237 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

Killing Shepard is the only way to defeat the Reapers

OR

Cerberus is indoctrinated (most likely)

OR

TIM is on Sheparrd's side and half of Cerberus is indoctrinated.
TIM goes into hiding on a secret location in which Cerberus is trying to get the Klendagon weapon operational.
Kai Leng seeks out Shepard to invite him to the secret base

I hope the latter is what happens and I believe would be  more interesting

[Flashlegend]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Maybe I'm hallucinating but it seems that during live streaming of the ME3 interview at E3, one of the devs flat out said something like "since Cerberus is indoctrinated." Book spoilers Also, the last book flat out says that TIM got his hands on Reaper tech regardless of whether or not you destroyed the base. My guess is that they are indoctrinated, and that tech they got is at least one of the thing responsible for doing it. If somebody else already said that, sorry. I'm too lazy to read.

If you listen to Shepard and Liara on Sur'Kesh, she asks "why are they attacking us" and shepard replies with "they're indoctrinated." So yea, its pretty clear that some faction of cerberus has been completely indoctrinated.

Modifié par Flashlegend, 10 juin 2011 - 03:12 .

[GreenDragon37]

Flashlegend wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Maybe I'm hallucinating but it seems that during live streaming of the ME3 interview at E3, one of the devs flat out said something like "since Cerberus is indoctrinated." Book spoilers Also, the last book flat out says that TIM got his hands on Reaper tech regardless of whether or not you destroyed the base. My guess is that they are indoctrinated, and that tech they got is at least one of the thing responsible for doing it. If somebody else already said that, sorry. I'm too lazy to read.

If you listen to Shepard and Liara on Sur'Kesh, she asks "why are they attacking us" and shepard replies with "they're indoctrinated." So yea, its pretty clear indoctrination is key.

I think it is Indoctrination. It is the Reapers' most insidious weapon. However I hope that there's a deeper meaning to it than just Indoctrination.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 03:12 .

[Fathom72]

I once made a thread on these forums that talked about the possibility of multple factions within the reapers, and how that might explain Cerberus's behavior.

For example, lets say that Harbringer's fascination with humans isn't shared by other reapers. Perhaps his activities on the collector base aren't sanctioned by the reapers as a whole, and he's outright rebelling against the other reapers by trying to make a human version of them. If TIM was indoctrinated all along, and under the control of the faction controlling Harbringer, it would help explain why he wanted to stop the collectors.

I've got nothing for explaining why he wanted to revive Shep, tho. He's obviously important, for some reason or another (perhaps its the prothean cypher, but I have a feeling its more than that). I guess it would make sense to take Shepard simply to deny the Collectors and Harby the chance to get him.

[CitizenSnips]

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated isn't contrived at all. Indoctrination has been a major plot point since day one and Cerberus has been aggressively experimenting with reaper technology since moment they acquired it. Experimentation on the technology known to cause indoctrination without knowing HOW that indoctrination occurs could very well lead to becoming indoctrinated for those doing the studying. There's no forced connection there, no artificial bridge. A very simple explanation for Cerberus working with the reapers? Yup. Contrived? Nope.

[GreenDragon37]

Fathom72 wrote...

I once made a thread on these forums that talked about the possibility of multple factions within the reapers, and how that might explain Cerberus's behavior.

For example, lets say that Harbringer's fascination with humans isn't shared by other reapers. Perhaps his activities on the collector base aren't sanctioned by the reapers as a whole, and he's outright rebelling against the other reapers by trying to make a human version of them. If TIM was indoctrinated all along, and under the control of the faction controlling Harbringer, it would help explain why he wanted to stop the collectors.

I've got nothing for explaining why he wanted to revive Shep, tho. He's obviously important, for some reason or another (perhaps its the prothean cypher, but I have a feeling its more than that). I guess it would make sense to take Shepard simply to deny the Collectors and Harby the chance to get him.

Nah, having the Reapers being a divided enemy would make them less scary. One of the most horrifying Reapers is that they are a united race of sentient machines, that have exterminated the galaxy over and over again. That single mindset, that drive to exterminate all organic life, is one of the most fearsom things of them all.

[jbblue05]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated isn't contrived at all. Indoctrination has been a major plot point since day one and Cerberus has been aggressively experimenting with reaper technology since moment they acquired it. Experimentation on the technology known to cause indoctrination without knowing HOW that indoctrination occurs could very well lead to becoming indoctrinated for those doing the studying. There's no forced connection there, no artificial bridge. A very simple explanation for Cerberus working with the reapers? Yup. Contrived? Nope.

Cereberus experimenting on reaper tech can go both ways.

By aggressively studying the tech Cerberus has learned to resist indoctrination more effectively

Modifié par jbblue05, 10 juin 2011 - 03:28 .

