Aller au contenu

Photo

Press response to E3


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
225 réponses à ce sujet

#201
Il Divo

Il Divo
  • Members
  • 9 775 messages

iakus wrote...

Character class is a broad term, imo.  And it's purpose in an rpg isn't always important.  Customization, however, is.  Two warriors in DAO, even if they pick the same origin, can still play out very differently, for example.  Then there are classless rpg games, such as Fallout, Alpha Protocol, and Jade Empire.  And in Mass Effect, what class Shepard plays is meaningless to the story.


But you have an implied premise here. You've assumed that the rpg just means 'character, dialogue, behavior'. Often enough,it's true that character class has no meaning to those elements I just listed. But from a gameplay perspective, they mean a world of difference.

I offer the DnD example (again). The game is called a 'Role-playing game', not a 'role-playing/statistics' game. An applicable definition needs to take this into account.

I should clarify:  I find most of today's non Bioware rpg games can't really compete...


Then I shall modify my previous claim!

Even non-Bioware rpgs are not always trying to compete. Diablo, Warcraft, and Final Fantasy being chief amongst those. They are games with radically different focuses.

Yes in BG it would have been great to have more dialogue with your companions (especially Minsc) the dialogue you do get sets it above mere sword&sorcery adventure games like Diablo and makes it an "rpg" in my book.  On more than one occasion Minsc will speak up on the righteousness of a given cause, particularly when children are involved.  ANd you can respond with varying degrees of enthusiasm.  I believe in one case you can ask him if he's thought about having some restorative magic performed on his head...:D



But I think you're missing the point here. It's not just about "well, it would have been great for Baldur's Gate to include more dialogue". The game is classified a 'role-playing game' by Bioware.  Yet, if you compare the amount of combat/exploration vs. the dialogue and choices, it still comes out heavily favoring the combat which hasn't affected the genre label.

Let me give you another example:

When Bioware released Mass Effect, the game was labeled an RPG/TPS hybrid. When Baldur's Gate was released, the game was labeled 'role-playing game'.Mass Effect has a far greater emphasis (imo) on story/dialogue than does Baldur's Gate, yet the former is labeled a hybrid while the latter is called rpg.

I agree with you that the story, interaction, and dialogue are all more important. I'd prefer Bioware to make more simple systems (akin to Jade Empire) if it would give them more time for the elements I prefer. I favor pretty much every Bioware game (including Neverwinter Nights) over games like Diablo/WoW. But the elements that appeal to me are not necessarily the only parts of the definition.

#202
onelifecrisis

onelifecrisis
  • Members
  • 2 829 messages

KiraTsukasa wrote...

I thought this thread was to discuss what was shown for ME3 at E3, not an argument over the definition of an acronym.


Over the years I have come to believe that the CIA have developed a secret code for communicating with each other over the internet. An agent will log into a forum and start an argument over what an RPG is. What follows is a coded exchange of information with other agents, with key words like "elements", "mechanics", "stats", "story", "choice", "customization" and "character" all having context-sensitive meanings.

Either that or people are just morons.

#203
Gatt9

Gatt9
  • Members
  • 1 748 messages

Il Divo wrote...
When Bioware released Mass Effect, the game was labeled an RPG/TPS hybrid. When Baldur's Gate was released, the game was labeled 'role-playing game'.Mass Effect has a far greater emphasis (imo) on story/dialogue than does Baldur's Gate, yet the former is labeled a hybrid while the latter is called rpg. 


The reason for that is simple.  An RPG is defined by Character Based Skill,  that is the entire meaning of the word Role,  it is not you,  it is not your abilities,  it is the Role as defined by the Character,  his abilities.

ME2 has no defined Character.  Shepherd has no intrinsic qualities of his own.  If he misses,  it's because you missed.  He cannot fail when he picks a  Paragon option.  This is why it is a TPS.

Story does not define an RPG.  It's entirely possible to have an RPG without any story,  it's just a dungeon crawl,  D&D had more than a few of these,  they've existed in CRPGs(Telengard,  Apshai,  and many others).

Doom had a story.  It took less than a paragraph to tell it,  but it was there.  RPG's are not defined by having stories.

Dialogue does not define an RPG.  It's entirely possible to have an RPG without any Dialogue,  as I stated above,  still holds true.

Wing Commander had Dialogue,  with choices,  it wasn't an RPG.  As have a great many other games over the years.  Monkey Island had dialogue,  King's Quest,  Leisure Suit Larry,  Incredible Journey,  Mysterious Island,  dozens upon dozens of games have dialogue.

