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[Thompson family]

The Question Is Why?

So what's the answer? Both the Reapers and Cerberus are against Shep, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have an agreed-upon reason, according to Casey Hudson himself (see link above.)

If you know of a good theory thread on why Cerberus turned on Shepard even though that appears to aid the Reapers, please post a link here. If there are any responses, those links will go in the updated original post.

Also, please include a suggestion on which of the following categories best fits the theory:

I. “Indoctrination”

These theories have the merit of simplicity, at least in principle. Cerberus operatives have simply succumbed to mind control.


II. “The Twilight of the Gods”

With the Alliance Fleet shattered and Earth occupied, The Illusive Man and most of his followers simply no longer believe that saving the galaxy is possible and wouldn’t be interested in saving a galaxy dominated by others even if Organic victory was possible. They’re trying to work out the best deal with the Reapers they can. Indoctrination might be a factor here, but not the major one.

A. 1. A reason Cerberus might be after Shepard


III. “The Double Cross”

TIM is playing a deep game in which he pretends to be on the Reaper’s side when he’s really not. He plans to betray them before they betray him.

    A. “The Survivalist” — TIM’s has prepared a cryogenic facility on a very remote planet, much like Ilos. After the Reapers leave, humans will emerge with their technology up-to-date and dominate the galaxy more completely than otherwise possible. Of course, it will take years of quiet rebuilding before they’re ready to hunt down and kill the “lone sentry” like Sovereign that the Reapers leave behind.
     1. Cerberus Plan B by knightnblu: An intriguing theory that Project Lazarus was a pilot project to bring dead tissue back to life, which would make a "rebirth" more practical than preserving life for half a millenium while waiting for the Reapers to go away.
     2. Cerberus Motivations by Detailed Subset is more ambitious, speculating that TIM wants to "depopulate" the Galaxy and utterly betray the Reapers, breaking the cycle and leaving humans completely in control.
 
   B. “Good Cop, Bad Cop” — Shep’s efforts to unite the galaxy would be more credible if he were perceived as an enemy of Cerberus. So ...
Killed by BioWare rep saying Cerberus is "H*** bent" to kill Shep.

IV. “If You Can’t Beat Them, Join Them”

TIM wants to be a Reaper.

I just realized why Cerberus might side with the Reapers...

Cerberus: No Indoctriantion Needed

V. “Some of This, Some of  That”

A mix of the other theories

1. 1. Why is Cerberus an enemy now An early thread on the ME2 forum that brings up a lot of theories and factors.






VI “Out of the Box”

Something completely different.

Modifié par Thompson family, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:44 .

[zweistein_J]

my guess could be:


III

TIM always wanted to put humanity fw so he wants to gain the Reapers' trust before destroying them.



OR



VI v1

TIM wants the "old" human race to end and wants to create a new one with the Reapers' help



OR



VI v2

TIM got "assuuuuuuuuuuummmmed controoooooOOOL"


but in any case, i dont really care to think about it much.
i prefere to see what's going on once i get my hand on the game.

[phatpat63]

It's just arbitrary, contrived writing. Just like being forced to join Cerberus in the first place. Contrived in the same way most of ME2 was and everything we know about ME3s plot so far. Don't expect it to make any sense. That's simply asking to much.

[onelifecrisis]

OP, it's already confirmed that Cerberus are indoctrinated (or at least their soldiers are).

phatpat63 wrote...

It's just arbitrary, contrived writing. Just like being forced to join Cerberus in the first place. Contrived in the same way most of ME2 was and everything we know about ME3s plot so far. Don't expect it to make any sense. That's simply asking to much.

This. Fortunately my expectation of the quality of the plot is already at rock bottom, so I can't possibly be disappointed on that front.

[Flashlegend]

phatpat63 wrote...

It's just arbitrary, contrived writing. Just like being forced to join Cerberus in the first place. Contrived in the same way most of ME2 was and everything we know about ME3s plot so far. Don't expect it to make any sense. That's simply asking to much.

