251 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

So, Mass Effect had what I think was a terrific stat-driven aiming mechanic.  It was the first time I'd seen a shooter with stat-driven aiming.  It basically took traditional RPG target selection and converted it to an analog process so that it would fit inside a shooter interface.

I really liked it.

Then Mass Effect 2 took that away.  I have a great many complaints about that, but what's important here is that ME2 still allowed the player to aim while paused, thus eliminating the need to have player skill determine Shepard's accuracy.

I think this is very important.  If Shepard's an elite soldier, her accuracy should not depend on my accuracy.  She shouldn't shoot less well if I'm drunk, or if I'm injured, and she shouldn't shoot more accurately just because I got some practise.

The ability to aim while paused saved ME2's combat from becoming nothing more than an action game.  Without it, I likely would have found the game unplayable.  On this topic, I have several questions about ME3:

Can we still aim while paused in ME3?

Will there be any stat-driven effects affecting aiming or damage (which can serve as an abstraction of accuracy)?

Can we still trigger biotic and tech abilities while paused?

Will we finally be able to use a scope while paused?

Will we finally be able to trigger a weapon while paused?

[GnusmasTHX]

I use a Mouse, so IDK what you're talking about.

[Aimi]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So, Mass Effect had what I think was a terrific stat-driven aiming mechanic.  It was the first time I'd seen a shooter with stat-driven aiming.  It basically took traditional RPG target selection and converted it to an analog process so that it would fit inside a shooter interface.

I really liked it.

Then Mass Effect 2 took that away.  I have a great many complaints about that, but what's important here is that ME2 still allowed the player to aim while paused, thus eliminating the need to have player skill determine Shepard's accuracy.

I think this is very important.  If Shepard's an elite soldier, her accuracy should not depend on my accuracy.  She shouldn't shoot less well if I'm drunk, or if I'm injured, and she shouldn't shoot more accurately just because I got some practise.

The ability to aim while paused saved ME2's combat from becoming nothing more than an action game.  Without it, I likely would have found the game unplayable.  On this topic, I have several questions about ME3:

Can we still aim while paused in ME3?

Will there be any stat-driven effects affecting aiming or damage (which can serve as an abstraction of accuracy)?

Can we still trigger biotic and tech abilities while paused?

Will we finally be able to use a scope while paused?

Will we finally be able to trigger a weapon while paused?

Excellent satire, sir.  I approve. 

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Can we still aim while paused in ME3?

Will there be any stat-driven effects affecting aiming or damage (which can serve as an abstraction of accuracy)?

Can we still trigger biotic and tech abilities while paused?

Will we finally be able to use a scope while paused?

Will we finally be able to trigger a weapon while paused?

I sincerely hope not. These were the worst ideas ever implemented in a shooter and it was a darn good thing they got rid of them for the most part in ME2.


Shooter mechanics and RPG mechanics operate on intuitions that are directly contradictory of each other. Trying to mix stat based aiming with mouse based aiming was a horrible horrible idea. I'm not saying that ME3 should be a shooter and not an RPG, but it should be one and not the other. Whichever one it does happen to be.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 09 juin 2011 - 08:34 .

[Mr.House]

I hope not, it was horrible in ME for snipers. ME2 did it better, just give me more powers.

[sp0ck 06]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So, Mass Effect had what I think was a terrific stat-driven aiming mechanic.  It was the first time I'd seen a shooter with stat-driven aiming.  It basically took traditional RPG target selection and converted it to an analog process so that it would fit inside a shooter interface.

I really liked it.

Then Mass Effect 2 took that away.  I have a great many complaints about that, but what's important here is that ME2 still allowed the player to aim while paused, thus eliminating the need to have player skill determine Shepard's accuracy.

I think this is very important.  If Shepard's an elite soldier, her accuracy should not depend on my accuracy.  She shouldn't shoot less well if I'm drunk, or if I'm injured, and she shouldn't shoot more accurately just because I got some practise.

The ability to aim while paused saved ME2's combat from becoming nothing more than an action game.  Without it, I likely would have found the game unplayable.  On this topic, I have several questions about ME3:

Can we still aim while paused in ME3?

Will there be any stat-driven effects affecting aiming or damage (which can serve as an abstraction of accuracy)?

Can we still trigger biotic and tech abilities while paused?

Will we finally be able to use a scope while paused?

Will we finally be able to trigger a weapon while paused?

ME3's combat looks to be very similar to ME2, with some added bells and whistles like rolling and smoother controls.

I wuld assume the power wheel will remain the same, although I don't think it was ever intended to be used as a "pause and shoot" interface.  

You can mod your weapons to change rate of fire, damage, and magazine capacity (might be more you can modify), but accuracy seems to be the same as ME2.

IMO, ME1's system was horrible.  If I aim my weapon at a target it should hit regardless of "weapon skill" or anything like that.  Fallout 3 was unplayable for me because I would blast a mob point blank with a shotgun only to "miss."  But if that's your thing, thats cool, although ME2 and 3 combat might not be for you.

