104 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sylvius, more than any other forum member, I have faith in your ability to fail.

Then put it in the game.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sylvius, more than any other forum member, I have faith in your ability to fail.

Chris, I fear you, and I'mma let you finish, but Sylvius had the BEST argument of all time! OF ALL TIME!

[alx119]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sylvius, more than any other forum member, I have faith in your ability to fail.

You guys are so subtle sometimes LMAO 

[CaptainZaysh]

Zing!

[Niddy']

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sylvius, more than any other forum member, I have faith in your ability to fail.

Then put it in the game.

Naw, Shepard killing Reapers with machine guns is cooler.

[Arbiter156]

I hope we can so that it doesn't make the ending easy like ME2. You had to aim to die in ME2. It should be not impossible to avoid some level of sacrifice but I think the reapers winning should catch even confident players off guard otherwise if we succeed first time we know exactly what to do next time.

I'll post what I said in a previous thread I made one moment...

[upsettingshorts]

Considering that this was possible in Dragon Age 2 - depending on the goals your Hawke set for him or herself, it's a valid question I think.

However, given how ME1-2 played out... I doubt it. That being said, given how statements of how only imported saves can get the "best" ending, it is implied that there are varying degrees of "success" in terms of the endgame, which - given the circumstances - works for me.

Interestingly on a meta-level I have the most "faith" in Sylvius failing as well, because he roleplays 100% of the time, even in combat.  I can respect this.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 09 juin 2011 - 11:27 .

[themastakillah]

well they can add an insanity+ difficulty were if u die ur pg gets deleted for good without the possibility of reloading.

Modifié par themastakillah, 09 juin 2011 - 11:27 .

[Malanek]

ME2 had this feature and Arrival had it as well, but you had to work really hard to get it. Youtube for the win.

Modifié par Malanek999, 09 juin 2011 - 11:28 .

[Arbiter156]

news has been pouring out of E3, and bioware has given us a taste of what is to come. however they have not talked about  the various RPG elements they are supposedly putting in, and most importantly to me how the endings will diverge.

my biggest wish for ME3 is to have an ending where the reapers win.

allow me to explain, firstly bioware has really talked up how the players choices will have consequences. now the end of mass effect 2 had you defeat the collectors and finsh their dastardly plans. the only real sense of consequence i felt was if shepard died, because by default no matter how badly you do the collectors are defeated and the normandy escapes with or without shepard.

secondly in order to get the worst case scenario (which still ends with the collectors defeat) you had to specifically aim for it. this didnt  really feel like a challenge to survive to suicide mission and gave very little feeling of consequence aside from when your favorite squadmate dies.

in order for ME3 to really hammer home mass effects theme of choice and consequence, there has to be an ending where the reapers win, the allied fleets are destroyed, shepard & Co are killed and the reapers cycle of genocide continues.

not only this but this "worst case" ending should take even confident players by surprise. it should just as much be based on the decisions the player has made over the 3 games as on how well they actually play (becoming harder with increased difficulty levels).

in short there should be:

1/3 endings: goody goody, reapers defeated, everyone surives, talimancers go live with tali aboard the floatila etc.

1/3 endings: reapers defeated, varying levels of sacrifice, shepard may or may not die, possible character deaths, some races may go extinct etc.

1/3 endings: reapers victorious, shepard dies, everyone dies, all races exterminated, reapers cycle continues.

if bioware confirms what i hope my fears will be laid to rest and my only real niggles would be with the RPG elements.

[Ryzaki]

I hope there's a throwback to JE where you can choose to join Harbinger or tell him where to shove it.

[Zimary]

To put it as simply as possible:

Yes we can!!

[upsettingshorts]

While I wouldn't mind that, I wouldn't mind a lot of "various ways to win with various consequences" either.

[XX55XX]

Joining the Reapers sounds cool. Wonder if they end up becoming the good guys in the end?

[Alamar2078]

I think that depending on your choices you should be able to "fail" and you see one or more various "reaper wins" scenes / epilogues / etc.

However I hope that there is at least some slim option to "win" even if you make the worst possible decisions until "late in the game". Granted if you do everything wrong the only "win" situation may mean a self-sacrifice of Shep, Earth, etc. but something should still be there even if it's not a great sort of thing.

YMMV.

[Leonia]

How do you define success? Saving Earth? Wiping out all the Reapers? Doing what the Protheans did and setting things up for the next cycle?

Casey has already said that we won't get a super happy ending with victory parades and drinking celebrations. I imagine we'll be "successful" regardless of which ending we get but there will be varying degrees of this and none of those successes should really be entirely perfect for everybody in the galaxy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ryzaki wrote...

I hope there's a throwback to JE where you can choose to join Harbinger or tell him where to shove it.

JE is an interesting example, as I would argue that the Closed Fist ending is itself a failure ending.

The game explains in great detail how the continued enslavement of the Water Dragon is destroying the world, and can only result is death and destruction for everything.  And then you're allowed to take over and keep the Water Dragon enslaved.

The game doesn't explain that you've just destroyed the world, and you'll eventually be the despotic ruler over nothing at all, but it's required by the previously established lore.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Considering that this was possible in Dragon Age 2 - depending on the goals your Hawke set for him or herself, it's a valid question I think.