^^ Basically this. Unless the writers absolutely incredible and make it all seem plausible, it's just going to be cheap and contrived writing like at the beginning of ME2; being killed and then immediately revived to reset the status quo back to ME1/force us to join a terrorist organization. I'm really hoping I'm wrong but the cerberus thing is just straight up insane.

[KawaiiKatie]

I'm actually a huge fan of 3A. I think it's entirely likely that TIM wants the Reapers to kill everyone off so that humantiy can dominate the galaxy. Of course, the Reapers will come back in another 50,000 years, but still, that's a very long time. Long enough to create our own Reaper-fighting technology? Maybe. Especially if humantiy focused on it for 50,000 years!

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Man... seriously... I'd love to have any of those theories be the reason why they are attacking Shepard... minus number 1 and number 4.

[XX55XX]

Or maybe TIM was a shapeshifting Reaper to begin with. 

Modifié par XX55XX, 10 juin 2011 - 01:23 .

[onelifecrisis]

Flashlegend wrote...

phatpat63 wrote...

It's just arbitrary, contrived writing. Just like being forced to join Cerberus in the first place. Contrived in the same way most of ME2 was and everything we know about ME3s plot so far. Don't expect it to make any sense. That's simply asking to much.

^^ Basically this. Unless the writers absolutely incredible and make it all seem plausible...

I really don't see how they can. The damage has already been done by ME2 and Arrival. It's now canon that Shepard is a moron. It's canon that Sovereign spent at least 21 years trying to open the Citadel relay, then when he failed the Reapers made the journey in just 2 years (and also had the Collectors start rounding up relatively pathetic numbers of humans so that they could grow one single human Reaper to its foetus stage for... well for no particular reason). I could go on but there's no need. Bottom line: there's no way to repair the main plot at this stage, and I don't think BW are even interested in trying.

Instead, we'll get lots of sploshuns and - hopefully - some focus on the peripheral story arcs (which at least make some sense). I'm thinking of the Quarian/Geth/Tali/Legion story arc, and the Krogan/Genophage/Wrex/Mordin story arc in particular; these both have potential IMO.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 10 juin 2011 - 01:29 .

[Flashlegend]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

phatpat63 wrote...

It's just arbitrary, contrived writing. Just like being forced to join Cerberus in the first place. Contrived in the same way most of ME2 was and everything we know about ME3s plot so far. Don't expect it to make any sense. That's simply asking to much.

^^ Basically this. Unless the writers absolutely incredible and make it all seem plausible...

I really don't see how they can. The damage has already been done by ME2 and Arrival. It's now canon that Shepard is a moron. It's canon that Sovereign spent at least 21 years trying to open the Citadel relay, then when he failed the Reapers made the journey in just 2 years (and also had the Collectors start rounding up relatively pathetic numbers of humans so that they could grow one single human Reaper to its foetus stage for... well for no particular reason). I could go on but there's no need. Bottom line: there's no way to repair the main plot at this stage, and I don't think BW are even interested in trying.

Instead, we'll get lots of sploshuns and - hopefully - some focus on the peripheral story arcs (which at least make some sense). I'm thinking of the Quarian/Geth/Tali/Legion story arc, and the Krogan/Genophage/Wrex/Mordin story arc in particular; these both have potential IMO.

Yea. I've actually realized and noted most of that. I'm just hoping it doesn't get any stupider. I also know this might be asking for too much but I really hope they explain what the hell collector's were attempting to accomplish. As you've said, they're harvesting of humans seemed completely retarded when you consider 1) how many more humans they would need and the time/resources require to get those humans(attacking earth isn't that easy) and 2) how the reapers appear in the galaxy so fast after ME2(As you said, what was the point of sovereign and the collectors?)

[JEMEDAOME2]

Have none of you considered the possibly that Shepard may have been indoctrinated or at least that Cereberus think so The Illusive made clear his desire to protect humanity at any cost and if killing Shepard is a means to protect humanity he would do it.

I think we are gonna see way more indoctrination and I won't be surprised if at least one squad character succumbs to it.

And one more thing what is with people on this forum knocking Biowares games BEFORE they come out it's bad enuff you're knocking a storyline that most sci-fi games series would struggle to match (looking at you Halo) I mean it's Bioware have they ever made a stupid story?

