173 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

So a more 'realistic' expectation would be a system that would allow the player to upgrade and customize their favorite gear and keep it up to date.  For example, breaking down weapons you don't use to get components upgrade a weapon you like. Which would be mixed with other resources you find in the world etc. The player's skill in that type of crafting (Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing whatever) would determine how much they could upgrade it.

If in the process you can 'tweak' the look of pieces that would be even better. Dying armor for example.

Anyway, crafting is probably another topic to itself. But the main thought as far as this topic goes is that if they put a more robust skill system in I'd love some crafting skills to go along with it. I can understand why they did the whole 'buy crafted items from list' thing they did this time, but not a fan of it. Why would the crafter require that I have the recipe? Some logic flaws there.

I would *love* this - along with making special arrows or crossbow bolts.  A better arrowsmith might make arrows that are truer and more accurate.

[Luke Barrett]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
I can understand why they did the whole 'buy crafted items from list' thing they did this time, but not a fan of it.

Did you not like it or did you dislike it? The former is a negation of a positive, the latter is simply a negative. (ie. indifference vs. negativity)

[apple_sauced]

Yes! Bring the skills back! Maybe we can reach some happy medium: Make it a skill, but maybe restrict it to certain characters, or certain races (elves?) Would be interesting if "but I need someone who can craft poisons..." was a consideration when considering whether or not to keep someone as a companion.

At the same time, in DA1 it was super annoying to have to put someone in your party, leave camp, go somewhere, have them make poisons, then go back to camp. If the person is in your party, you should just be able to tell them to craft what you want.

I'd really love it if rogues could lockpick and warriors could try to bash locks (with some risk of failure, of course.)

[Elhanan]

Tirfan wrote...

umm, cunning did contribute to lockpicking & disarming traps in DA:O

True, but if they continue to simply link Skill use with the Attributes as in DA2 w/o choosing them seperately, I am fine with it, though would like to see more Skills implemented.

[Cutlass Jack]

Luke Barrett wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...
I can understand why they did the whole 'buy crafted items from list' thing they did this time, but not a fan of it.

Did you not like it or did you dislike it? The former is a negation of a positive, the latter is simply a negative. (ie. indifference vs. negativity)

I could appreciate its convenience but I disliked it. iIf that makes sense? Its not a crafting system to me if I'm not getting the satisfaction making nifty things myself.

For example, I appreciate having less inventory stress on my bags, but unfortunately you went the wrong way on it. I'd rather have had my bags filled with useful crafting materials I could then make into nifty things, than have my bags filled with entirely useless junk items that were only worth coppers.

If those junk items were replaced with items useful for crafting, then everyone wins. People who like crafting could craft. Those who hate crafting could sell them for the same coppers. Although I would consider a system where the player could store such ingredients at their house (in something like the storage chest) and then when at the crafting station making things, the game checks there as well as what you're carrying to see if you have what you need.

That way there's no need to lug everything around. I think removing the ability to craft on the fly (like in Origins) is fair though. I prefer using a defined crafting spot.

Hopefully I'm making some sense here and not straying too far off what you were asking.


In a completely unrelated addendum: I'd love to be able to name the nifty things I make as well. (for non consumables of course)

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 09 juin 2011 - 06:17 .

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

I actually like how crafting was handled in DA2 better, however there are still a lot of other skills that could have been implemented aside from crafting skills.

Pasquale1234 wrote...

How about...
Coercion modified by strength to determine one's ability to intimidate.
Coercion modified by cunning to determine one's ability to persuade.
Coercion modified by magic to gain some mind-control effect.
So each class would have a primary coercion method.

Mind control seems a little murky, I'd rather it be more like magical intimidation. Kind of like Gandalf in that one scene in Lord of the Rings. Save mind control for more specific circumstances... with pronounced consequences.

I remember as a mage in Origins you could threaten to turn some people into a toad or something. I think you could threaten Bevin as a mage.

[Pasquale1234]

Filament wrote...

I actually like how crafting was handled in DA2 better, however there are still a lot of other skills that could have been implemented aside from crafting skills.

Pasquale1234 wrote...

How about...
Coercion modified by strength to determine one's ability to intimidate.
Coercion modified by cunning to determine one's ability to persuade.
Coercion modified by magic to gain some mind-control effect.
So each class would have a primary coercion method.

Mind control seems a little murky, I'd rather it be more like magical intimidation. Kind of like Gandalf in that one scene in Lord of the Rings. Save mind control for more specific circumstances... with pronounced consequences.

Yes, I kind of thought that when I typed it.  I was basically looking for a way for magic to enhance coercion skills, so that each class would have a unique way to bring about influence, and thinking about Jedi mind tricks.  Maybe not really mind control, but putting thoughts or ideas into someone else's head which may influence their behavior should they choose to act on it.

[syllogi]

Crafting: while it seems tedious to some, there are the people who pay their MMO subscription every month just so they can craft. There are those who scanned EVERY planet in ME2. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but it isn't universally reviled, and some people love crafting in games. Even if it's simplified, please bring some form of it back. Just knowing where to find resources and going to the table to make the item isn't the same at all. There is no reward or satisfaction for players who enjoy crafting, especially if you've played the game more than once and you know exactly where to go to find resources.

