement over potentially having a permanent buff against biotics.

Edit: ME1 also has Energized Weave.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:34 .

[The Spamming Troll]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i couldnt care less about lore. i dont know why more people arent as dissapointed with TCs as some of the rest of us not just becasu its inconsistant withthe lore. the easiest most basic ammo system ever created is TCs. to me, that doesnt show great development. its pathetic to me......i mean they have to estrict ammo counts like giving the infiltrator 11 shots, just because the game is soo easy they have to challenege us by severly limiting our ammo counts.

enemy protections, and 11 shots, thats biowares idea of creating challenge.

i could do better.

You don't play alot of shooters don't you? Sniper rifle have alway been overpoweredand if one had one with no ammo limit, the game would be too easy...in any game. The only wayaround this would be to have more snipers to fight or enemies with stronger defence.....but the just inflates the length of the game. And the widow is only avalible to Solders and Infiltrators, both classes with many ways to fight. So what it I have 11 shots in my widow, I can sneak up with may other guns and freeze my enemies.

did i propose limitless ammo somewhere? i understand limits, but the point is that ME2s combat needs to give a sniper centric class 11 shots in order for their to be balance. i dont have a problem with limitations but creating a game that HAS TO limit me that much, is a pretty poorly designed game, isnt it?

fallout3 is a good example of a shooter/rpg hybrid and it basically has limitless ammo. whtever that means.

[littlezack]

On further thought, I retract my statement.

Modifié par littlezack, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:37 .