239 réponses à ce sujet

[JonathonPR]

In ME1 the Genophage caused stillbirth and fatal development defects. In ME2 it altered fertility rates to reduce the chance of pregnancy. In ME1 Wrex mentions seeing piles of dead fetuses. In ME2 it is retconed to prevent development.

Modifié par JonathonPR, 25 décembre 2011 - 05:53 .

[Aimi]

JonathonPR wrote...

In ME1 the Genophage caused stillbirth and fatal development defects. In ME2 it altered fertility rates to reduce the chance of pregnancy.

It still caused stillbirth and fatal development defects in ME2. Mordin: "No, Shepard! Altered fertility, prevented fetal development of nervous system!" (italics mine) Stillbirth is repeatedly alluded to, especially by the Weyrloc Clanspeaker and Okeer. 

The reason Mordin doesn't consider himself to have killed or murdered is presumably because these defects to alter viable fertility levels (i.e. numbers of children without such defects) prevented these krogan fetuses from achieving awareness or sentience.

[Bleachrude]

Mordin is a salarian and salarians also lay eggs.

The difference might be that naturally, not all salarian eggs hatch successfully so the fact that not all krogan eggs are viable might not be seen as a bad thing whereas for krogans who had each egg equalling one born krogan, this was a huge change....

[Sgt Stryker]

Regarding the Genophage: it sounds like it's ultimately a question of "when do you consider krogan life to begin?"

[Chuvvy]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Regarding the Genophage: it sounds like it's ultimately a question of "when do you consider krogan life to begin?"

Well I can't see how this could end poorly.

[Aimi]

Slidell505 wrote...

Well I can't see how this could end poorly.

I already regret bringing it up.

[Bleachrude]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Regarding the Genophage: it sounds like it's ultimately a question of "when do you consider krogan life to begin?"

Yep.
For salarians, another egg-laying race, they only consider life to begin at the moment of hatching or even later depending on what stages a salarian goes through (might actually resemble the life cycle of frogs/toads).

For krogans, being reptiles and given tichanka's high lethality, eggs might have been seen as "krogans" as soon as they were in the nest.

[didymos1120]

JonathonPR wrote...

In ME1 the Genophage caused stillbirth and fatal development defects. In ME2 it altered fertility rates to reduce the chance of pregnancy.

Yes, it altered them by way of fatal developmental defects that resulted in stillbirth.  ME1 told us the "what". ME2 told us the "how".

In ME1 Wrex mentions seeing piles of dead fetuses.

No, he doesn't.  That is mentioned in ME2, however, by the Weyrloc Clanspeaker:

"No, human! You understand nothing! You have not seen the piles of children that never lived!"

All Wrex said in ME1 was that just a few in a thousand survive through to birth.

[Kakistos_]

Do we know that Krogan lay eggs?

[Armass81]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Do we know that Krogan lay eggs?

They are reptiles, duh.

[Kakistos_]

Armass81 wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Do we know that Krogan lay eggs?

They are reptiles, duh.

Echidna's are mammels but They lay eggs. There are many species of reptiles that give live birth. Also, THE KROGAN ARE ALIENS. They may look like reptiles to you but they evolved on a completely different planet and I'm sure they have vastly different characteristics than terran reptiles. Go read a book.

[DiebytheSword]

DCarter wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

Let me tell you something here people, as a person that has actually been in the military (mech inf),

NO COMBAT GAME EVER! NO MATTER HOW REALISTIC IT IS TOUTED TO BE WILL EVER BE 100% REALISTIC OR EVEN CLOSE TO! ALL GAMES WILL MAKE ADJUSTMENTS FOR GAMPLAY REASONS AT THE COST OF MAKING IT LESS REALISTIC.

Sorry, felt like I had to beat this realization into you stupid peoples head with capitals. It's the reason why there are cutscene powers people. At least they made a decent excuse to change it that fit within the lore of the game.

