173 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

A good number of people were annoyed by the removal of skills from DA2. I am of the opinion that the original skills were fairly useless in the long run, but whatever. I figure we can add skills back in to enhance the RP experience while also making them useful. So, for the new skills, I submit:

Stealing - A lot of people with rogues have been complaining about the removal of this. So, why not just throw it back in? It doesn't even need any changes.

Lock-Picking - If stealing isn't rogue specific, why should lock-picking be? Make it a universal skill, but have it tied into a stat (Dex or Cunning) that rogues put points into normally.

Combat mastery was lame in DA:O. It forced you to put points into it just so you could put different points into the talents that mattered. So, let's make combat mastery enhance actual combat skills. We could split it into ranged and melee as well.

Melee Mastery - Bonus to accuracy and damage with melee weapons.

Ranged Mastery - Bonus to accuracy and damage with ranged weapons.

I personally enjoyed the crafting system from DA2, but I guess we can have crafting skills as well. Maybe even make it so you craft double items at master level.

Anyway, comments or suggestions?

[Cutlass Jack]

Skills should come back. I'd love a more robust system. With enough skills that giving a point per level would be useful. (instead of the 1/3 or 1/2 system of DAO) I think I'd prefer some skills being class restricted. If not, Lockpicking should stay based on cunning for rogues, sorry.

Some other suggestions:

Insult: Increase threat generation on actions.

Decieve: Decrease threat generation.

Element Mastery: one skill for each element. Increases damage and resistance to that element.  If allowable for all classes would include weapon damage of that element.

Coersion: Should come back as an actual skill instead of the stealthy DA2 method which most people were unaware was in the game. Personally I'd love it broken down into seperate charm/intimidate/diplomacy skills but doubt they'd do that. So instead I'd follow DA2 somewhat and put modifiers by personality rating.

Crafting: I'd love to see a real crafting system with skills to go along with it. But this seems to be one thing Bioware can't seem to manage no matter how hard they try. So probably an unrealistic wish.

Awareness: Increases information given on minimap. Enemies and points of interest. Could possibly be broken into two skills: Streetwise (increases city stuff) & Survival (increases non-city location). But probably too advanced for DA.

As a final note, I'd keep tactical slots as they were in DA2 and not put them skill based again. That was a very solid move this time around.
 

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 09 juin 2011 - 02:21 .

[Zanallen]

Meh, having lock-pick be rogue only just seems so gamey to me. They should at least have a break lock ability for warriors, at the cost of possibly breaking perishables, and maybe an open lock spell scroll for mages. So, rogues would be best off because they can learn the skill naturally, warriors can break chests open at the cost of certain items and mages can open locks with a spell, but the scroll will cost money.

[Cutlass Jack]

I think 'gamey' is exactly why rogues are losing their non-combat roleplay aspects and have been forced into a 'dps' class by many games. Makes me sad.

If we only had one character instead of a party, I could see alternate methods. But if we only had one character, I'd prefer no classes at all.

[Zanallen]

I just liked the KotOR method of it. Using security was obviously the best choice for opening things, but you had the option to open things through other methods. It made more sense to me, I suppose. And rogues still have their stealth.

[_Aine_]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Skills should come back. I'd love a more robust system. With enough skills that giving a point per level would be useful. (instead of the 1/3 or 1/2 system of DAO) I think I'd prefer some skills being class restricted. If not, Lockpicking should stay based on cunning for rogues, sorry.

Some other suggestions:

Insult: Increase threat generation on actions.

Decieve: Decrease threat generation.

Element Mastery: one skill for each element. Increases damage and resistance to that element.  If allowable for all classes would include weapon damage of that element.

Coersion: Should come back as an actual skill instead of the stealthy DA2 method which most people were unaware was in the game. Personally I'd love it broken down into seperate charm/intimidate/diplomacy skills but doubt they'd do that. So instead I'd follow DA2 somewhat and put modifiers by personality rating.

Crafting: I'd love to see a real crafting system with skills to go along with it. But this seems to be one thing Bioware can't seem to manage no matter how hard they try. So probably an unrealistic wish.

Awareness: Increases information given on minimap. Enemies and points of interest. Could possibly be broken into two skills: Streetwise (increases city stuff) & Survival (increases non-city location). But probably too advanced for DA.

As a final note, I'd keep tactical slots as they were in DA2 and not put them skill based again. That was a very solid move this time around.
 

+++

Agree on all.  

I would *love* a decent crafting system. I am one of those crazy crafters when I play mmorpgs and I really enjoy a robust and useful system.  Alas, you are probably right about it's implementation here as any time I see a simplification of a system I see a move closer towards it being wholly unnecessary to them ( rightly perceived or not) 

[CookysNCreem]

Zanallen wrote...

I just liked the KotOR method of it. Using security was obviously the best choice for opening things, but you had the option to open things through other methods. It made more sense to me, I suppose. And rogues still have their stealth.

