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[Dave666]

daqs wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

You know what the worst thing is?  The chances for them actually mentioning the Prothean Cipher are actually in minus numbers.  Why?  Because they have swept Feros under the rug.  Its not even mentioned in the comic (which is all that PS3 users have to rely on), and there's no way that they'd introduce it in ME:3 when a third of ME:3 players may have no idea what a Prothean Cipher is. 

Honestly, I'm not broke up about that.  The Cipher was a pretty gross idea - a necessary handwave in the context of the ME1 story, but definitely something with ramifications that probably oughtn't be explored too deeply.  

Why on earth not?  It could have been the perfect opportunity to see the Reapers in action in the last Cycle.  A chance to study them, observe their tactics, see how many Reapers attacked each planet (which would give us a bench mark for how many Reapers we might have to face in total) and allow us to set up a strategy for defending planets by making sure enough ships are present.  We could have seen what kind of ground forces they deployed, or how indoctrinated were used.

So many things could have been learned from Beacons.

[ArizaelCZ]

FrozenFire42 wrote...

Anyone else hoping for a War of the Worlds-esque twist ending? I mean, the reapers are at least part organic, they could be murdered by bacteria...Or better yet, a Scary Door-esque twist ending. "In the end, it was not guns or bombs that defeated the reapers, but that humblest of all God's creatures, the Tyrannosaurus Rex." hehe

You meant Tyrannosaurus Wrex?

[Aimi]

Dave666 wrote...

Why on earth not?  It could have been the perfect opportunity to see the Reapers in action in the last Cycle.  A chance to study them, observe their tactics, see how many Reapers attacked each planet (which would give us a bench mark for how many Reapers we might have to face in total) and allow us to set up a strategy for defending planets by making sure enough ships are present.  We could have seen what kind of ground forces they deployed, or how indoctrinated were used.

So many things could have been learned from Beacons.

Yeah, sure, we could've gotten some nice intel from the Beacons, assuming they recorded that information - which gets to the problem, actually: the fact that the Cipher works by somehow getting Shep to "think like a Prothean" through some "ancestral memory" nonsense transmitted via the Thorian.  It's like the godawful hellspawn of Weber and Alistair Crowley.  It was necessary - because any archaeologist worth her salt would've told you that the Beacon artifacts would be practically impossible to interpret without actually being a Prothean - but intellectually horrifying - because of what "thinking like a Prothean" entails.

If you think about it, this is kind of a point that the series has been tiptoeing around, even in the case of the Reapers: how do other species view their environment?  Why do they do what they do?  Everything that asari, turians, salarians, or krogan have talked about in the games thus far has been pretty easy to relate to human experience.  The Reapers' motivations have barely been addressed; in ME1, they settled for "we exist on another plane and you could never comprehend our reasons" and left it at that.  So, I mean, why shouldn't a Prothean have different imperatives - hell, even going down to biological imperatives - from a human, or different motivations?  (As they apparently did, otherwise Shep wouldn't have needed the Cipher.)  How the hell can you get somebody to think like somebody else?  (Psychological unobtainium, as it were.)  What happens to Shep's psyche with the Cipher in there?  Trying to think like another human being is hard enough on somebody's mind, so an entirely different species...yeesh.  It's not as though it's an on/off switch that lets Shep think like a Prothean whenever she wants, because there are no neurological on/off switches.

Instead of actually facing any of these questions, the Cipher is just a handwave that turns the Protheans into a Weberian planet of hats that can be understood through some mystical plant that grew over their corpses, and Shep into some kind of demigoddess for being able to understand them without losing her frigging mind.  

[TobyHasEyes]

Dry your eyes mate

[Flashlegend]

daqs wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Why on earth not?  It could have been the perfect opportunity to see the Reapers in action in the last Cycle.  A chance to study them, observe their tactics, see how many Reapers attacked each planet (which would give us a bench mark for how many Reapers we might have to face in total) and allow us to set up a strategy for defending planets by making sure enough ships are present.  We could have seen what kind of ground forces they deployed, or how indoctrinated were used.

