90 réponses à ce sujet

[llandwynwyn]

IsaacShep wrote...
that means someone from the Thane/Jacob/Miranda/Jack group will not be returning as full-squadie.

Thane kinda makes sense since he is dying after all.

roflchoppaz wrote...

Liara is the canon romance, don't you know? Other characters just don't exist in the eyes of BioWare.

*grumble* My inner Liara hate is showing, sorry.

lol I just hope she can die this time, knowing her strong plot armor I doubt it but...one can hope.

[Mr.House]

roflchoppaz wrote...

Liara is the canon romance, don't you know? Other characters just don't exist in the eyes of BioWare.

*grumble* My inner Liara hate is showing, sorry.

I suggest you watch the ME launch trailer for 360, the ME2 launch trailer for 360/PC and the one for PS3 and tell me she is the canon romance. She was showen in the PC launch trailer, that's it.
Nor is there any default romance or canon romance.

Modifié par Mr.House, 09 juin 2011 - 07:35 .

[Robhuzz]

Mr.House wrote...

roflchoppaz wrote...

Liara is the canon romance, don't you know? Other characters just don't exist in the eyes of BioWare.

*grumble* My inner Liara hate is showing, sorry.

I suggest you watch the ME launch trailer for 360, the ME2 launch trailer for 360/PC and the one for PS3 and tell me she is the canon romance. She was showen in the PC launch trailer, that's it.
Nor is there any default romance or canon romance.

Ignore those kinds of comments. Those are simply Liara haters claiming Liara is BioWare's canon romance because she can't die in ME1 and ME2 (Obviously because they had a special plan to make her the shadow broker) but some people don't want to see this 

[Barquiel]

roflchoppaz wrote...

Liara is the canon romance, don't you know? Other characters just don't exist in the eyes of BioWare.

...says the Tali/Garrus fan. Liara isn't a permanent squadmate in ME1 + ME2 + ME3.

Modifié par Barquiel, 09 juin 2011 - 07:46 .

[Flashlegend]

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

I hope the bioware guys see this because some of us didn't like tali or either of the virmire survivors as much as the me2 squad. I wish we could choose our squadmates. I have faith they wont screw us but I hope that they see this.

Choosing your own squad just isn't feasible. Why was there so little squad banter in ME2? Why was there so little squad interaction and conflict? Why was Garrus always Calibrating? Because there was just TOO MANY DAMN characters and combinations to be accounted for. ME3 is gonna be hard enough for bioware now that essentially every squad mate you've ever had could be dead at this point, save Liara and the Virmire survivor. If we all want decent squad interaction and more in depth character development, sacrifices need to be made when it comes to squad mate freedom.

I agree sacrifices should be made but if talis already dead for me then all that squad banter they are focusing on with her goes out the window same with garrus so why focus so much on them? I think they should treat all characters equally especially LI because I dont think anyone should feel cheated based on if they romanced a me1 squaddie or a me2 squaddie.

If what your saying was done, and equal focus was put on all 16 of the squad mates you could have had at this point(don't forget new characters) then you can expect the quality of character we find in our squad mates in this go around to be extremely poor. Honestly, giving equal attention to everyone is just a terrible idea.Think of all the possible dialogue they would have to come up with for conversing with every character, character lines on certain levels and lines with other squad mates. If they were to do this we would surely NEVER see more than 2-3 squadmates together simply because we have a ludicrous amount of possible characters that could be there.

Not to mention, Love interests are wonderful and all but for the sake of overall story(which is pretty important if you didn't know) characters which have absolutely no relevance or importamce to the plot should not be given great attention. To be as effective as possible, its best to just take a certain group of characters and focus on them. And really, Bioware knows that more often than not, individual characters we had in ME2 will be alive(unless you purposefully tried to kill them off or were to lazy to reload an earlier save and do the suicide mission properly)

Seriously, it's that simple. This romance feature shouldn't be allowed to put a damper on what these games are about, story and interesting characters.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 09 juin 2011 - 08:01 .

[dewayne31]

Barquiel wrote...

roflchoppaz wrote...

Liara is the canon romance, don't you know? Other characters just don't exist in the eyes of BioWare.

...says the Tali/Garrus fan. Liara isn't a permanent squadmate in ME1 + ME2 + ME3.

I'm not a big Liara fan. my femshep romanced her and i'm going maleshep for her. nut i want point although you dont have to recruit until last. you still have to get her to complete the story.