You just guaranteed that I will finish DA2.

Thanks.  I'd been looking for some motivation - that's it.

[Lumikki]

Not sure, but I think you should be able to fail. That's not really issue to anyone, player can try again if they do. I think failing would be even equal possible, because this is last of the Shepard game. To try the best what we can.

Past choises leading to failure as total cause of it. That's not really acceptable. How ever, that doesn't mean past choises can't make it more difficult or easyer.

Modifié par Lumikki, 09 juin 2011 - 11:42 .

[ipgd]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

It would be completely irrational for players who want one ending to be annoyed by the existence of another ending, unless they're making zot arguments.

It does affect continuations, though. If "failure" is not just treated as a non-standard game over there will be no more games in the Mass Effect series due to the possibility of galactic civilization being wiped out. You can look to the non-handling of DAO's OGB as an example of other endings affecting another (i.e. that OGB will never be relevant in future installments due to the fact it wouldn't exist in half of people's games, precluded by resources).

I think it is better to give options that can be conclusively followed up, given the intention to follow them up, without contradicting eachother in such a fashion that they cannot ever be addressed without essentially requiring two different games to be made. Retcons/canonization, bottlenecking and ignoring choices annoys me more than having options more limited in scope.

For an end-of-the-series thing where there is no intent of ever seeing those consequences through, sure, but Bioware obviously isn't going to stop with ME3 given its popularity.

[lietk12]

I would like to see a sliding scale of win/fail, e.g. one ending in which Shepard is able to change things for the next cycle of aliens to have a better shot against the Reapers, as the Protheans had done.

Modifié par lietk12, 09 juin 2011 - 11:49 .

[Someone With Mass]

Of course we can fail. If we don't pay attention and aren't doing the right things.

[Beerfish]

You are allowed to fail in each and every game. The moment you die the 1st time do not reload. You are dead....you have no idea what happens after that, never play the game again. For people wanting true and logical immersion and choice, the choice is right there stabbing you in the face.

[graciegrace]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Did DAO have an end where you failed to kill the archdemon? No.
Did ME1 give you an option to join Saren? No.
Did ME2 have an ending where you failed your mission and the Collectors continued their harvest of human colonies? No.

All these games give you an objective. In ME3, the objective is stop the Reapers. And this will happen, this must happen, otherwise the entire point of the Mass Effect series is moot and void.

If victory is guaranteed, then the entire point of playing the game disasppears.  If Shepard was always going to succeed, why am I bothering to play the game.

That those other games you list don't offer this feature doesn't prevent it from being a good feature.  It's just an underused feature.

Ostensibly, you're playing the game because you want Shepard --and by proxy, you the player-- to succeed. Shepard couldn't have done it without you, because you are Shepard. And victory is not garanteed. You can get killed during combat, or due to a particularly dumb choice --like attempting to meld with an Aradt-Yakshi.

Ostensibly, the end of a game is supposed to be the ultimate reward. If a player made the "incorrect" choices that ultimately led to a "failure" ending, that would be no reward. The way I see it, it would be to the player like the game was telling them "You failed. You made stupid, wrong decisions".

Now, there's another way you can fail and the game tells you so; it's called being killed in combat. The difference between these two failure endings is one would necessitate a massive amount of backtracking and meta-gaming in order to attain the ending that I feel quite confident in saying that most of the player base would want. And the other ending does not.

In short; I think having a "failure" ending would be unneccesary and would be a distinct punishment for players finishing the game, which in and of itself is supposed to be a reward.

This is stupid.  It'd be a stupid and cheap cop-out should Bioware make your previous decisions all lead to a good end regardless of what you did.  It would make the idea of making tough decisions moot, because no matter what you chose, you can't lose.

That's not thekind of universe that Bioware's set up here.  Considering they allow Shephard to die in ME2, giving a large glorified game over and making the character file moot because it cannot be transfered into ME3 in that fashion.  It'd be an INCREDIBLE disappointment if they only gave this sorta ending to the middle game and not the finale.'

In short; there has to be a bad end, because it makes the good end all that much more of a reward.  There's no point unless there's a bad end to fight against.

[TheBlackBaron]

While not having outright failure beyond simply dying, the ending of Van Buren (Black Isle's original Fallout 3) may be akin to what I think Bioware is trying to shoot for with the ME3 endings.

In a nutshell, the goal was to stop an NCR scientist from using the nuclear missiles aboard the Ballistic Orbital Missile Base (B.O.M.B.) to destroy the wasteland communities. Long story short, by the time you killed him and deactivated the B.O.M.B. only some of the missiles can be recalled. So you had to pick which of the societies you had encountered in the game would be spared and which ones would go up in mushroom clouds.

This is what it feels like Bioware is going for, with not being able to achieve a perfect victory that is all sunshine and ponies crapping rainbows (like the ME1 Paragon ending *cough*). So it's not just "you lose, ha ha sucker", and the degree of failure can be changed by choices, but victory will not be absolute.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 10 juin 2011 - 12:08 .