So many things could have been learned from Beacons.

Yeah, sure, we could've gotten some nice intel from the Beacons, assuming they recorded that information - which gets to the problem, actually: the fact that the Cipher works by somehow getting Shep to "think like a Prothean" through some "ancestral memory" nonsense transmitted via the Thorian.  It's like the godawful hellspawn of Weber and Alistair Crowley.  It was necessary - because any archaeologist worth her salt would've told you that the Beacon artifacts would be practically impossible to interpret without actually being a Prothean - but intellectually horrifying - because of what "thinking like a Prothean" entails.

If you think about it, this is kind of a point that the series has been tiptoeing around, even in the case of the Reapers: how do other species view their environment?  Why do they do what they do?  Everything that asari, turians, salarians, or krogan have talked about in the games thus far has been pretty easy to relate to human experience.  The Reapers' motivations have barely been addressed; in ME1, they settled for "we exist on another plane and you could never comprehend our reasons" and left it at that.  So, I mean, why shouldn't a Prothean have different imperatives - hell, even going down to biological imperatives - from a human, or different motivations?  (As they apparently did, otherwise Shep wouldn't have needed the Cipher.)  How the hell can you get somebody to think like somebody else?  (Psychological unobtainium, as it were.)  What happens to Shep's psyche with the Cipher in there?  Trying to think like another human being is hard enough on somebody's mind, so an entirely different species...yeesh.  It's not as though it's an on/off switch that lets Shep think like a Prothean whenever she wants, because there are no neurological on/off switches.

Instead of actually facing any of these questions, the Cipher is just a handwave that turns the Protheans into a Weberian planet of hats that can be understood through some mystical plant that grew over their corpses, and Shep into some kind of demigoddess for being able to understand them without losing her frigging mind.  

This is one of the greatest problems I had with ME2.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 09 juin 2011 - 10:47 .

[Aimi]

Flashlegend wrote...

This is one of the greatest problems I had with ME2.

Ha.  I guess I deserved that.

[WOLF_00]

the method for defeating the Reapers is mystery and it is one of the reason why everyone wants the game.
But I am thinking about their Tech more than their number. There is no fleet have Tech equivalent to Reapers, moreover, there is no data regarding their forces; like how many Dreadnought Reapers? how do organic resist indoctrination?
To make thing easier to understand; I tried to put Reapers strength and weaknesses

Reaper Strength
1. The most technological advance in term of everything; in reality all organic technology are based on their technology. So the technology is on Reapers side
2. Capable of controlling organic mind. Indoctrination of organic mind is very effective and still there is way organic can tell difference between indoctrinated or non-indoctrinated.
3. There have supreme shield and weaponry and we should not forget their number. Imagine Sovereign when it was smashing on some of spaceship that guard the Citadel like someone step over a bug! Imagine a horde of them charging with all of their power, toward fleet of mini-coppers spaceship!
4. They know everything about the Civ they will harvest; and there is no data regarding Reapers. So every Civ will desperately fight the unknown, in addition, info is power and Reapers know the importance of gathering all info about the Civ before attacking them. This one of the reason why their will initial attack on Earth will led to success in ME3.
5. Diversity and conflict between organic species make them weak and vulnerable at the time of Reaper attack. The Racini War last for; correct me if I am wrong; 1000 years. Genphage on Krogan has tweak them to the minimum effectiveness and more...

Weaknesses (no spoilers or predications)
1. They don't have mechanism to locate and pursuit a target in space and that helped Shepard in ME1.
2. They can be destroyed if they were overwhelmed.
3. They are weak if they get infiltrated and husk don't create that much of challenge. and that make it easy to reach to their Core and destroy it.
4. The Weapon which was found by Cerberus, although TIM claimed they could not find way to use it; in other word; they don't have its Manual XD
5. And we should not forget our hero Commander Shepard!!

Please comment

Modifié par WOLF_00, 09 juin 2011 - 11:00 .