[JeffZero]

Barquiel wrote...

roflchoppaz wrote...

Liara is the canon romance, don't you know? Other characters just don't exist in the eyes of BioWare.

...says the Tali/Garrus fan. Liara isn't a permanent squadmate in ME1 + ME2 + ME3.

...and Tali and Garrus can die while Liara can't. Look, this is a pointless argument. There's ammo on both sides, which to me means that people shouldn't bother getting snide about it and just accept things as they are.

Nuclear deterrence and all, you grok?

[Mims]

It'd be cool if people with a non-returning ME2 romance could 'unlock' that character at the end of the game to play with. Just scale the abilities [or copy-pasta from another squaddie], and keep their ME2 combat dialogue. Shabam.

[[ Only problem in that scenario is if we're in some sort of time-loop type ending. Where we're still at 'war' with the reapers, even though we've beaten them, and some of the missions remaining still require non-generic squad dialogue. ]]

There are ways to make it work though. When you break romances down, they don't REALLY add up to a heck of a lot. You get maybe three extra conversations? Awkward cuddle time? If they boil down an entire romance arc into a meaningful mission ala LOTSB, I think it'll work really nicely.

One thing that they definitely would want to add though is the ability to go and visit any of the romance options. If they just up and disappear out of the game, I'd definitely be sadface.

[King Gigglez]

Maike91 wrote...

King Gigglez wrote...

I think that it would make sense for the LI someone has had to make it into their squad, but I am also wondering what happens if someone (Jack for me) dies in the Suicide mission, will someone take there spot? But that is something for a different threat >v< I am glad that Tali and Garrus made it in though, that's all that matters to me lol I think that the LI would fit as a squadmate, it just doesn't make sense for that not to be the case.

I like the idea of having one of the squadmember slots for the LI, but what happens, when 1. they died in the Suicide Mission as you said or 2. if they are already part of the team ( Liara, VS, Garrus...)?

Grunt could either be a squad mate or working as a cameo depending on stuff, or maybe... Raloi squad mate! I would die of joy if that happened... but I digress >v<

[KawaiiKatie]

Flashlegend wrote...

Seriously, it's that simple. This
romance feature shouldn't be allowed to put a damper on what these games
are about, story and interesting characters.

Why would giving all of the love-interests the same amount of time and attention take away from the story and the interesting characters?

Furthermore, using your logic, shouldn't we expect Garrus' interactions in ME3 to be "extremely poor"? He can die in ME2! Therefore, why should Bioware put any effort into his ME3 dialogue? What about the Virmire Survivor? Any dialogue that Ash records has to be echoed by Kaidan! That's a lot of work! So why should Bioware even try? Does this mean that they should focus all of their attention on Liara? Make her the only "interesting" character?

Personally, I like to see a fleshed out cast. There's no reason why giving equal attention to all of our old friends (especially if Shepard is in love with one of them) should take away from the overall core story, or from the development of permanent squadmates.

I don't mean to imply that all of the old love-interest should be back as permanent squadmates in ME3, because I realize that this is highly unlikely. But if the character my Shepard loves cannot be by his/her side, why shouldn't Shepard be allowed to visit his/her love interest, or send emails, or have voice chats, or otherwise maintain contact with the person he/she is fighting for? I don't understand how this would take away from the game as a whole.

The only excuse I can think of where "equal" attention for all of the romances (be it through actual face-time with your love-interest or through indirect contact) would take away from the plot or the permanent squadmates is if Bioware is lazy. I sincerly doubt that they would avoid "fleshing out" squadmates just because they decided to add content between Shepard and his/her former love-interest. I am aware that anything Bioware adds to the game consumes both their time and reasources, but they know that the romances mean a lot to a lot of players, so I certainly hope that they add content that allows Shepard to maintain contact with his/her former love-interest, in a way deeper and more meaningful than a Horizon-esque cameo.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 09 juin 2011 - 08:17 .

[KawaiiKatie]

Legion of Grunt wrote...

I was hoping Kelly would still be serving on the Normandy...It's not like all the crew died/scattered at the end of ME2 (unless you didn't give them someone to escort them).

I think it'll be difficult for Kelly to serve on an Alliance vessel, being a (former?) member of Cerberus, but maybe Shepard vouched for the ME2 Normandy crew and they were allowed to stick around? I have no idea how that'll work out.

