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[Someone With Mass]

jreezy wrote...
I'm not too sure about that.

Okay. Take TIM away from the picture completely.

How would that stop Cerberus from doing anything that they have done?

Not to mention that his appearance is the most blatant and shameless retcon I've seen in Mass Effect.

[Arkitekt]

IOW, and to be more clear, while both TIM and Saren can be vaguely defined as "Well-Intentioned Extremists", their "intentions" are completely different. Saren is a faustian bargainer, while TIM will never "bargain" with a reaper (except to fool / delay them). Saren's "intention" was to save some people from their inevitable deaths by showing them how useful they are. TIM wants to destroy the reapers and put mankind on top of galaxy's affairs.

How they are still confused here is mind blowing.

[Arkitekt]

Someone With Mass wrote...

jreezy wrote...
I'm not too sure about that.

Okay. Take TIM away from the picture completely.

How would that stop Cerberus from doing anything that they have done?

Not to mention that his appearance is the most blatant and shameless retcon I've seen in Mass Effect.

It's not a bad retcon however, since Cerberus wasn't all that known in ME1. A ME1 DLC was not shipped that had to do with Cerberus, and I think they outlined it as a way to introduce TIM. It was scrapped for god knows what reasons.

The soundtrack of it is awesome and I regularly hear it :
 

[Arkitekt]

jreezy wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

jreezy wrote...
I'm not too sure about that.

Okay. Take TIM away from the picture completely.

How would that stop Cerberus from doing anything that they have done?.

It wouldn't, that still doesn't make him the most unnecessary character though.

It would, in the sense that TIM is Cerberus.

He's there to represent what Cerberus *is* to us. What Cerberus "have done" is delivered by Cerberus himself, ergo, TIM.

[Sebbe1337o]

My theory:

Cerberus is not on the Reapers side. TIM knows that Shep has some Reaper Tech in him, and TIM knows that that tech has a chance to indoctrinate Shep to become like Saren, which will ultimately doom all organic life and the Reapers will definately win. (This has a pretty high probability imo since we know that Shep will have vivid dreams in ME3, maybe as a side effect of his reaper-tech implants? We don't know for sure what those dreams are about, but this could be a possibility...)

So TIM doesn't want to take any chances and feels like he needs to kill Shep, to have a better chance to preserve humanity.

On a side note, I don't believe Cerberus/TIM is really indoctrinated. There's a chance that's just what Shep believes since Cerberus Troops look like husks because of reaper tech in them as well that TIM wanted them to have. That's why he said it; "They're indoctrinated, they're capable of anything!" and BW just kept agreeing with this to get us on the wrong track so we might get pleasantly surprized when ME3 comes out.


Thoughts?
(Try to keep the spoilers to a minimum please?)

[Arkitekt]

Sebbe1337o wrote...

My theory:

Cerberus is not on the Reapers side. TIM knows that Shep has some Reaper Tech in him, and TIM knows that that tech has a chance to indoctrinate Shep to become like Saren, which will ultimately doom all organic life and the Reapers will definately win. (This has a pretty high probability imo since we know that Shep will have vivid dreams in ME3, maybe as a side effect of his reaper-tech implants? We don't know for sure what those dreams are about, but this could be a possibility...)

So TIM doesn't want to take any chances and feels like he needs to kill Shep, to have a better chance to preserve humanity.

This is utterly wrong (And no this is not a leak-derived slam, it's what I think over the matter from long time ago).

TIM just has a different agenda than Shep, and he won't be stopped by Shep. If that means killing Shep, so be it.

On a side note, I don't believe Cerberus/TIM is really indoctrinated. There's a chance that's just what Shep believes since Cerberus Troops look like husks because of reaper tech in them as well that TIM wanted them to have. That's why he said it; "They're indoctrinated, they're capable of anything!" and BW just kept agreeing with this to get us on the wrong track so we might get pleasantly surprized when ME3 comes out.

This is utterly correct. Same thoughts exactly.

[XDMMX]

It would be interesting if Shepard did have some sort of Reaper tech in him, it would explain the Renegade scarring.

[Zandercode]

I find it odd how many people still think the human Reaper was meant to replace Sovereign and open the Citadel, as well as how many still don't get why opening the Citadel was worth waiting for Sovereign to do in the first place. The hypothesis made since but nothing in the game ever said or even suggested the human Reaper was supposed to unlock the Citadel. People just assumed that and now they're accusing the plot of sucking based on something they made up to begin with. It's almost like BioWare even went and made Arrival playable before the suicide mission just to try and make the point clearer that the human Reaper wasn't supposed to replace Sovereign and that the Reapers were already on their way. It's just what they do, make new Reapers out of a chosen race, that's all we really know so far. And with Sovereign and the Citadel and the Reapers waiting so long when they could have just flown over in two years... It was stated ever since Vigil that the point of coming through the Citadel is to get the tactical advantage of taking over the galaxy's capital first, not because they literally could not get in otherwise.

[Zandercode]

There are some weaknesses in the plot but the above two plot points aren't a part of those weaknesses. At worst, they simply aren't presented well enough.

[Sebbe1337o]

Arkitekt wrote...

Sebbe1337o wrote...

My theory:

Cerberus is not on the Reapers side. TIM knows that Shep has some Reaper Tech in him, and TIM knows that that tech has a chance to indoctrinate Shep to become like Saren, which will ultimately doom all organic life and the Reapers will definately win. (This has a pretty high probability imo since we know that Shep will have vivid dreams in ME3, maybe as a side effect of his reaper-tech implants? We don't know for sure what those dreams are about, but this could be a possibility...)

So TIM doesn't want to take any chances and feels like he needs to kill Shep, to have a better chance to preserve humanity.

This is utterly wrong (And no this is not a leak-derived slam, it's what I think over the matter from long time ago).

TIM just has a different agenda than Shep, and he won't be stopped by Shep. If that means killing Shep, so be it.

On a side note, I don't believe Cerberus/TIM is really indoctrinated. There's a chance that's just what Shep believes since Cerberus Troops look like husks because of reaper tech in them as well that TIM wanted them to have. That's why he said it; "They're indoctrinated, they're capable of anything!" and BW just kept agreeing with this to get us on the wrong track so we might get pleasantly surprized when ME3 comes out.

This is utterly correct. Same thoughts exactly.

Ah, cool that we had the same idea about the second point
What more do you have to say about my first point? Just interested about what you thought was wrong with it in a more elaborated sense