Glad you employed your military expertise to tell us this. Now i can sleep safely know theirs no husks under my bed. 

Whatever retcons happened betweeen mass effect and mass effect 2 i fear there will be far greater ones to come in mass effect 3. 

No thank you for snarking a member of the armed forces for applying his expertise to show people that demanding realism is nothing more than entitled whining.  Now I can safely sleep at night knowing ungrateful people like you exist.

[Sgt Stryker]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Do we know that Krogan lay eggs?

Do we know that krogan give live birth?

[frozngecko]

It is not really a retcon of ME1....but a recent retcon...I'd like them to explain how the "switchblade" works in the ME universe.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

If you want to talk about realism, let's consider this:

At the start of ME1, Shepard should have died immediately after being hit 3 or so times by a Geth drone (like Jenkins was). I actually couldn't believe how ridiculous the contrast between his death scene and the gameplay that immediately followed was. Jenkins gets hit 3 times and dies immediately. Shepard? 400 times, meh. Regenerates too. Mmm...realism...

Gameplay/story segregation. Shepard can take so many hits from a geth drone in gameplay for the same reason that it takes several seconds of real time to travel to another star system, as opposed to several days according to the lore.

Big difference.

One is required for smooth gameply, other isn't.

You can have games where you are killed by 1 bullet and games where you can can take a lot. You can also have cutscenes that acknowledge that or not. You can have cutscenes take things into accout.

Gameplay and story are only as segreagted as you make em. 

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 29 décembre 2011 - 12:35 .

[N7Raider]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Are there any retcons from Mass Effect 2 or even 1 that you would like rectified in Mass Effect 3? Some such subjects that I would like corrected or elaborated on are Thermal clips, Ammo "Powers" and Genophage fertility. Discuss.

Thermal clips and ammo powers...ugh it's a game, they wanted to make combat more intense so they incorporated an ammo system, every class can't have ammo powers because than it would be unbalanced and the soldier class would be beyond useless.  As for the genophage they always said it only affected the probablity of viable pregnancies.  They said some died in still birth some didn't even make it that far, I see no retcon with the genophage.  

[Kakistos_]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Do we know that Krogan lay eggs?

Do we know that krogan give live birth?

I think it is hinted at but still not sure, thats why I'm asking.

[Kakistos_]

N7Raider wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Are there any retcons from Mass Effect 2 or even 1 that you would like rectified in Mass Effect 3? Some such subjects that I would like corrected or elaborated on are Thermal clips, Ammo "Powers" and Genophage fertility. Discuss.

Thermal clips and ammo powers...ugh it's a game, they wanted to make combat more intense so they incorporated an ammo system, every class can't have ammo powers because than it would be unbalanced and the soldier class would be beyond useless.  As for the genophage they always said it only affected the probablity of viable pregnancies.  They said some died in still birth some didn't even make it that far, I see no retcon with the genophage.  

Yes, it is a game and consistancy is an important part of any game. It is not that the ammo system was changed, it's how it was changed.

[Foolsfolly]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Well, I did hate the Council's back-sliding of the Reaper threat. That was a stupid decision. All to railroad us into joining Cerberus. *sigh*

I hope that they have actually been building in secret and didn't just take some stupid pills.

Cerberus is a good catch-all word to describe the retroactive continuity in the series.

In the first game they were completely different than they appear in ME2 which is completely different than they're protrayed in the books and comics and now in ME3 they're with the Reapers (which makes no sense at all).

[Sgt Stryker]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

If you want to talk about realism, let's consider this:

At the start of ME1, Shepard should have died immediately after being hit 3 or so times by a Geth drone (like Jenkins was). I actually couldn't believe how ridiculous the contrast between his death scene and the gameplay that immediately followed was. Jenkins gets hit 3 times and dies immediately. Shepard? 400 times, meh. Regenerates too. Mmm...realism...