But if you were in a loyal relationship with Kelly and she can't be on the Normandy, you should be allowed to receive emails from her, or maybe get some sort of audio-file so that you can hear her voice again.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 09 juin 2011 - 08:22 .

[dewayne31]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Legion of Grunt wrote...

I was hoping Kelly would still be serving on the Normandy...It's not like all the crew died/scattered at the end of ME2 (unless you didn't give them someone to escort them).

I think it'll be difficult for Kelly to serve on an Alliance vessel, being a (former?) member of Cerberus, but maybe Shepard vouched for the ME2 Normandy crew and they were allowed to stick around? I have no idea how that'll work out.

But if you were in a loyal relationship with Kelly and she can't be on the Normandy, you should be allowed to receive emails from her, or maybe get some sort of audio-file so that you can hear her voice again.

i think it was mention somewhere before e3. that some of the crew would return. so i think kelly may rerurn.

[candidate88766]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

I think a character's presence should be based on their importance to the story, not just on whether they are an LI.

I think that if Shepard is in a relationship with a character, he or she is important to the story. This is Shepard's story, so why would the person he/she loves be an instrumental part of that tale?

I'm not saying that all of the former love-interests should come back as permanent squadmates (this is extremely unlikely to happen) but I do think that there should be something that "balances" the romances for all players, but this in the form of emails, chats, visits with your love-interest, or something that indicates that Shepard is fighting for someone that he/she deeply cares about, even if that person can't be by his/her side.

I meant that LIs shouldn't be squad members unless there is a better story reason than they're sleeping with Shepard. Being in the game and being able to continue a relationship is something I want for eveyr character, but I only want characters in my squad if it makes sense.

For example, as much as I like Wrex I'd prefer him to stay on Tuchunka and continue his important role with the Korgan than confine himself to a room on the Normandy where he can't do much. Thats why I was hoping Liara actually wouldn't be on the squad - shes my main LI, but I felt Liara's role as SB was too important for her to drop that and join Shepard on the Normandy. Then again there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for it, and I can't really complain because I seem to be getting most of the ME1 team back together. I wish Legion could be on the team though.

[candidate88766]

roflchoppaz wrote...

Liara is the canon romance, don't you know? Other characters just don't exist in the eyes of BioWare.

*grumble* My inner Liara hate is showing, sorry.

Shes not the canon romance, she's just more important to the plot than some other characters. Not all characters have the same importance in the plot - I can't imagine Jacob or Samara having much of a role outside ME2. Liara's story has so far spanned 2 games and she can't die so there must still be some of her story still to play out.

[KawaiiKatie]

candidate88766 wrote...

I meant that LIs shouldn't be squad members unless there is a better story reason than they're sleeping with Shepard. Being in the game and being able to continue a relationship is something I want for eveyr character, but I only want characters in my squad if it makes sense.

For example, as much as I like Wrex I'd prefer him to stay on Tuchunka and continue his important role with the Korgan than confine himself to a room on the Normandy where he can't do much. Thats why I was hoping  Liara actually wouldn't be on the squad - shes my main LI, but I felt Liara's role as SB was too important for her to drop that and join Shepard on the Normandy. Then again there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for it, and I can't really complain because I seem to be getting most of the ME1 team back together.

Oh, I see what you mean now. And I agree. Though, I have a feeling that Garrus and Tali are full-time squadmates because of their popularity (and there's nothing wrong with that) but I much prefer squadmates who are with Shepard permanently for a good reason, one that is important to the plot.

I'm sure that Garrus and Tali and Liara have excellent reasons for being with Shepard full-time, but personally I always thought that Tali was going to go help the Flotilla, maybe to help the retake the homeworld, or maybe as an Admiral, because in ME2 she mentioned that she was a candidate to replace her father. And I thought that Liara (as you said) was going to gather intel as the Broker. Again, I'm sure that they both have excellent reasons to be with Shepard, I'm just curious to learn why they are with Shepard instead of attending to "personal business" like the rest of the Shepard's old team.