ME2 was and is as far I'm concerned the series Empire moment. if little alien teddy bears or alien space jamiacans turn up in ME3 Then you level all hate you want hell I'd probably join you but since that looks very unlikey im going continue getting more excited.about the conclusion to an excellent series

[Splinter Cell 108]

I hope that it isn't just indoctrination. The Illusive Man is supposed to be one of the most well written characters in Mass Effect. They can't just make him a servant of the Reapers. I think something else is going on with Cerberus working with the Reapers.

I think we also won't find out until we start playing the game.

[Flashlegend]

JEMEDAOME2 wrote...

Have none of you considered the possibly that Shepard may have been indoctrinated or at least that Cereberus think so The Illusive made clear his desire to protect humanity at any cost and if killing Shepard is a means to protect humanity he would do it.

I think we are gonna see way more indoctrination and I won't be surprised if at least one squad character succumbs to it.

And one more thing what is with people on this forum knocking Biowares games BEFORE they come out it's bad enuff you're knocking a storyline that most sci-fi games series would struggle to match (looking at you Halo) I mean it's Bioware have they ever made a stupid story?

ME2 was and is as far I'm concerned the series Empire moment. if little alien teddy bears or alien space jamiacans turn up in ME3 Then you level all hate you want hell I'd probably join you but since that looks very unlikey im going continue getting more excited.about the conclusion to an excellent series

I'd personally like it if indoctrination didn't play an extremely  heavy roll on the plot(unfortunately it will.) The hologram on illos in the first game made it seem like indoctrination was only heavily used after the protheans were more or less utterly defeated. For all intensive purposes, indoctrination is really nothing more than a plot device. Plus I don't really think that kind of twist is plausible because even if Shepard himself is indoctrinated; the normandy's crew and all the returning squad mates he'll be picking up won't be and would surely notice if Shepard's actions were endangering all of humanity/the galaxy.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 10 juin 2011 - 02:37 .

[JayhartRIC]

I like 3A a lot. It seems like something Illusive Man would do.

[MarchWaltz]

zweistein_J wrote...

VI v1

TIM wants the "old" human race to end and wants to create a new one with the Reapers' help

Sounds like Wesker and the Ouroboros

[GreenDragon37]

I vote for a combination of number 1 and number 2. I'm not a fan of ME2's main plot nor the Cerberus railroading, but here I go:

The whole point of bringing Shep back was to protect Humanity against the Reapers. Cerberus is supposed to be the "protectors of Humanity".

Anyway, from TIM's point of view, Shep has failed. The Reapers arrive at Earth, and Cerberus's goals of stopping any threat to Humanity from beyond the Charon Relay has failed. The Reapers have never been defeated, and their greatest hope for victory agaisnt the Reapers is a dud. So, in hopes of sparing Humanity from a worse fate, TIM goes the Saren route: trying to make themselves useful, so that the Reapers will spare Humanity.

The Reapers would not trust TIM to keep his word (why would they?), so they indoctrinate him subtly. We already know TIM has Reaper tech in him, maybe he was being indoctrinated the whole time, but he was trying to find a way to combat the Indoctrination for a while. Kind of like Saren. When the Reapers arrive, TIM knows it's over, and he submits, but he has no choice in the matter anyway. He was running out of time.

Maybe 3A was a contingency plan in-case his inital plans failed. That way, Humanity still has a chance, even if TIM doesn't.

That's my theory. A little jumbled, and the Pro-Cerb Renegades will probably jump down my throat, but it is that: my theory.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 02:52 .

[Eshaye]

JEMEDAOME2 wrote...

Have none of you considered the possibly that Shepard may have been indoctrinated or at least that Cereberus think so The Illusive made clear his desire to protect humanity at any cost and if killing Shepard is a means to protect humanity he would do it.

I think we are gonna see way more indoctrination and I won't be surprised if at least one squad character succumbs to it.

And one more thing what is with people on this forum knocking Biowares games BEFORE they come out it's bad enuff you're knocking a storyline that most sci-fi games series would struggle to match (looking at you Halo) I mean it's Bioware have they ever made a stupid story?

