251 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Good riddance, I say.

Because we could aim while paused, ME2 effectively gave us both systems.  I'm hoping that continues.

[Dragoncloud]

only 'aiming' i recall on my box was when targetting my powers, couldnt aim when paused at all when using weapons, atleast in me1 my crappy aiming skills on the 360 weren't overly obvious.
In me2 on my 360 i mostly used my biotics (reave & overload = win more or less <<) & once in a while my smg (to take out what my powers couldnt).

Now that i'm giving the free me2 i got with my da2 on pc a go i can finally see why people like sniping so much, it was impossible to do for my sentinel on my box as my aiming just doesnt move fast enough for the actual pointing to the head.

I really do hope they give players the option to turn on a sort of half auto aiming feature (or stat driven accuracy) as i can alread see myself being shredded to bits often simply because i cant move my camera fast enough to aim with a sniper scope (other weapons were ok'ish, but still a pain to actually hit moving targets).

[Sylvius the Mad]

ME2 had a sort of auto-aim, didn't it? At least on consoles?

[Inutaisho7996]

www.youtube.com/watch

[the_one_54321]

Dragoncloud wrote...
I really do hope they give players the option to turn on a sort of half auto aiming feature (or stat driven accuracy) as i can alread see myself being shredded to bits often simply because i cant move my camera fast enough to aim with a sniper scope (other weapons were ok'ish, but still a pain to actually hit moving targets).

Then you and the few others that want only stat driven mechanics will be happy while everyone that is accustomed to actually playing shooters like shooters will find it unworkable. Being stuck in the middle of these two systems is a horrible place to be. ME should either just be a shooter with some leveling elements, or just be stat driven with some action elements.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 09 juin 2011 - 09:59 .

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ME2 had a sort of auto-aim, didn't it? At least on consoles?

I think it's optional.  I just use the analog sticks to aim (sometimes in conjunction with the zoom function), and shoot.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 09 juin 2011 - 11:04 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Then you and the few others that want only stat driven mechanics will be happy while everyone that is accustomed to actually playing shooters like shooters will find it unworkable. Being stuck in the middle of these two systems is a horrible place to be. ME should either just be a shooter with some leveling elements, or just be stat driven with some action elements.

By that reasoning, all games should be shooters.

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ME2 had a sort of auto-aim, didn't it? At least on consoles?

I think it's optional.

It wasn't in the PC version at all.

[Malanek]

There was a discussion about that from the devs who from memory said that basically every shooter on a console has some sort of aim assist mechanism and they went on to list all the different ways they were implemented. It was quite interesting but it had nothing to do with character stats.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Malanek999 wrote...

There was a discussion about that from the devs who from memory said that basically every shooter on a console has some sort of aim assist mechanism and they went on to list all the different ways they were implemented. It was quite interesting but it had nothing to do with character stats.

Sure, but it still reduces the game's reliance on player skill.

I wish they hadn't removed it from the PC version.

[Malanek]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

There was a discussion about that from the devs who from memory said that basically every shooter on a console has some sort of aim assist mechanism and they went on to list all the different ways they were implemented. It was quite interesting but it had nothing to do with character stats.

Sure, but it still reduces the game's reliance on player skill.

I wish they hadn't removed it from the PC version.

They don't really reduce the need for player skill. Gamepads are just not quite as precise as a mouse for a pointing device. Despite having aim assist mechanisms built in, I find shooters much more difficult on consoles than on the PC, although I am not as used to them. I think the main problem you are having is the type of game it is. The vast majority of people preferred the gameplay (story is a different issue) in ME2 compared to ME1. I don't think there is any chance they would go back to that.

[RevanCousland]

well im an rpg fan and dont have a problem with ME2's shooter combat cuz i play shooters as well i just want ME3 to have more rpg elements not be fully an rpg or a shooter but a perfect blend of both.

[Epic777]

Most RPGs there is a level of abstraction in the combat, the player selects commands for their character to attack however in shooters practicality TPS/FPS you are in complete direct control. Aiming at an enemies head and then "missing" because of stats or dice rolls doesn't make sense. Kotor had good combat in the third person because the abstract was never removed. Once that abstraction is removed and the game gives the player control, they should not be controlled directly by RPG style stats.http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/5561862/8#5569383

[Lumikki]

How about assistant options in game settings to adjust with slider how much assitance you want game to do for your targeting. So every player can put it way they like and works best for them? Would not matter is it PC or console or how it's controlled.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 juin 2011 - 12:29 .

[lazuli]

marshalleck wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So, Mass Effect had what I think was a terrific stat-driven aiming mechanic. 

I had to stop reading here. Just more proof that your concept of a good game or good mechanics are utterly irreconcilable with mine. 

Same.  I cannot get past that.  This is one of those situations in which I must hope for another person's disappointment.  Sorry, Sylvius, but I really hope you don't get what you want*.


*Aiming while paused is fine with me.

[Homebound]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

So, Mass Effect had what I think was a terrific stat-driven aiming mechanic.  It was the first time I'd seen a shooter with stat-driven aiming.  It basically took traditional RPG target selection and converted it to an analog process so that it would fit inside a shooter interface.

I really liked it.

Then Mass Effect 2 took that away.  I have a great many complaints about that, but what's important here is that ME2 still allowed the player to aim while paused, thus eliminating the need to have player skill determine Shepard's accuracy.