All this said, I can really identify with the fear that some love-interests will get a lot more attention than the others. It is Bioware's complete prerogative to do so, but as a fan of Ash and Kaidan, I remember how jealous I felt when Liara got her own DLC, especially after Ash and Kaidan had been so poorly cameo'd in ME2. I don't think that Bioware did that DLC just because Liara is a love-interest--no, it was because Liara's story was important to the plot and completely warrented her DLC. But in ME3, it would be really great if Bioware gave attention to the old romances who cannot be by Shepard's side throughout the entire story. This is the end of Shepard's story, and if his/her lover cannot be in the whol egame, I would still love to see that relationship explored in a more fulfilling manner, not just a cameo, or a swift reunion at the end.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 09 juin 2011 - 08:58 .

[KawaiiKatie]

candidate88766 wrote...

roflchoppaz wrote...

Liara is the canon romance, don't you know? Other characters just don't exist in the eyes of BioWare.

*grumble* My inner Liara hate is showing, sorry.

Shes not the canon romance, she's just more important to the plot than some other characters. Not all characters have the same importance in the plot - I can't imagine Jacob or Samara having much of a role outside ME2. Liara's story has so far spanned 2 games and she can't die so there must still be some of her story still to play out.

I think there are two halves of this argument. There is the character's story as an individual, and there is the character's story as he or she relates to Shepard.

Liara's story spans two games and she is, as an individual, arguably more "important" than Jacob or Samara. Her story, as a plot point, should be explored even if Shepard is not in a romance with her.

But ultimately, Mass Effect is Shepard's story. If Shepard had a romance with a "less important" character like Jacob or Samara, then that romance should be very important to the overall plot, regardless of how "important" the individual character is. He or she is important to Shepard and has an impact on Shepard, so this should be shown in the game, even if that character can't be by Shepard's side. Yes, Liara may be more "important" to the story as an individual, but if Jacob is my Shepard's lover, he should warrant more content in ME3 than a cameo.

I woul dnot demand that Jacob remain by my side throughout the entire game, but as I've said before, my Shepard should be able to maintain contact with him. It's likely that we'll see the return of the "desk photograph" from ME1, except with our current love-interest. But since ME3 will be the end of Shepard's story, I really want his/her romantic relationship explored in meaningful ways, as those who romanced permanent squadmates can expect.

[Fidget6]

I'm sure if we romanced a character in ME2 we'll at least get some quick nookie, but you're right, it seems the ME1 introduced characters will have most of the focus.

Modifié par Fidget6, 09 juin 2011 - 09:08 .

[Spanky Magoo]

Flashlegend wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

Spanky Magoo wrote...

I hope the bioware guys see this because some of us didn't like tali or either of the virmire survivors as much as the me2 squad. I wish we could choose our squadmates. I have faith they wont screw us but I hope that they see this.

Choosing your own squad just isn't feasible. Why was there so little squad banter in ME2? Why was there so little squad interaction and conflict? Why was Garrus always Calibrating? Because there was just TOO MANY DAMN characters and combinations to be accounted for. ME3 is gonna be hard enough for bioware now that essentially every squad mate you've ever had could be dead at this point, save Liara and the Virmire survivor. If we all want decent squad interaction and more in depth character development, sacrifices need to be made when it comes to squad mate freedom.

I agree sacrifices should be made but if talis already dead for me then all that squad banter they are focusing on with her goes out the window same with garrus so why focus so much on them? I think they should treat all characters equally especially LI because I dont think anyone should feel cheated based on if they romanced a me1 squaddie or a me2 squaddie.

If what your saying was done, and equal focus was put on all 16 of the squad mates you could have had at this point(don't forget new characters) then you can expect the quality of character we find in our squad mates in this go around to be extremely poor. Honestly, giving equal attention to everyone is just a terrible idea.Think of all the possible dialogue they would have to come up with for conversing with every character, character lines on certain levels and lines with other squad mates. If they were to do this we would surely NEVER see more than 2-3 squadmates together simply because we have a ludicrous amount of possible characters that could be there.

Not to mention, Love interests are wonderful and all but for the sake of overall story(which is pretty important if you didn't know) characters which have absolutely no relevance or importamce to the plot should not be given great attention. To be as effective as possible, its best to just take a certain group of characters and focus on them. And really, Bioware knows that more often than not, individual characters we had in ME2 will be alive(unless you purposefully tried to kill them off or were to lazy to reload an earlier save and do the suicide mission properly)

Seriously, it's that simple. This romance feature shouldn't be allowed to put a damper on what these games are about, story and interesting characters.