[GreenDragon37]

jbblue05 wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated isn't contrived at all. Indoctrination has been a major plot point since day one and Cerberus has been aggressively experimenting with reaper technology since moment they acquired it. Experimentation on the technology known to cause indoctrination without knowing HOW that indoctrination occurs could very well lead to becoming indoctrinated for those doing the studying. There's no forced connection there, no artificial bridge. A very simple explanation for Cerberus working with the reapers? Yup. Contrived? Nope.

Cereberus experimenting on reaper tech can go both ways.

By aggressively studying the tech Cerberus gas learned to resist indoctrination more effectively

I doubt they have found the cure for indoctrination, or they would have already given it to the others. And you would think they would mention this in the books.

[jamesp81]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

I'm actually a huge fan of 3A. I think it's entirely likely that TIM wants the Reapers to kill everyone off so that humantiy can dominate the galaxy. Of course, the Reapers will come back in another 50,000 years, but still, that's a very long time. Long enough to create our own Reaper-fighting technology? Maybe. Especially if humantiy focused on it for 50,000 years!

That could be his goal.  Kind of interesting as I've seen this plot device used in some good sci fi novels.  David Weber wrote a series of three books with a similar-ish plot device.  It's called the Mutineer's Moon series.  Good read, I recommend the first two books.  The third one isn't bad, but it's not really necessary either.

Modifié par jamesp81, 10 juin 2011 - 03:26 .

[jamesp81]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Maybe I'm hallucinating but it seems that during live streaming of the ME3 interview at E3, one of the devs flat out said something like "since Cerberus is indoctrinated." Book spoilers Also, the last book flat out says that TIM got his hands on Reaper tech regardless of whether or not you destroyed the base. My guess is that they are indoctrinated, and that tech they got is at least one of the thing responsible for doing it. If somebody else already said that, sorry. I'm too lazy to read.

If you listen to Shepard and Liara on Sur'Kesh, she asks "why are they attacking us" and shepard replies with "they're indoctrinated." So yea, its pretty clear indoctrination is key.

I think it is Indoctrination. It is the Reapers' most insidious weapon. However I hope that there's a deeper meaning to it than just Indoctrination.

It's also their most dangerous weapon.  The Reapers' ability to use covert ops to cripple resistance is frightening.  This is not to downplay the threat they pose in terms of conventional fighting, but you can't even think about mounting a large scale conventional assault against them until you deal with their covert attacks.

[Nezzer]

Flashlegend wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Maybe I'm hallucinating but it seems that during live streaming of the ME3 interview at E3, one of the devs flat out said something like "since Cerberus is indoctrinated." Book spoilers Also, the last book flat out says that TIM got his hands on Reaper tech regardless of whether or not you destroyed the base. My guess is that they are indoctrinated, and that tech they got is at least one of the thing responsible for doing it. If somebody else already said that, sorry. I'm too lazy to read.

If you listen to Shepard and Liara on Sur'Kesh, she asks "why are they attacking us" and shepard replies with "they're indoctrinated." So yea, its pretty clear that some faction of cerberus has been completely indoctrinated.

Well, Shepard could have just assumed they were indoctrinated, without knowing for certain.

[jamesp81]

[quote]Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...
Cereberus experimenting on reaper tech can go both ways.

By aggressively studying the tech Cerberus gas learned to resist indoctrination more effectively[/quote]

I doubt they have found the cure for indoctrination, or they would have already given it to the others. And you would think they would mention this in the books.

[/quote]

It actually interests me how consistently Bioware demonstrates that "studying" Reaper tech is a bad idea.

[/quote]

That's not entirely true.  Studying Reaper tech gave us EDI and the Thanix cannon upgrade for the Normandy. I know, just two individual weapons for all the death and destruction caused from studying Reaper tech, but I felt compelled to point it out.

Modifié par jamesp81, 10 juin 2011 - 03:28 .

[JEMEDAOME2]

Lets not forget that reaper tech is alive it regenerates when damaged and multiple programmes inside lie dormant untill needed even in this dormant state reaper technology is no joke, the comatose Reaper in ME2 is a good example the reaper shell reacted to the presence of the cereberus team and Shepard & Co I have had a feeling for a while that reaper tech is a bit like Sauron's ring (Soron? never was big lords of the rings fan) it knows when it's being used by non reapers and manipulates those who who try to use it for their own ends to the reapers will

Modifié par JEMEDAOME2, 10 juin 2011 - 03:32 .

[CitizenSnips]

jbblue05 wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated isn't contrived at all. Indoctrination has been a major plot point since day one and Cerberus has been aggressively experimenting with reaper technology since moment they acquired it. Experimentation on the technology known to cause indoctrination without knowing HOW that indoctrination occurs could very well lead to becoming indoctrinated for those doing the studying. There's no forced connection there, no artificial bridge. A very simple explanation for Cerberus working with the reapers? Yup. Contrived? Nope.