I was about to mention KotOR. (Beating the lock into submission always worked for me!) Definitely agree with you on this, Zanallen. 

[Ploppy]

DA2 failed on the mass market because it too complicated, not the other way around. If anything, you could make a strong case for removing stats for DA3 and shift it all into talents.

[WilliamShatner]

They never should have left.. They should have added MORE.

Conversation skills is #1 to be brought back for me.

One I'd like to see added is forging, which would allow you to combine items to make a better one. If you've played Two Worlds, you'd know what I'm talking about.

You could also creates items like in Arcanum.

This would give junk and low level items a lot more purpose than simply being vendor loot.

[Cutlass Jack]

Ploppy wrote...

DA2 failed on the mass market because it too complicated, not the other way around. If anything, you could make a strong case for removing stats for DA3 and shift it all into talents.

Um what? Of all the reasons I've heard for DA2 'failing' this wasn't even on the list.

[Zanallen]

The Coercion skill needed a major overhaul from Origins. With three points you could pretty much pass every persuasion check in the game. That's silly. Personally, I'd like to see DA adopt a skill system more like that in KotOR or the Fallout games. You get a certain number of points per level based on intelligence or whatever and put them wherever you want.

[MonkeyLungs]

Yep skills please. I like Cutlass jack's suggestions above. A system like his with even more skills would be fun.

And William Shatner is spot on in the above post. Give us crafting skills and tie ALL of the loot to crafting in some way. Weapons/armor - either break em down or build them up. Vendor trash weapons should be useful to the player in ways other than just selling from the junk tab.

[_Aine_]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Yep skills please. I like Cutlass jack's suggestions above. A system like his with even more skills would be fun.

And William Shatner is spot on in the above post. Give us crafting skills and tie ALL of the loot to crafting in some way. Weapons/armor - either break em down or build them up. Vendor trash weapons should be useful to the player in ways other than just selling from the junk tab.

Yeah, if junk is useful somehow, that is great.   

[fightright2]

shantisands wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Yep skills please. I like Cutlass jack's suggestions above. A system like his with even more skills would be fun.

And William Shatner is spot on in the above post. Give us crafting skills and tie ALL of the loot to crafting in some way. Weapons/armor - either break em down or build them up. Vendor trash weapons should be useful to the player in ways other than just selling from the junk tab.

Yeah, if junk is useful somehow, that is great.   

I also agree.

[Zanallen]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Yep skills please. I like Cutlass jack's suggestions above. A system like his with even more skills would be fun.

And William Shatner is spot on in the above post. Give us crafting skills and tie ALL of the loot to crafting in some way. Weapons/armor - either break em down or build them up. Vendor trash weapons should be useful to the player in ways other than just selling from the junk tab.

I think it was KotOR 2 that had components that could be obtained by breaking down items. Said components could then be used to build new items. Stuff that was broken by bashing open locks was also reduced to components.

[Dubya75]

Ploppy wrote...

DA2 failed on the mass market because it too complicated, not the other way around. If anything, you could make a strong case for removing stats for DA3 and shift it all into talents.

Errrr, what?! DA2 is complicated? How exactly? You must remember that it is an RPG after all, so a little complexity is expected, and infact demanded.
If it was any less comlicated it would not be an RPG anymore.

However, I found skills to have very little to no significant impact in Origins, so I'm glad it's gone.

[fightright2]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Skills should come back. I'd love a more robust system. With enough skills that giving a point per level would be useful. (instead of the 1/3 or 1/2 system of DAO) I think I'd prefer some skills being class restricted. If not, Lockpicking should stay based on cunning for rogues, sorry.

Some other suggestions:

Insult: Increase threat generation on actions.

Decieve: Decrease threat generation.

Element Mastery: one skill for each element. Increases damage and resistance to that element.  If allowable for all classes would include weapon damage of that element.

Coersion: Should come back as an actual skill instead of the stealthy DA2 method which most people were unaware was in the game. Personally I'd love it broken down into seperate charm/intimidate/diplomacy skills but doubt they'd do that. So instead I'd follow DA2 somewhat and put modifiers by personality rating.

Crafting: I'd love to see a real crafting system with skills to go along with it. But this seems to be one thing Bioware can't seem to manage no matter how hard they try. So probably an unrealistic wish.

Awareness: Increases information given on minimap. Enemies and points of interest. Could possibly be broken into two skills: Streetwise (increases city stuff) & Survival (increases non-city location). But probably too advanced for DA.

As a final note, I'd keep tactical slots as they were in DA2 and not put them skill based again. That was a very solid move this time around.
 

I love the idea of coersion being broken down into seperate charm/intimidate/diplomacy.

Crafting. I cannot say enough how bad I want that. I love the idea of having a real crafting system with skills tied to it.

Jack, if you can expand on your idea on crafting for each class I'd love to hear.

I think Awareness is great for a huge game like Fallout or ElderScrolls but in order for that to happen, there would have to be a huge amount of content/quests. But it's not a bad idea as long as there is an actual benefit to it so as not to become useless.