I think this is very important.  If Shepard's an elite soldier, her accuracy should not depend on my accuracy.  She shouldn't shoot less well if I'm drunk, or if I'm injured, and she shouldn't shoot more accurately just because I got some practise.

The ability to aim while paused saved ME2's combat from becoming nothing more than an action game.  Without it, I likely would have found the game unplayable.  On this topic, I have several questions about ME3:

Can we still aim while paused in ME3?

Will there be any stat-driven effects affecting aiming or damage (which can serve as an abstraction of accuracy)?

Can we still trigger biotic and tech abilities while paused?

Will we finally be able to use a scope while paused?

Will we finally be able to trigger a weapon while paused?

r u....r u serious?

[Collider]

No stat-based aiming. I want to shoot where I aim my crosshair.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Yes you can still pause and aim... they showed it and the power selection in one of the demo videos... as for having stats determine how accurate you are....

um, HELL NO. If I aim my gun at an enemy and shoot... I expect them to be hit by my shot... not b/c some hidden stat says that I can't shoot thus making my shot go off to the right.... that's just stupid.

[tobynator89]

I am so glad that TCs kind is a minority and a dying breed to boot.

[Mann42]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Can we still aim while paused in ME3?

Will there be any stat-driven effects affecting aiming or damage (which can serve as an abstraction of accuracy)?

Can we still trigger biotic and tech abilities while paused?

Will we finally be able to use a scope while paused?

Will we finally be able to trigger a weapon while paused?

I personally dislike statistics, attributes, and die rolls to determine whether or not I can hit a target in Mass Effect because I'm actually decent at aiming at things in the game and shooting them in the head, even when drunk. By extension, I do not want Bioware to leave me at the mercy of a random die roller to determine my success. I want to rely on my own skill.

I know this might sound strange to some people, but Mass Effect behaving like a shooter enhances my immersion and my role playing experience. I don't like to pause, I like being forced to aim and react quickly, kicking up my adrenaline, just like Shepard. It immerses me. Mass Effect becoming a better shooter has made it a better RPG for me.

However, I completely sympathize with you, and I don't think your questions are unreasonable. I think that, in order to be the best possible game, Mass Effect should have layered gameplay that can appeal to both types of players. 

I don't see why they couldn't include 'accuracy' upgrades for weapons that provide aim assistance or increase the reticle size for players that want the help. I won't use those upgrades, and I shouldn't be penalized for NOT using them, but I don't see why they couldn't be in the game for those who want that layer of assistance. 

Triggering powers while paused makes sense, especially since you may still need to take a break from the action to trigger squad powers, and you'll want to know they activated. Taking it out seems like a step backwards. 

As for firing and aiming through a scope while paused, I also don't see a problem. Those may not be features I use, but I don't see how they'd be impossible to implement or would cheapen the game. In fact it seems like it would broaden the appeal, being more inclusive to both shooter and RPG fans. 

Anyway, I may not use the feature set, but I hope you get what you want! It seems like Bioware would be silly to not give players like you these options, as long as they don't force me to use them.

Modifié par nexworks, 10 juin 2011 - 02:58 .

[Bogsnot1]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Then
you and the few others that want only stat driven mechanics will be
happy while everyone that is accustomed to actually playing shooters
like shooters will find it unworkable. Being stuck in the middle of
these two systems is a horrible place to be. ME should either just be a
shooter with some leveling elements, or just be stat driven with some
action elements.

By that reasoning, all games should be shooters.

Neverwinter_Knight77 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
ME2 had a sort of auto-aim, didn't it? At least on consoles?

I think it's optional.

It wasn't in the PC version at all.

Edit the coalesced.ini
[SFXGame.SFXGameConfig]
bAimAssistEnabled=false

Change to true and you're set.

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 10 juin 2011 - 03:05 .

[Bogsnot1]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

Yes you can still pause and aim... they showed it and the power selection in one of the demo videos... as for having stats determine how accurate you are....

um, HELL NO. If I aim my gun at an enemy and shoot... I expect them to be hit by my shot... not b/c some hidden stat says that I can't shoot thus making my shot go off to the right.... that's just stupid.

So without spending any time on the firing range, you expect yourself to be an expert marksman? Thats what those "hidden stats" represented, how much training you put into using those weapons. Its not stupid, its logical.

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
By that reasoning, all games should be shooters.

No, by that reasoning shooters should be shooters. There are genre distinctions because particular combinations of mechanics work very well. Mix-and-match is as likely to turn up with crap as with gold.

[Aimi]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

So without spending any time on the firing range, you expect yourself to be an expert marksman? Thats what those "hidden stats" represented, how much training you put into using those weapons. Its not stupid, its logical.

But Shepard has spent time on the firing range; she's a veteran of an elite segment of the Alliance military.

[sp0ck 06]

Sylvius,
Any video game you ever play will be based at least somewhat on your ability to manipulate a controller or have a big high def tv. My character wouldnt be staggering around from crappy fps. Your character will always be based on playing a videogame, so how is Mass Effect requiring at least some basic skill at shooter games any different?

[Beerfish]

Mr.House wrote...

I hope not, it was horrible in ME for snipers. ME2 did it better, just give me more powers.

I had no problem with the sniper rifle in ME.  If forced you to put points into it and get good weapons to be able to use it properly and snipping was very very powerful.  I am playing ME again almost as I type and I always invest in sniper and I feel it is worth putting points into.