[Aimi]

WOLF_00 wrote...

4. The Weapon which was found by Cerberus, although TIM claimed they could not find way to use it; in other word; they don't have its Manual XD

He said it was defunct, meaning it doesn't work anymore.  You know, a fairly reasonable condition for a thirty-seven million year old gun to be in.

[Paula Deen]

Hathur wrote...

Mass Effect isn't the first science fiction to pose a seemingly unstoppable super species bent on galactic annihilation against species who were vastly inferior from a technological perspective.

In many of those sci-fi novels, great sacrifices are made to survive or win... be it the loss of trillions of lives, entire star systems or a desperate flight to distant ends of the galaxy where one can hide and hope to have some small segment of your species survive. Other times, deus ex machina occurs... some mysterious unknown species makes it's presence known and while they don't offer complete salvation, they offer some knowledge or advice that helps the victims survive the coming apocalypse (we saw this in ME1 on Illos in the form of Vigil, for example).

I wouldn't be surprised that if by the end of ME3 the death toll will reach the trillions and numerous star systems are either wiped out or simply uninhabitable. Wouldn't be surprised either if an entire species or two were brought to their knees and on the brink of extinction.

Yeah, but it's one of the few science fiction stories with a significant degree of realism in such a situation. Independence Day, for instance, is a tragedy. Because the aliens just send a second force to bombard Earth for orbit.  Or Battle: LA. Humanity is still screwed.

Halo is probably the best example, but is also a deconstruction of this "genre". Despite humanity's best efforts, massive sacrifices, innovations, and tactics, they still lose nearly every battle. Even with the discovery of Halo, that's just one more thing humanity needs to do to survive. In the end, the only reason humanity survived to rebuild is because the Covenant broke into a civil war, with the winning side realizing the truth behind the whole war and the Halos in the first place.

Here, the Reapers obviously have no such problems. There doesn't seem to be any lost superweapons (even if there are, it STILL wouldn't be nearly enough to win). The galaxy is fighting a far greater discrepency than the UNSC ever did in Halo. They don't have the advantage of better tactics or time.

And, to top if off, the second most powerful fleet (or the most powerful, depending on the ME1 ending) was wiped out without much of a fight.

The Thanix Cannon isn't enough, obviously. If it were, then the Alliance wouldn't have been wiped out so quickly and easily. And that's assuming a significant number of ships even HAVE it.

[Harorrd]

i have a sad feeling that its going to be Prothean technology that saves the galaxy

* IN ME they said the suvviving Protheans disapeard,
* IN ME2 they said the sun are loosing hydrogen faster than it should
* IN ME3 the Protheans have been harvesting Hydrogen for over a long time as fuel into a super machine, and this thing will end the war

[sp0ck 06]

As long as its not a "virus infects Reapers and instantly spreads to all of them, rendering them helpless," im cool. Or the Army of the Dead from LOTR movies (not books). Laaaammme

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I think it's going to be much easier than most people think.  Here's my thread from a couple days ago.

In short: A Reaper fleet cannot be stopped in space.  If Reapers were really all about exterminating =all= life, they would just camp out in the asteroid belt and push planet destroying asteroids into target worlds.  Then pick off any starship that managed to escape, since it wouldn't go far thanks to the closed mass effect gates. 

We know the Reapers are coming to the Earth's surface.  Why?  This makes no sense.  It's like sitting in a armored battle tank and facing off with a legion of soldiers from Imperial Rome.  Do you machine gun them from the inside of your tank or do you get out and fight them one on one.  The Reapers are essentially getting out of their tanks and going to fight the legion at a disadvantage. 

This time, the gates are openned.  This gives the organics an opportunity to fight back... By bringing as many organics to Earth as possible and landing them there (accepting many will be lost before they reach the Earth), where the Reapers are sorting through the individual species and are at a huge disadvantage.

[Fiery Phoenix]

All of you, one thing to note/remember: Casey told GI that there won't be anything like a kill-all-Reapers button. They asked him this exact question and that's how he answered it. So it's more than just that.