Isnt the romance feature as small a part as it does play part of the story? Who says that tali is more interesting than say miranda or that ashely is more important than thane? I mean seriously Im just trying to say if importance of character is subjective and if would rather have miranda and grunt than ash/kaiden and tali on some playthroughs why should I be punished with less of an experience for not liking a certain character?

[KawaiiKatie]

Spanky Magoo wrote...

Isnt the romance feature as small a part as it does play part of the story? Who says that tali is more interesting than say miranda or that ashely is more important than thane? I mean seriously Im just trying to say if importance of character is subjective and if would rather have miranda and grunt than ash/kaiden and tali on some playthroughs why should I be punished with less of an experience for not liking a certain character?

I agree with this, and will repeat what I said above: there's a difference between a character that is more "important" to the plot, and a character that is important to Shepard.

Liara is arguably more "important" as a character, if only because her story spans across ME1, ME2 and her own DLC. Shepard's love-interest is arguably the most "important" person in Shepard's story, because he/she provides an emotional connection that gives Shepard something to fight for. (As Mordin said, it's hard to personify the galaxy, but he can think of his favourite nephew, and that makes him want to fight the Reapers.) Just because Liara is more "important" as an individual character, Liara's romance should be no more or less important than any other romantic option in the series.

And at a certain point, the exclusion of content for certain romances does begin to feel like a "punishment" for the player. I've a Shepard who was single through ME1 because I wanted to romance Jack, and if she's reduced to a small cameo slot in ME3 while Liara takes up all of the screentime, I'm going to feel shortchanged, considering that if I had romanced Liara instead, I would have gotten a romance throughout ME1, a reunion in ME2, an entire DLC, and tons of romantic content in ME3. My fear is that I'll feel "punished" for not making the "correct" romantic choice.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 09 juin 2011 - 09:40 .

[knightnblu]

Cheated on Ashley? I think not.

I romanced Ash in ME and when ME2 rolled around I was really looking forward to seeing her again. I fought across Horizon and chased off the bad guys and lo and behold, there's Ash! The one girl that I have been longing to see! She hugs me, calls me a traitor and then leaves saying she will report my "story" to the fleet and see if they believe me because obviously, she doesn't.

She apologizes later, barely, and said that she had changed and so had I, treason does that to a fellow apparently. If she is so psychotic as to not accept the fact that I died, spent two years in surgery to be brought back to continue fighting the Reapers, I would think that she would surmise that I have a valid reason for my sudden appearance and actions. Further, despite having asked Anderson where she was and being told she was on mission and it was classified, I would think that I also had an acceptable reason for not contacting her as well.

We served together, I took her on nearly every mission, and we did the horizontal mambo on my cabin before defying death and saving the galaxy. If anyone should know me, I would think that she would. So when I say that I don't answer to Cerberus, I don't believe that it would be much of a stretch for her to believe me. Personally, I would have thought that she would be amazed to see me walking around after my stint in space as a floating corpscicle, but no, that apparently happens all of the time. In fact, I daresay that Ashley would be able to regale you of dozens of tales of revived corpscicles who remained true to the William's principles, whatever the hell that means. So I ask you, how in the name of God did I cheat on her when I bedded Miranda or Tali on subsequent plays?

'Cause unless I missed something, she left me on Horizon when she hung me out to dry as a traitor to her, Anderson, and the Alliance. You can't do what she did and then claim it was all just a big misunderstanding and say that we will all laugh about this later. She may be back and she may be smoking hot, but she burned that bridge herself. Frankly, I don't even want her on my ship and she can go play with the Fifth fleet and Hackett for all I care.

I don't owe her anything, much less any loyalty. Miranda on the other hand, stood by me and resigned from Cerberus when TIM told her to ice me so that he could keep the Collector facility. That's who I owe my allegiance to, not Ashley.

[KawaiiKatie]

knightnblu wrote...

I don't owe [Ashley] anything, much less any loyalty. Miranda on the other hand, stood by me and resigned from Cerberus when TIM told her to ice me so that he could keep the Collector facility. That's who I owe my allegiance to, not Ashley.

While the bulk of your post is off-topic, I will say that if your relationship with Miranda has become more meaningful to your Shepard than his realtionship with Ashley, and yet Miranda isn't a permanent squadmate, there should be an option in ME3 that allows your Shepard to have frequent contact with Miranda, even though Ashley is the one fighting beside Shepard.