Skills in general: I LOVED stealing. Loved it. I could spend hours picking pockets. I don't mind if it is restricted to rogues, but taking it away altogether was sad. It takes a lot away from being a rogue when you don't have stealing, or quests that incorporate that ability in some way.

Coercion: leveling this early made coercion checks ridiculously easy, but still, I like being able to have the option. The dialogue system in DA2 was incredibly unintuitive, and while bringing Varric everywhere to charm my way out of situations is always an option, why take that away from the player? Again, I don't understand the logic behind this choice.

Trap-making and Survival: two more skills that I would have been okay with being rogue exclusive, but once again, why take them away? I loved Survival, even though not every character used it. It was that extra something that helped in certain situations, being able to see things on the mini map, and having extra dialogue options. I didn't always use trap-making either, but see my comments above on crafting. It is strange that a maker of RPGs would think that *nobody* wants the ability to lay traps. It is a strategic device that seems essential to me.

[_Aine_]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I could appreciate its convenience but I disliked it. iIf that makes sense? Its not a crafting system to me if I'm not getting the satisfaction making nifty things myself.

For example, I appreciate having less inventory stress on my bags, but unfortunately you went the wrong way on it. I'd rather have had my bags filled with useful crafting materials I could then make into nifty things, than have my bags filled with entirely useless junk items that were only worth coppers.

If those junk items were replaced with items useful for crafting, then everyone wins. People who like crafting could craft. Those who hate crafting could sell them for the same coppers. Although I would consider a system where the player could store such ingredients at their house (in something like the storage chest) and then when at the crafting station making things, the game checks there as well as what you're carrying to see if you have what you need.

That way there's no need to lug everything around. I think removing the ability to craft on the fly (like in Origins) is fair though. I prefer using a defined crafting spot.

Hopefully I'm making some sense here and not straying too far off what you were asking.


In a completely unrelated addendum: I'd love to be able to name the nifty things I make as well. (for non consumables of course)

Just have to add my approval to this ( and yes, it made perfect sense, to me!) 
I would *love* that.  Crafting is one easy way of breaking up the monotony of quest, run, fight, talk, turn in quest, repeat process that tends to occur in games.  Plus, for people who enjoy crafting, being able to take lots of useful stuff and turn it into something tangible (like armor or weapons, potions etc) is just fun.    True, many people don't like crafting so it doesn't have to be a mandatory thing, just a useful thing.  A good crafting system adds hours to my enjoyment of some games, personally.  

I don't mind having a designated storage and crafting area in my home/base or what-not either.  Just another reason to bring be back to the main hub between quests.  

[Elhanan]

Uncertain, but the Survival map display of opponents seemed to be included in DA2.

[fightright2]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

fightright2 wrote...

Jack, if you can expand on your idea on crafting for each class I'd love to hear.

So a more 'realistic' expectation would be a system that would allow the player to upgrade and customize their favorite gear and keep it up to date.  For example, breaking down weapons you don't use to get components upgrade a weapon you like. Which would be mixed with other resources you find in the world etc. The player's skill in that type of crafting (Weaponsmithing, Armorsmithing whatever) would determine how much they could upgrade it.

If in the process you can 'tweak' the look of pieces that would be even better. Dying armor for example.

Anyway, crafting is probably another topic to itself. But the main thought as far as this topic goes is that if they put a more robust skill system in I'd love some crafting skills to go along with it. I can understand why they did the whole 'buy crafted items from list' thing they did this time, but not a fan of it. Why would the crafter require that I have the recipe? Some logic flaws there.

I thought the same. Uh, I am paying for someone else's knowledge and know-how. It's like going to a restuarant and ordering a dish that you have to have the recipe for.

I was thinking of crafting to classes as:

Warriors- Armor and weapon crafting
Mages- Potions and spells
Rogues- Poison-making and trap-making and grenades.


Runecrafting would remain in the hands of shops and Sandal.

I love the idea of dying armor.

[Tirfan]

Could be implemented as an option for blood mage - although I can in a way see it breaking the game if you get nothing like that as an option for other specializations, I liked the few occasions in Origins as a mage where I could intimidate people with the option of mentioning that I'm a mage. (Don't know if those actually used magic as a component rather than strength) Those options however were quite rare if I remember correctly. And really, who wouldn't like telling annoying people that I'll burn their faces off if they don't do as I say.

[syllogi]

Elhanan wrote...

Uncertain, but the Survival map display of opponents seemed to be included in DA2.

It was dependent on being in line of sight of the enemy, correct?  With Survival, you could see enemies behind the fog of war, depending on how many levels you had.

[fightright2]

shantisands wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I could appreciate its convenience but I disliked it. iIf that makes sense? Its not a crafting system to me if I'm not getting the satisfaction making nifty things myself.

For example, I appreciate having less inventory stress on my bags, but unfortunately you went the wrong way on it. I'd rather have had my bags filled with useful crafting materials I could then make into nifty things, than have my bags filled with entirely useless junk items that were only worth coppers.