Games are defined by their gameplay,  that's exactly what the genre's divide upon.

Modifié par Gatt9, 15 juin 2011 - 04:01 .


#204
Il Divo

Il Divo
  • Members
  • 9 775 messages

Gatt9 wrote...

The reason for that is simple.  An RPG is defined by Character Based Skill,  that is the entire meaning of the word Role,  it is not you,  it is not your abilities,  it is the Role as defined by the Character,  his abilities.


In which case, we still have a misnomer. I am very familiar at this point with your definition of RPG. But your definition still doesn't hold. Bioware never labeled their games RPG/Adventure game hybrids. They called them 'role-playing games'. Yet now, they applied that to games like Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Mass Effect 2. They didn't say we now make 'RPG/Adventure game' hybrids.

How a community looks upon a definition is the definition. In this case, the gaming community. So your consideration that ME2 is not an RPG only works if you assume a single, unchanging definition. Unfortunately, the meaning of a word can and does change.

ME2 has no defined Character.  Shepherd has no intrinsic qualities of his own.  If he misses,  it's because you missed.  He cannot fail when he picks a  Paragon option.  This is why it is a TPS.


I'm pretty sure I keep seeing 'RPG/TPS hybrid' everywhere I go. Perhaps the 'rpg' elements refer more to the interaction, dialogues, and choices Shepard is able to make?

Story does not define an RPG.  It's entirely possible to have an RPG without any story,  it's just a dungeon crawl,  D&D had more than a few of these,  they've existed in CRPGs(Telengard,  Apshai,  and many others).

Doom had a story.  It took less than a paragraph to tell it,  but it was there.  RPG's are not defined by having stories.


I agree; story does not define the RPG. Half-Life has a story, yet I've never seen it labeled an RPG. Interactive story where the player has some authority is an aspect. It has practically always been around since the inception of role-playing. Much like your examples, it's possible to go almost an entire session of DnD with very few dice rolls, much like how there are large segments in Bioware games often with no combat. Or am I not playing a game during those segments? 

Wing Commander had Dialogue,  with choices,  it wasn't an RPG.  As have a great many other games over the years.  Monkey Island had dialogue,  King's Quest,  Leisure Suit Larry,  Incredible Journey,  Mysterious Island,  dozens upon dozens of games have dialogue.


Yet interestingly enough, I've never seen Fallout, Planescape: Torment, or a single Bioware game labeled an 'adventure game' which if I recall is what you call the above list.

Games are defined by their gameplay,  that's exactly what the genre's divide upon.


Only if you assume a very narrow definition of gameplay. You are assuming that the immediate association is with combat, where 'winning' means your character kills the enemy and 'losing' if your character is killed in turn. Note: this definition changes somewhat for sports/racing games.

If you assume a more general definition of gameplay, where the players are attempting to achieve some goal suddenly the definition has been expanded. Gameplay does not just refer to my attempts to kill things, but anything my character attempts to do successfully. Convincing a guard to leave his post can be considered 'gameplay'. And my group has done this in DnD. We have managed to fail in completing our objective without any of us losing our lives.

But if we follow your narrow standpoint, then many popular RPGs really aren't 'games' at all. In PS:T, after giving my character a high intelligence/wisdom, I was able to get through almost the entire game without the 'live or die' nature of combat where responses were completely up to me. Many Bioware games (DA:O, Jade Empire, Mass Effect) have also had greater emphasis on dialogue/interactions.

Modifié par Il Divo, 15 juin 2011 - 12:11 .


#205
Ajosraa

Ajosraa
  • Members
  • 852 messages
I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/

#206
Stardusk78

Stardusk78
  • Members
  • 2 844 messages

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/


A very big Reaper...

#207
Eradyn

Eradyn
  • Members
  • 2 636 messages

Stardusk78 wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/


A very big Reaper...


I don't think it's big enough.

#208
SKiLLYWiLLY2

SKiLLYWiLLY2
  • Members
  • 1 217 messages
wtf is that

#209
Sbri

Sbri
  • Members
  • 679 messages
The Reaper version of a Death Star?

#210
SalsaDMA

SalsaDMA
  • Members
  • 2 512 messages

Eradyn wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/


A very big Reaper...


I don't think it's big enough.