I can't remember ever really trying and my son asked me about this too, but was there ever a shop that we could get discounts at?
I think I looked at a few and found the selling prices were same I didn't look any further.
I like having discounts, but I think this is where Awareness would be good if you knew when store inventory changed or they had sales going on.

Modifié par fightright2, 09 juin 2011 - 03:43 .

[Wulfram]

Since I hate crafting, I'm not to sad to lose the Origins skills.

[Tirfan]

Umm, it kind of depends how you define rpg - there are a lot of different kinds of role playing games in this world, from those jRPG:s that I can't really think of as rpg:s but still, to pen and paper games (with so many different systems with different levels of complexity) to western RPG:s and action/rpg hybrids.

One thing that is supposed to be the common denominator with all these things is the fact that you play a character. I don't count DA2 as a full-blooded classical RPG, Some could argue that even DA:O wasn't such a game. To me it would've made little to no difference had DA2 been even more simpler - still wouldn't like it.

On topic then once again; I miss skills, I used most of them on plays in origins, While I didn't really pickpocket a lot, you could still identify some targets with common sense that were worth pickpocketing. I do kinda understand why you can coat your weapons in poisons in DA2 with no knowledge of poisons all my melee characters always had one rank in that skill just because I liked my poisons, while this did feel kind of weird, I didn't really mind it that much.

Traps.. while I do think that these were probably one of the least used things and trap-making one of the least used skill (pure speculation, don't know the numbers) I really liked them, and if possible, I used them in most fights, there was something very satisfying in luring your enemies into traps, and making archer-type enemies a lot less threatening by carefully placed traps (I started to hate enemy archers as soon as they started using scattershot.)

EDIT: and perhaps I should've actually quoted Dubya75.. well, what can you do, I'm in a fail-mode apparently

Modifié par Tirfan, 09 juin 2011 - 03:46 .

[fightright2]

Wulfram wrote...

Since I hate crafting, I'm not to sad to lose the Origins skills.

Aww. That's what made me fall in love with RPGs in the first place.

[AllThatJazz]

 Some great suggestions there, Cutlass Jack  Also, I agree with Zanellen - I liked the KotOR way of handling locks as well. You aren't penalised for not taking a rogue along/being a rogue by being deprived of loot, but the rogue still has the distinct advantage.

I'm all for more skills (MOAR PLEEZ!), and more class-specific non-combat skills especially. Anything that makes different playthroughs really feel like a different experience, out of battle as well as in, is a good thing in my book and only increases my desire to replay. I did like the way the varying classes looked in DA2, and the different way they moved about in combat situations; but under the hood it all seemed a bit irrelevant what class they were, and I think that 'development' was a shame. My particular favourites have always been background skills like 'lore' etc, skills that increase your knowledge of the world around you, either generally or specifically (magic lore, wilderness lore etc). Sadly, these do not seem to be very fashionable these days as they don't make anything more 'visceral' . I also enjoy skills which allow non-combat resolutions to particular scenarios. One bit of Origins I really enjoyed was disguising my Warden in order to rescue Anora - so some kind of subterfuge/disguise skill would be fab.

[Elhanan]

I am for adding and replacing Skills back into the game. However, I also liked the way DA2 connected some Skills to the Attributes (eg; higher Cunning allowed Lockpicking and Disarm Trap).

So whether Skills are seperated or linked, pls may I have some more?

[Tirfan]

umm, cunning did contribute to lockpicking & disarming traps in DA:O

[Pasquale1234]

How about...
Coercion modified by strength to determine one's ability to intimidate.
Coercion modified by cunning to determine one's ability to persuade.
Coercion modified by magic to gain some mind-control effect.
So each class would have a primary coercion method.

I'm also thinking that some sort of Investigate skill could be interesting, and could be used to expand or contract the protag's ability to gain useful information from questioning NPCs or possibly via other means.

[Cutlass Jack]

fightright2 wrote...

Jack, if you can expand on your idea on crafting for each class I'd love to hear.

Well for me a good crafting system involves cutting down trees to craft individual planks to make a boat with. With a minigame involved in the process (i.e. Vanguard). Which admittedly is far more than I'd ever expect Bioware to take time to do properly in a single player game.

So a more 'realistic' expectation would be a system that would allow the player to upgrade and customize their favorite gear and keep it up to date.  For example, breaking down weapons you don't use to get components upgrade a weapon you like. Which would be mixed with other resources you find in the world etc. The player's skill in that type of crafting (Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing whatever) would determine how much they could upgrade it.

If in the process you can 'tweak' the look of pieces that would be even better. Dying armor for example.

Anyway, crafting is probably another topic to itself. But the main thought as far as this topic goes is that if they put a more robust skill system in I'd love some crafting skills to go along with it. I can understand why they did the whole 'buy crafted items from list' thing they did this time, but not a fan of it. Why would the crafter require that I have the recipe? Some logic flaws there.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 09 juin 2011 - 05:55 .