Gameplay/story segregation. Shepard can take so many hits from a geth drone in gameplay for the same reason that it takes several seconds of real time to travel to another star system, as opposed to several days according to the lore.

Big difference.

One is required for smooth gameply, other isn't.

You can have games where you are killed by 1 bullet and games where you can can take a lot. You can also have cutscenes that acknowledge that or not. You can have cutscenes take things into accout.

Gameplay and story are only as segreagted as you make em. 

That's certainly true, and in Jenkins' case, the cutscene actually does take his kinetic barriers into account. I seem to recall that drone firing continuously at an exposed target for around a second or slightly longer. Plenty of time to take down his barriers and kill him. Also, I'm curious as to what difficulty Boiny Bunny was playing on, and if he was playing a NG+ character.

[Last Vizard]

I'm into history(ancient and modern) and the best stuff is about warfare/logistics, re-introducing ammo as a logistical concern isn't a very bright idea considering supply lines need to span the gap between worlds. food/water/medical supplies will always be an issue however ME universe had made a massive leap removing weapon ammo from logistics (plus ammo weighs alot, saves the soldiers backs and leaves room for other specialist equipment or food/water/medical supplies).

For a military to accept this Achillies heel again doesn't make sense at all, the M-16 was americas weapon of choice years ago and it was only semi-auto and they even reduced round size to allow ammo clips to carry more bullets... you can't tell me space faring militaries would adopt (ammo) again.

When troops are cut-off from supply lines they run out of ammo long before food becomes an issue, remove the need for ammo and as long as the troops can eat they stay in the field, being cut-off is a greater risk in ME universe due to the relays being used to travel from system to system. Reapers usuall tactics involve shutting down supply lines by stopping relay traffic from industrial - agricultural/minning worlds.

I find it hard to believe the military is as stupid as the council however my very own government does put fluoride in drinking water and this is toxic waste from the steel smelting industry(used in rat poison and such too)... maybe ME universe has a corrupt military complex that after finding out that humans used to have this thing called "ammo" they wanted that cash cow too?

[DxWill10]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

If you want to talk about realism, let's consider this:

At the start of ME1, Shepard should have died immediately after being hit 3 or so times by a Geth drone (like Jenkins was). I actually couldn't believe how ridiculous the contrast between his death scene and the gameplay that immediately followed was. Jenkins gets hit 3 times and dies immediately. Shepard? 400 times, meh. Regenerates too. Mmm...realism...

Gameplay/story segregation. Shepard can take so many hits from a geth drone in gameplay for the same reason that it takes several seconds of real time to travel to another star system, as opposed to several days according to the lore.

Big difference.

One is required for smooth gameply, other isn't.

You can have games where you are killed by 1 bullet and games where you can can take a lot. You can also have cutscenes that acknowledge that or not. You can have cutscenes take things into accout.

Gameplay and story are only as segreagted as you make em. 

And you make them according to what would be the most financially successful while being as fun as possible to the customers.  Not by making them as realistic as possible.

Modifié par DxWill10, 12 janvier 2012 - 01:00 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

jreezy wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Are there any retcons from Mass Effect 2 or even 1 that you would like rectified in Mass Effect 3? Some such subjects that I would like corrected or elaborated on are Thermal clips, Ammo "Powers" and Genophage fertility. Discuss.

Since when was the Genophage a retcon?

I"m para phrasing here but it got retconed like this:

Back in ME: Wrex: 99% of the babies born ended in still birth IF they even got that far.

In ME2: Mordin: NO! It doesn't kill babies just stops furtilization

the thing is an egg has to be fertilized in order for A) a natural abortion to take place or have still birth. Mordin retconed it or in the heat of arguing with Shep Wrex had a colossal error in what was what. Unless 3 brings it back up and outright says Wrex was wrong and he finds that out then I'm still going with Mordin retconed it. Kind of like what types of ships helped in the end battle back in ME in ME2 during the reporting on the matter entire ships are removed from death and service during that fight as well so they got retconed too.