Cereberus experimenting on reaper tech can go both ways.

By aggressively studying the tech Cerberus has learned to resist indoctrination more effectively

I agree. I was only arguing that it wasn't contrived.

[GreenDragon37]

[quote]jamesp81 wrote...

[quote]Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...
Cereberus experimenting on reaper tech can go both ways.

By aggressively studying the tech Cerberus gas learned to resist indoctrination more effectively[/quote]

I doubt they have found the cure for indoctrination, or they would have already given it to the others. And you would think they would mention this in the books.

[/quote]

It actually interests me how consistently Bioware demonstrates that "studying" Reaper tech is a bad idea.

[/quote]

That's not entirely true.  Studying Reaper tech gave us EDI and the Thanix cannon upgrade for the Normandy. I know, just two individual weapons for all the death and destruction caused from studying Reaper tech, but I felt compelled to point it out.

[/quote]

Yes, it has it's uses. However, it's a gamble. And experimenting with Reaper tech from an obliterated Reaper (Soverign) is safer than experimenting on whole, activated Reaper tech.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 03:41 .

[Beerfish]

phatpat63 wrote...

It's just arbitrary, contrived writing. Just like being forced to join Cerberus in the first place. Contrived in the same way most of ME2 was and everything we know about ME3s plot so far. Don't expect it to make any sense. That's simply asking to much.

Eh?  90% of games are 'contrived' by your definition in that case.  You are forced to be in certain situations that you might prefer otherwise in many games, including the beacons of rpgdom.

[GreenDragon37]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Cerberus becoming indoctrinated isn't contrived at all. Indoctrination has been a major plot point since day one and Cerberus has been aggressively experimenting with reaper technology since moment they acquired it. Experimentation on the technology known to cause indoctrination without knowing HOW that indoctrination occurs could very well lead to becoming indoctrinated for those doing the studying. There's no forced connection there, no artificial bridge. A very simple explanation for Cerberus working with the reapers? Yup. Contrived? Nope.

Cereberus experimenting on reaper tech can go both ways.

By aggressively studying the tech Cerberus has learned to resist indoctrination more effectively

I agree. I was only arguing that it wasn't contrived.

It's really not. I think Pro-Cerb people only use that excuse out of spite for Cerberus becoming the enemy again.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 03:35 .

[GreenDragon37]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Indoctrination was contrived when it happened in Arrival and it is contrived now. Hell, I'd say it was rather contrived when it happened on the derelict Reaper.

Case in point.

[Flashlegend]

Nezzer wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Maybe I'm hallucinating but it seems that during live streaming of the ME3 interview at E3, one of the devs flat out said something like "since Cerberus is indoctrinated." Book spoilers Also, the last book flat out says that TIM got his hands on Reaper tech regardless of whether or not you destroyed the base. My guess is that they are indoctrinated, and that tech they got is at least one of the thing responsible for doing it. If somebody else already said that, sorry. I'm too lazy to read.

If you listen to Shepard and Liara on Sur'Kesh, she asks "why are they attacking us" and shepard replies with "they're indoctrinated." So yea, its pretty clear that some faction of cerberus has been completely indoctrinated.

Well, Shepard could have just assumed they were indoctrinated, without knowing for certain.

I highly doubt that shepard would just throw out a random assumption like that. Although can't say it hasn't happened before.(different context though)

[GreenDragon37]

Flashlegend wrote...

Nezzer wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Maybe I'm hallucinating but it seems that during live streaming of the ME3 interview at E3, one of the devs flat out said something like "since Cerberus is indoctrinated." Book spoilers Also, the last book flat out says that TIM got his hands on Reaper tech regardless of whether or not you destroyed the base. My guess is that they are indoctrinated, and that tech they got is at least one of the thing responsible for doing it. If somebody else already said that, sorry. I'm too lazy to read.

If you listen to Shepard and Liara on Sur'Kesh, she asks "why are they attacking us" and shepard replies with "they're indoctrinated." So yea, its pretty clear that some faction of cerberus has been completely indoctrinated.

Well, Shepard could have just assumed they were indoctrinated, without knowing for certain.

I highly doubt that shepard would just throw out a random assumption like that. Although can't say it hasn't happened before.(different context though)

Shep has said some dumb/ignorant things in the past, though. Maybe he says that because it's what he thinks happened. We'll find out soon enough.

[JEMEDAOME2]

If there is one thing we know for certain is that the Reapers use indoctrinated as shock troops if a cerberus cell has been compromised like I suspect that explains why they seem to be everywhere at least from early footage we've seen