ME2 was and is as far I'm concerned the series Empire moment. if little alien teddy bears or alien space jamiacans turn up in ME3 Then you level all hate you want hell I'd probably join you but since that looks very unlikey im going continue getting more excited.about the conclusion to an excellent series

I like you. 

Other then that, I have been afraid of these extra tid bits that's resurrected Shepard, sure it could be harmless nano technology but Reaper tech has the ability to repair human tissue as in the case of Paul Grayson. 

I think people are focussing too much on whether TIM is indoctrinated or not and reacting to it, I think it might be very well true but I also think enough of the writers to expect something ELSE that's involved in all of it. 

I don't blame the reaction though because I did the same thing when I read it in PC Gamer, I /facepalmed, raged a little and now I'm ready to move on and speculate there's more going on. I hope... 

[Eshaye]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

The whole point of bringing Shep back was to protect Humanity against the Reapers. Cerberus is supposed to be the "protectors of Humanity".

Protectors of humanity who torture humans on a daily basis. I so have a hard reconciliating these two things, one of them can't be true. 

[GreenDragon37]

Eshaye wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

The whole point of bringing Shep back was to protect Humanity against the Reapers. Cerberus is supposed to be the "protectors of Humanity".

Protectors of humanity who torture humans on a daily basis. I so have a hard reconciliating these two things, one of them can't be true. 

Oh, I agree. I'm no fan of Cerberus. That's what I put in my post before I posted the theory. That's also why I have the

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 02:50 .

[JEMEDAOME2]

It's common knowledge that Cerberus like to play around with alien tech hell EDI was based on reaper tech and if you've read ME Retribution you'll know what Cerberus did to Grayson. It's not impossible that some of the implants used to bring shep back might be based on Reaper Tech and Sarens own indoctrination was very slow possibly taking months or years personally it would interesting to see if Shepard starts to feel effects of indoctrination knowing about it has been no defence to others so Bioware could pull out a "would you kindly situation"

Of course there is always possibility most of Cerberus (not all they are Cell based after all) have been indoctrinated which means that the TIM might need Shepard's help

[GreenDragon37]

JEMEDAOME2 wrote...

It's common knowledge that Cerberus like to play around with alien tech hell EDI was based on reaper tech and if you've read ME Retribution you'll know what Cerberus did to Grayson. It's not impossible that some of the implants used to bring shep back might be based on Reaper Tech and Sarens own indoctrination was very slow possibly taking months or years personally it would interesting to see if Shepard starts to feel effects of indoctrination knowing about it has been no defence to others so Bioware could pull out a "would you kindly situation"

Of course there is always possibility most of Cerberus (not all they are Cell based after all) have been indoctrinated which means that the TIM might need Shepard's help

Which I would never give him. Call me selfish, but eff Cerberus. As long as that man is in charge, as well as any other xenophobic, heartless nutter, Cerberus will always be my Shep's enemy.

[neubourn]

JEMEDAOME2 wrote...

Have none of you considered the possibly that Shepard may have been indoctrinated or at least that Cereberus think so The Illusive made clear his desire to protect humanity at any cost and if killing Shepard is a means to protect humanity he would do it.

Hmmm, very interesting point, especially for those who chose to destroy the collector base. It may not explain why TIM is working with the Reapers, but it could definitely explain why he is going after Shepard. We already know he wold spend billions on reviving Shepard to save Humanity, so its not far-fetched he would destroy Shepard if he believed Shepard was Indoctrinated, or if by doing so that it would somehow help Humanity.

[JEMEDAOME2]

GreenDragon37 wrote...



Which I would never give him. Call me selfish, but eff Cerberus. As long as that man is in charge, as well as any other xenophobic, heartless nutter, Cerberus will always be my Shep's enemy.

what he said

[GreenDragon37]

Another theory I have is that Shep has some kind of immunity to the Indoctrination. A little cliche, but it could explain why the Reapers want Shep so badly. They want to take him apart and figure out what makes him tick. And if the Reapers want Shep, Cerberus does too.