That's what she said? :whistle:

#211
don-mika

don-mika
  • Members
  • 478 messages

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/

www.balloontree.com/illustrations.php :ph34r:

#212
Big Yeti Cane

Big Yeti Cane
  • Members
  • 119 messages

SalsaDMA wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
I don't think it's big enough.

That's what she said? :whistle:

LMFAO! :lol:

Also, good job don-mika; you're a great pic detective.
Its called fan art, people! Awesome pic though...

Modifié par Big Yeti Cane, 17 juin 2011 - 01:15 .


#213
MrFob

MrFob
  • Members
  • 5 413 messages

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/


Look at the *size* of that thing!

#214
Antivenger

Antivenger
  • Members
  • 947 messages

MrFob wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/


Look at the *size* of that thing!

It's forcing itself on Uranus?

#215
Therefore_I_Am

Therefore_I_Am
  • Members
  • 747 messages

Big Yeti Cane wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
I don't think it's big enough.

That's what she said? :whistle:

LMFAO! :lol:

Also, good job don-mika; you're a great pic detective.
Its called fan art, people! Awesome pic though...


Good thing it's not in ME3, or else they might as well give shepard the option to **** himself

#216
ME-ParaShep

ME-ParaShep
  • Members
  • 368 messages

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/



Holy **** :blink: if that image is legit.. humanity is as good as ****ed.. unless it's going to be a Suicide Mission 2.0 and we'll have to infiltrate that thing.. blow up some a Reaper organs.. Seriously, even Harbinger, the "boss", can't even compare to this colossal beast.. I'm looking closely at the middle of the structure. It looks like a bird head. The body is like a hermit crab.

#217
HypnoBlasto

HypnoBlasto
  • Members
  • 12 messages
That thing would be the most hardcore final boss battle in the history lol
Anyway it´s just fanart...

#218
JayTheWolf

JayTheWolf
  • Members
  • 233 messages

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'm sorry but IGN's getting a little too dramatic. It's a video game. Virtual reality, not actual reality. Crying over pixels is pretty sad.

-Polite


It's not crying over pixels -- it's crying over the thought of situation simulated into a video game. There's a difference. 

#219
xSTONEYx187x

xSTONEYx187x
  • Members
  • 1 089 messages

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/


MY GOD!!!!

:mellow:

BioWare, what the f**k is that!?

:o

#220
Unata

Unata
  • Members
  • 1 145 messages
Over active imagination someone has, that doesn't really look like any reaper we've seen so far, other then the legs maybe.

Still don't see where this little boy is running to the shuttle, been through every me3 video out there

#221
RainyDayLover

RainyDayLover
  • Members
  • 1 331 messages
^ That's not from Mass Effect 3.

#222
spychi

spychi
  • Members
  • 282 messages
^And how you know that?
thats ME3 for sure, the guy writes an article about ME3, how that shouldn't be from ME3?
/irony

Modifié par spychi, 21 juin 2011 - 08:28 .


#223
shepskisaac

shepskisaac
  • Members
  • 16 374 messages
Nominated for 2 Game Critics Awards! :o (these are the main E3 awards, the ones that matter!) www.gamecriticsawards.com/nominees.html
Best Console Game and Best Role Playing Game! :wizard:
Also congratz to BioShock Infinite, Tomb Raider, Arkham City and Skyrim for scoring many nods including Best of Show :wub:

As for Uncharted 2.5 :sick:

Modifié par IsaacShep, 22 juin 2011 - 01:04 .


#224
Xeranx

Xeranx
  • Members
  • 2 255 messages

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/


I've never been one that is bothered by spoilers.  I've had experiences ruined because people have talked a piece of media up to the point my expectations get high (The Hangover), but I've never been bothered by spoilers otherwise.

If that thing is in the game, I'm going to be royally pissed off that I saw that image.

Modifié par Xeranx, 22 juin 2011 - 02:58 .


#225
Uszi

Uszi
  • Members
  • 670 messages

Xeranx wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...

I just saw this article about ME3. The thing is it came with this picture at the top. If this is in ME3, then im afraid;P :

Image IPB

from this article: http://attackofthefa...-fall-of-earth/


I've never been one that is bothered by spoilers.  I've had experiences ruined because people have talked a piece of media up to the point my expectations get high (The Hangover), but I've never been bothered by spoilers otherwise.

If that thing is in the game, I'm going to be royally pissed off that I saw that image.


It's not in the game.  It's fan art that was out like a year ago.