[In Exile]

daqs wrote..
Excellent satire, sir.  I approve. 

That isn't satire. This is Sylvius's position on combat, and it's very likely that without aim to pause ME3 will be borderline or actually unplayable for him.

[AlanC9]

daqs wrote...
Excellent satire, sir.  I approve. 

AFAIK Sylvius has never posted satire.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Can we still aim while paused in ME3?

Will there be any stat-driven effects affecting aiming or damage (which can serve as an abstraction of accuracy)?

Can we still trigger biotic and tech abilities while paused?

Will we finally be able to use a scope while paused?

Will we finally be able to trigger a weapon while paused?

I sincerely hope not.

I should make it clear that I hope all of the answers to these questions are "Yes".

[the_one_54321]

AlanC9 wrote...

daqs wrote...
Excellent satire, sir.  I approve. 

AFAIK Sylvius has never posted satire.

AFAIK Sylvius is incapable of intentional humor.

Which makes him a very interesting conversationalist.

[Aimi]

In Exile wrote...

daqs wrote..
Excellent satire, sir.  I approve. 

That isn't satire. This is Sylvius's position on combat, and it's very likely that without aim to pause ME3 will be borderline or actually unplayable for him.

That's...mildly horrifying.

[Lumikki]

I just comment here. Mass Effect serie is combination of action RPG and TPS. Player aiming is neccassary for TPS side. So, no character stat based aiming thanks.

[mjh417]

I mean from what I can tell all the thing your talking about will work just like they did in ME2, so if you made it through that fine, I think you'll be good here.

[AlanC9]

daqs wrote...

That's...mildly horrifying.

I'm pretty sure Sylvius will find your horror irrelevant.

The man wants RPG-style combat; nothing wrong with that. But I fear he's unlikely to get what he wants. I'm pretty sure Bio devs consider this subject closed.

[marshalleck]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So, Mass Effect had what I think was a terrific stat-driven aiming mechanic. 

I had to stop reading here. Just more proof that your concept of a good game or good mechanics are utterly irreconcilable with mine. 

[Siven80]

See while i respect your passion about stat driven games....ME isnt a stat driven game anymore, its a shooter with some rpg features.

[the_one_54321]

AlanC9 wrote...
I'm pretty sure Sylvius will find your horror irrelevant.

That sounds like a line from one of those really evil super villains. "Your horror is irrelevant."

[Sylvius the Mad]

Siven80 wrote...

See while i respect your passion about stat driven games....ME isnt a stat driven game anymore, its a shooter with some rpg features.

Stat-driven combat is an RPG feature.

I'm not making demands.  I'm just asking questions.

the_one_54321 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I'm pretty sure Sylvius will find your horror irrelevant.

That sounds like a line from one of those really evil super villains. "Your horror is irrelevant."

That is a terrific line.

[AlanC9]

the_one_54321 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I'm pretty sure Sylvius will find your horror irrelevant.

That sounds like a line from one of those really evil super villains. "Your horror is irrelevant."

I was actually thinking of Sovereign.  

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...
I was actually thinking of Sovereign.  

We exist because it's not logically impossible we don't?

On topic:

I think that so long as the power wheel is present, pause aim as Sylvius sees it will persist.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

We exist because it's not logically impossible we don't?

We can safely presume we exist because it's not logically impossible we don't

On topic:

I think that so long as the power wheel is present, pause aim as Sylvius sees it will persist.

I would expect that, as well, but this is exactly the sort of feature they seem to be inclined to remove from these more actiony games, simply on the grounds that they didn't intend them to be used in that way (and somehow encouraging specific gameplay outcomes is desirable, which I don't understand at all).

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
We can safely presume we exist because it's not logically impossible we don't.

Ah, I see the error.

I would expect that, as well, but this is exactly the sort of feature they seem to be inclined to remove from these more actiony games, simply on the grounds that they didn't intend them to be used in that way (and somehow encouraging specific gameplay outcomes is desirable, which I don't understand at all).

So long as ME has powers, the console needs an interface to use them, and the radial menu is ideal. Since I can't see any way the radial menu is gone in the console version, I'm sure the PC version will have it too, so essentially the interface is safe for you.

[Malanek]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Then Mass Effect 2 took that away.  I have a great many complaints about that, but what's important here is that ME2 still allowed the player to aim while paused, thus eliminating the need to have player skill determine Shepard's accuracy.

It must take you quite a while to play through the game.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

One of RPGs' most annoying elements, aside from grinding, are stats (usually in the form of strength, dexterity, etc). Good riddance, I say. I prefer ME 2's combat over things like turn-based fighting, and ME1's crippling of the guns that you're not trained in.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Malanek999 wrote...

It must take you quite a while to play through the game.

I don't pause to aim for every shot. Just the shots I need to make quickly.

I tend to use a sniper rifle all of the time, which not only gives me more time to aim, but we also can't aim while paused when using the scope. So I only needed to aim while paused when I switched to another weapon (which I basically never did in ME, but had to in ME2 because of that appalling ammo system).

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 09 juin 2011 - 09:28 .