104 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

LPPrince wrote...

If you failed at the end and couldn't reload, the game would BLOW.

Good thing no one is suggesting that.

I don't think the protagonist failing is necessarily indicative of the player having failed.  I'd like to see opportunities for the player's choices to result in his character failing to achieve his objectives.

I insist that the player succeeds whenever he stays in-character and makes in-character decisions.  The failure I'm asking about is character failure, not player failure.

[Rake21]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

If you failed at the end and couldn't reload, the game would BLOW.

Good thing no one is suggesting that.

I don't think the protagonist failing is necessarily indicative of the player having failed.  I'd like to see opportunities for the player's choices to result in his character failing to achieve his objectives.

I insist that the player succeeds whenever he stays in-character and makes in-character decisions.  The failure I'm asking about is character failure, not player failure.

Something like what's going on in the Witcher 2?  I've failed a mission in it by making a bad choice that led to an innocent person being killed.  No gameover, instead you have to continue on with that.

I wouldn't mind something along those lines.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rake21 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

If you failed at the end and couldn't reload, the game would BLOW.

Good thing no one is suggesting that.

I don't think the protagonist failing is necessarily indicative of the player having failed.  I'd like to see opportunities for the player's choices to result in his character failing to achieve his objectives.

I insist that the player succeeds whenever he stays in-character and makes in-character decisions.  The failure I'm asking about is character failure, not player failure.

Something like what's going on in the Witcher 2?  I've failed a mission in it by making a bad choice that led to an innocent person being killed.  No gameover, instead you have to continue on with that.

I wouldn't mind something along those lines.

And I'd also like to see that at the end of the game.  If you make a bad decision, or perform some task badly, the game ends with everyone dying and the Reapers win.  If you then want to load a saved and replay the last hour to try to get a different result, go right ahead.

But having Shepard's victory guaranteed in all cases where she stays alive is kind of silly.

ME1 almost did this.  At the conduit, if you didn't reach it in time you couldn't finish the game.  The game did just give you a game over scren, which is unfortunate, but that was a situation where Shepard failed despite not dying.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 10 juin 2011 - 04:06 .

[Rake21]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

And I'd also like to see that at the end of the game.  If you make a bad decision, or perform some task badly, the game ends with everyone dying and the Reapers win.  If you then want to load a saved and replay the last hour to try to get a different result, go right ahead.

But having Shepard's victory guaranteed in all cases where she stays alive is kind of silly.

ME1 almost did this.  At the conduit, if you didn't reach it in time you couldn't finish the game.  The game did just give you a game over scren, which is unfortunate, but that was a situation where Shepard failed despite not dying.

I can get behind that.  They actually did it in ME2, twice.  In Arrival, you could let the timer for the Reapers arrival reach zero, and then you get a siezure inducing cut scene of their invasion.  And also, Shepard could die during the suicide mission, and that's the end of the game.  You could reload, but Shep could still lose.

[FieryDove]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Sylvius, more than any other forum member, I have faith in your ability to fail.

That would make an excellent tagline...

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rake21 wrote...

I can get behind that.  They actually did it in ME2, twice.  In Arrival, you could let the timer for the Reapers arrival reach zero, and then you get a siezure inducing cut scene of their invasion.  And also, Shepard could die during the suicide mission, and that's the end of the game.  You could reload, but Shep could still lose.

Right, so it's not an unreasonable request.

I also don't think BioWare can actually answer the question without spoiling their own game, so really I just want to raise the issue in the minds of the consumers.  If it's something people want, BioWare is more likely to provide it.

[TheBlackBaron]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ME1 almost did this.  At the conduit, if you didn't reach it in time you couldn't finish the game.  The game did just give you a game over scren, which is unfortunate, but that was a situation where Shepard failed despite not dying.

Well, yes, but failing some critical objective and immediately cutting to a Reapers win ending would just be a particularly elaborate game over screen, right? Especially since most will simply reload to an earlier save and try again.

[Sylvius the Mad]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Well, yes, but failing some critical objective and immediately cutting to a Reapers win ending would just be a particularly elaborate game over screen, right?

So is the ending cutscene that's in the game now.  What's the difference?

I'd like the game to acknowledge that success isn't guaranteed.

[Oblivious]

Ouch straight from Priestly

[Mordaedil]

See; Chrono Trigger.

[Robhuzz]

So 'failing' ME3's storyline... Would that include some menacing comments by Harbinger on how he has failed? Personally I think failing ME3 would have to include some Harbinger dialogue like:

"Shepard has fallen, preserve his body and bring him to me"
or
"Shepard, as you have failed so will your species"
okay final one
"You fought against inevitability, and lost"

Modifié par Robhuzz, 10 juin 2011 - 07:40 .

[MadLaughter]

That was a **** thing to say, Priestley. I've never cared for the contempt you've shown the fans, but you may have outdone yourself.

[pnutbuttr]

I thought this was the Dragon Age 2 forum for a second, because as that game has shown for Bioware failure is always an option.