If those junk items were replaced with items useful for crafting, then everyone wins. People who like crafting could craft. Those who hate crafting could sell them for the same coppers. Although I would consider a system where the player could store such ingredients at their house (in something like the storage chest) and then when at the crafting station making things, the game checks there as well as what you're carrying to see if you have what you need.

That way there's no need to lug everything around. I think removing the ability to craft on the fly (like in Origins) is fair though. I prefer using a defined crafting spot.

Hopefully I'm making some sense here and not straying too far off what you were asking.


In a completely unrelated addendum: I'd love to be able to name the nifty things I make as well. (for non consumables of course)

Just have to add my approval to this ( and yes, it made perfect sense, to me!) 
I would *love* that.  Crafting is one easy way of breaking up the monotony of quest, run, fight, talk, turn in quest, repeat process that tends to occur in games.  Plus, for people who enjoy crafting, being able to take lots of useful stuff and turn it into something tangible (like armor or weapons, potions etc) is just fun.    True, many people don't like crafting so it doesn't have to be a mandatory thing, just a useful thing.  A good crafting system adds hours to my enjoyment of some games, personally.  

I don't mind having a designated storage and crafting area in my home/base or what-not either.  Just another reason to bring be back to the main hub between quests.  

Shanti, you are so spot on with it adding hours of fun for those that love crafting! I have spent tons of hours doing just that!

And Jack, I totally am in support of your idea of junk/resource. It's a win/win for those for crafting and those that don't can just sell it for the money. Spectacular idea!

[Cutlass Jack]

fightright2 wrote...

I was thinking of crafting to classes as:

Warriors- Armor and weapon crafting
Mages- Potions and spells
Rogues- Poison-making and trap-making and grenades.

Ah I see, I misinterpreted your earlier question. I wasn't thinking crafting skills as being class limited, more other types of skill.

But definately room for this sort of thing. For example, having pickpocketing be a form of 'resource harvesting' for materials used in poisons and traps. So the rogue skill gets items useful to rogues without making other classes feel like they are missing out on something.

[In Exile]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I could appreciate its convenience but I disliked it. iIf that makes sense? Its not a crafting system to me if I'm not getting the satisfaction making nifty things myself.

For example, I appreciate having less inventory stress on my bags, but unfortunately you went the wrong way on it. I'd rather have had my bags filled with useful crafting materials I could then make into nifty things, than have my bags filled with entirely useless junk items that were only worth coppers.

Why did you feel like you were not making the items yourself? What was it about the system that prevented it from feeling like crafting (other than it avoided the resource bottleneck). I'm curious, because I quite liked how DA2 handled crafting, at least compared to DA:O.

I still think the Wither 1 had the best basic crafting idea with potions.

[In Exile]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Yes, I kind of thought that when I typed it.  I was basically looking for a way for magic to enhance coercion skills, so that each class would have a unique way to bring about influence, and thinking about Jedi mind tricks.  Maybe not really mind control, but putting thoughts or ideas into someone else's head which may influence their behavior should they choose to act on it.

Although never implemented, magic has blood magic. That's why blood magic is dangerous - because it can dominate minds.

[WilliamShatner]

I think crafting should be usable at any time.

There's really no reason why it shouldn't.

Does a mage really need a table to make a potion.

Being able to craft while on the road would be a great way to handle inventory space. If you space starts to fill up but there's still loot to be taken you can craft together items - which a) frees up space without having to just get rid of an item without any sort of benefit and gives you a better item.

[Cutlass Jack]

In Exile wrote...

Why did you feel like you were not making the items yourself? What was it about the system that prevented it from feeling like crafting (other than it avoided the resource bottleneck). I'm curious, because I quite liked how DA2 handled crafting, at least compared to DA:O.

What made you feel like you were making items yourself? The system was ordering items from a catalogue that other crafters made.

Admittedly the delivery service they used was excellent.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 09 juin 2011 - 07:07 .

[Tirfan]

^^ this. I did this quite a lot in DA:O, where I quite often found myself in need of traps/poisons/potions and out of inventory space.

Modifié par Tirfan, 09 juin 2011 - 07:07 .

[In Exile]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
What made you feel like you were making items yourself? The system was ordering items from a catalogue that other crafters made.

I didn't feel like I made them myself. But I never felt that way in a game, regardless of what the game was (beside TW1), because it was always press the magic button type build. In TW1, you could use interchangeable parts to build a potion and potentially, create new recepies on your own. It felt like actual building.

[Pasquale1234]

In Exile wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Yes, I kind of thought that when I typed it.  I was basically looking for a way for magic to enhance coercion skills, so that each class would have a unique way to bring about influence, and thinking about Jedi mind tricks.  Maybe not really mind control, but putting thoughts or ideas into someone else's head which may influence their behavior should they choose to act on it.

Although never implemented, magic has blood magic. That's why blood magic is dangerous - because it can dominate minds.

I'm not suggesting, nor would I want a coercion skill to be able to dominate minds.

The other two methods - intimidation and persuasion - allow the target to choose whether to be influenced, and what I am trying to suggest for mages would be no different.  Planting an idea, or a suggestion in their minds that they could act upon or not.