[Annihilator27]

Is there a thread with a compiled list of the QA?

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

The hanar hold the key to defeating the reapers.

[Medhia Nox]

Bah - I say, cure the genophage - release the Krogan.

RinpocheSchnozberry - I think they're looking for Shepard. They can't just bomb earth - because then they don't get Shepard. Who knows how they're attacking other planets. I could see Anders keep the belief that Shepard is still on Earth alive solely to keep the Reapers busy.

Think of it from the Reaper's perspective - how has this one human managed to cause such a complete and utter derailing of a cycle that has been going on forever? I would imagine the Reapers would want to understand that. Perhaps - they actually fear Shepard.

Remember Harbinger: "If I must tear you apart Shepard... I will." That suggests to me that the Reapers would rather have Shepard for something else.

=======

We do know that past "harvests" have involved mass extinction events suggested to be from heavy orbital bombardment (what the point of just exterminating everything would be - I couldn't tell you)

Also - to continue your point Rinpoche - as the Reapers attempted to leave Earth's atmosphere to engage the arriving armada of aliens, I imagine they would be at a serious disadvantage. Throw in a fleet fully outfitted with Thanix cannons - and there's a chance.

The greatest difference between this cycle and all the rest if forewarning - the biggest blow was already made - the Citadel fell out of the Reaper's hands. Sure - they're a bunch of uber-ships coming to wreck some stuff - but their sneak attack is lost.

=====

Yes, the Council doesn't believe - which means the governments at large don't believe - but we have to be able to assume that other groups. Like Cerberus - do believe and have been preparing.

Liara has a vast information network at her disposal - she can help mobilize every civilization available solely by moving through underground channels.

Cerberus - though I hear it's been "deal with" by the Reapers - has been believing Shepard since TIM resurrected him.

====

Also - the Rachni and the Collector base.

One can assume that the person who saved the Rachni - destroyed the Collector base and vice versa. Saving the Rachni is paragon - saving the base is Renegade.

I imagine that these can be superimposed over one another for massive effect against the Reapers. ((Of course - saving both would be a huge bonus - while destroying both would make your play through much more difficult.))

=====

There are tons of options without resorting to awesome buttons to win the war.

[GreenDragon37]

As long as it's not like War of the Worlds. That'd be so cheesy it wouldn't even be funny. I'd be disappointed in BioWare. <_<

[shadowreflexion]

The plot could sway more towards the Disabled Reaper from ME 2 that the Protheans had a hand in stopping. As long as there is no War of the Worlds germ that kills them because I feel the honor in deciding how they die should be mine. lol

[kaiki01]

It's the dark energy that is eating suns.

[sp0ck 06]

shadowreflexion wrote...

The plot could sway more towards the Disabled Reaper from ME 2 that the Protheans had a hand in stopping. As long as there is no War of the Worlds germ that kills them because I feel the honor in deciding how they die should be mine. lol

Wasn't the Protheans.  TIM says the disabled Reaper was shot down 37 million years ago by an unknown adversary.

[Anihilus]

A plot twist is fine, as long as it's not some deus ex machina. That's where I draw the line

[Aimi]

shadowreflexion wrote...

The plot could sway more towards the Disabled Reaper from ME 2 that the Protheans had a hand in stopping. As long as there is no War of the Worlds germ that kills them because I feel the honor in deciding how they die should be mine. lol

The Protheans didn't exist when the Derelict Reaper was shot.

[shadowreflexion]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

As long as it's not like War of the Worlds. That'd be so cheesy it wouldn't even be funny. I'd be disappointed in BioWare. <_<

Same thoughts less than 3 mins apart. lol

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

shadowreflexion wrote...

The plot could sway more towards the Disabled Reaper from ME 2 that the Protheans had a hand in stopping. As long as there is no War of the Worlds germ that kills them because I feel the honor in deciding how they die should be mine. lol

Some kind of cannon, basically.  That could work... if they could find more than one of these "mass accelerator weapons" in time for the big showdown.