[FDrage]

Considering that ME2 actually did it. Yes you can fail and die. However (iirc) it has been said by the Devs that you can't import that save game one could argue that in the end by dying you have doomed your galaxy to do.so too.
Of course you could argue that you are just not around to witness someone else take up the reign an succeed. Both will be irrelevant to Sheppard as he/she is dead anyway .

Of course by starting new in ME3 you created a parallel universe ...

[Sylvius the Mad]

FDrage wrote...

Both will be irrelevant to Sheppard as he/she is dead anyway.

But I am not Shepard.

[FDrage]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But I am not Shepard.

isnt that metagaming ?

[Sylvius the Mad]

FDrage wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

But I am not Shepard.

isnt that metagaming ?

My roleplaying of my character has to end when my character dies.

That's doesn't affect my level of interest in the game world's events.  Unlike my (dead) character, I could still find out what the ultimate effects of her actions were.

[TheRealJayDee]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Considering that this was possible in Dragon Age 2 - depending on the goals your Hawke set for him or herself, it's a valid question I think.

You just guaranteed that I will finish DA2.

Thanks.  I'd been looking for some motivation - that's it.

Based on my personal experiences from two playthroughs I'd say DA2 is a game that doesn't really offer any outcome besides failure, only varying degrees of it. My first Hawke had very clear and reasonable motivations and goals, and he had reached the level of complete and utter failure before the end of Act 2, making the third act kind of pointless. My second Hawke failed in pretty much everything he did, although it wasn't as completely devastating as with the first. 

Still, I want to be able to not have a happy ending, failing can be fun. I really hope there will be a big chance of failure in ME3, otherwise a good ending wouldn't be much satisfying. But all of it must be based on my (character's) decisions. DA2 never gave me a real chance of winning, no real impact on the outcome of the story, and thus my (character's) failing didn't really touch me. It's possible to make a game and story like that work, but with DA2 BioWare just wasn't up to that task. Oh, all of that imo of course.

But yeah, I want ME3 to have endings that go from "Come on Ashley, let's celebrate our seemingly impossible victory by watching a beautiful sunrise here on Earth" to "It's been an honour serving with you! Now let's give our final salute to organic life in this universe, because we ****ed up..."

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Rake21 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

If you failed at the end and couldn't reload, the game would BLOW.

Good thing no one is suggesting that.

I don't think the protagonist failing is necessarily indicative of the player having failed.  I'd like to see opportunities for the player's choices to result in his character failing to achieve his objectives.

I insist that the player succeeds whenever he stays in-character and makes in-character decisions.  The failure I'm asking about is character failure, not player failure.

Something like what's going on in the Witcher 2?  I've failed a mission in it by making a bad choice that led to an innocent person being killed.  No gameover, instead you have to continue on with that.

I wouldn't mind something along those lines.

And I'd also like to see that at the end of the game.  If you make a bad decision, or perform some task badly, the game ends with everyone dying and the Reapers win.  If you then want to load a saved and replay the last hour to try to get a different result, go right ahead.

But having Shepard's victory guaranteed in all cases where she stays alive is kind of silly.

ME1 almost did this.  At the conduit, if you didn't reach it in time you couldn't finish the game.  The game did just give you a game over scren, which is unfortunate, but that was a situation where Shepard failed despite not dying.

This is one of the better ideas on the BSN... I agree with you! There should be a type of ending where if you made bad choices... (not stupid ones that you had to TRY to do ala the SM in ME2) then you get the Reapers win cut-scene AT THE END OF THE GAME.... not in the middle or if you die in combat as sometimes that can't be helped. 

I hope the devs put something like your idea into effect! It would make the choices you make ACTUALLY matter and it would be way more dramatic. 

[zeoduos]

One of the slogans in the trailer says "Decide How It Ends."
Now, as for how much truth is in that slogan, I don't know.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Can we fail? I sure as hell hope that there is a 90% chance of my 'Worse playthrough' failing considering all the things that Shep has done to screw the pooch in the final chapter. I'm not even going to try succeeding with that playthrough... ok... maybe after I've really frelled things up and got whatever is possibly the worse ending.

I'm actually considering making it my first playthrough, so that I can then begin to see where the 'better' choices improve our odds.

[zeoduos]

Necromancing this thread because I believe that failure really should be an ending option. It would have to be something you do on PURPOSE. Not just a little cutscene with a "Critical mission failure" after, but an ending that truly ends with the Reapers winning.

If all roads lead to the same ending (defeating the reapers in any capacity) then what is the point of fighting?

Just some things to think about.

[AlanC9]

I could accept a failure from my own incompetence, too. I believe Thane and Samara's LMs can be botched by the player in ME2, but there's no further consequence beyond the unacquired loyalty.

[LPPrince]

One time Thane's loyalty mission bugged out for me at the last checkpoint and I failed it for no reason.

Good thing for reloading. Ha.