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[GreenDragon37]

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

If we have to go and completely annihilate the entire Cerberus organization and kill TIM I will return my game right then and there. Indoctrination, bs. Cerberus is the only organization that's even the slightest bit prepared for the Reapers. TIM making a deal with the devil? No fricking way, TIM has never been written as a retard. All I see is that BW needed a ground army for Shep to fight that wasnt just pure husks and bandits, and so they put in Cerberus because they are unpopular. Also, if we find out that TIM was indoctrinated the entire time, ME 2 would be the most pointless filler ever.

It wasn't pointless, but I never liked Cerberus to begin with. And TIM would do anything to protect Humanity, even if it meant making a deal with the devil. TIM isn't a retard, but he is arrogant and overconfident, and again, he will go to any lengths to protect Humanity, he said so himself. If he is Indoctrinated, I'll be alright with that, but they need something more. Like he had an ulterior motive, but he underestimated the Reapers, just like Saren. Large results, heavy risk. TIM might have taken a risk that he couldn't afford to take this time.

it would be pointless if we find out TIM was indoctrinated the whole time. It would make ME 2 nothing more than a rat race designed by the Reapers to just play with Shepard. So you are telling me the guy who knows that the Reapers DO NOT WORK WITH ORGANICS would try to make a deal with them? And then you are going to say that he isn't a retard for doing that? BS. And before you say "But the Reapers worked with Saren" or something to that degree with the geth. Just remember that the Reapers were going to dispose of them at the end of their campaign. The best you can do with the Reapers is to have your race become keepers, collectors, or new Reapers. Non of which TIM has shown any indication that he would allow humanity to become. I would also find it hard to believe that after the Grayson incident TIM would put himself in a position of danger/possible indoctrination. Iirc he basically beats himself up for being so exposed and kind of becomes paranoid (this part I am not too sure on).

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 07:59 .

[HTTP 404]

This is a good thread. I like the OP's concise options, no matter how one or two are rediculous, does us no service to ignore them though.

[ramnozack]

Eshaye wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

The whole point of bringing Shep back was to protect Humanity against the Reapers. Cerberus is supposed to be the "protectors of Humanity".

Protectors of humanity who torture humans on a daily basis. I so have a hard reconciliating these two things, one of them can't be true. 

They stand for the ADVANCEMENT of the human race. Not just protectin it. If your dead that is gonna seriously delay your advancement wouldn't it? Also Shep being indoctrinated is pretty dumb idea IMO. If shep is a paragon why would he kill the Human- Reaper (who was being built to replace Sovereign to open up the mass relay once more). As for ME 2 writing being butchered.....in ME2 the only thing that was kinda iffy was the beginning. If we can ressurect any1 for the right amount of credits then people dying in ME would mean less then people dying in Dragon ball series (which i love btw). As for Arrival, it makes perfect sense. They were trying to build a new reaper to replace sovereign to open the relay cuz who wants to fly ALL the way there and back if we can just teleport there but since u destroyed it and collectors theres no way to open the relay without the reapers going there themselves. If u id arrival before suicide mission then it makes no sense but seeing as how arrival was meant to be played after suicide mission Arrival makes total sense.

[Blandi3737]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

TIM worked with aliens in ME2... Through Shepard but he did have a Cerberus vessel filled with Cerberus agents work with aliens to help humanity. Why would he care about the aliens taking advantage of a weak humanity when they themselves are going to be wrecked by the same Reapers wrecking Earth. TIM knows/knew humanity didnt stand a chance against the Reapers in it's current state, so him being shocked doesnt make sense. He already has a secret base, he doesnt need time to go make another.... There are just too many ways to poke holes in TIM turning against humanity and joining the Reapers. Its just too dumb of a decision for a character like TIM.

Modifié par Blandi3737, 10 juin 2011 - 08:08 .

[Thompson family]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

III. “The Double Cross”

TIM is playing a deep game in which he pretends to be on the Reaper’s side when he’s really not. He plans to betray them before they betray him.

    A. “The Survivalist” — TIM’s has prepared a cryogenic facility on a very remote planet, much like Ilos. After the Reapers leave, humans will emerge with their technology up-to-date and dominate the galaxy more completely than otherwise possible. Of course, it will take years of quiet rebuilding before they’re ready to hunt down and kill the “lone sentry” like Sovereign that the Reapers leave behind.
 

This is the most original one I've heard yet. Right now I like it the most, just on that fact.

Thanks. That's the only one of those I made up myself. There's no evidence for it whatsoever, to my knowledge. Just something that struck me as possible and that would accomplish Cerberus overall goal -- if you assume the worst and that neither Kelly nor Miranda really speak for Cerberus.

[GreenDragon37]

Blandi3737 wrote...

TIM worked with aliens in ME2... Through Shepard but he did have a Cerberus vessel filled with Cerberus agents work with aliens to help humanity. Why would he care about the aliens taking advantage of a weak humanity when they themselves are going to be wrecked by the same Reapers wrecking Earth. TIM knows/knew humanity didnt stand a chance against the Reapers in it's current state, so him being shocked doesnt make sense. He already has a secret base, he doesnt need time to go make another.... There are just too many ways to poke holes in TIM turning against humanity and joining the Reapers. Its just too dumb of a decision for a character like TIM.

Well, that's why we have Indoctrination.

You may not like it, but I do. The Reapers went after one of the biggest threats to their plans: Cerberus. Now that they have TIM, they have someone to hunt down Shephad while they continue Reaping. Not the best reason, but it works. Even if Pro-Cerbs think otherwise.

Railroading? Perhaps, but that happened in ME2, so I'm used to it.

Also, TIM never liked Aliens, he only uses them as a means to an end, because he was desperate.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 08:12 .

[SpectreSeven]

I'm really liking 3A, would be a killer twist!

[Blandi3737]

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

[quote]Blandi3737 wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

[quote]Blandi3737 wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

[quote]Blandi3737 wrote...



Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

[/quote]

TIM worked with aliens in ME2... Through Shepard but he did have a Cerberus vessel filled with Cerberus agents work with aliens to help humanity. Why would he care about the aliens taking advantage of a weak humanity when they themselves are going to be wrecked by the same Reapers wrecking Earth. TIM knows/knew humanity didnt stand a chance against the Reapers in it's current state, so him being shocked doesnt make sense. He already has a secret base, he doesnt need time to go make another.... There are just too many ways to poke holes in TIM turning against humanity and joining the Reapers. Its just too dumb of a decision for a character like TIM.

[/quote]

Well, that's why we have Indoctrination.

You may not like it, but I do. The Reapers went after one of the biggest threats to their plans: Cerberus. Now that they have TIM, they have someone to hunt down Shephad while they continue Reaping. Not the best reason, but it works. Even if Pro-Cerbs think otherwise.

Railroading? Perhaps, but that happened in ME2, so I'm used to it.


[/quote]

Meh, at least I dont lose my bet if TIM ends up indoctrinated out of nowhere. But like I said earlier to your thoughts on how he would become indoctrinated, he would definitely have contingencies for that.

[Bluefuse]

I laugh at the thought of BioWare making TIM indoctrinated. Look outside the box and realize that they would not do that to his character. Mac Walters said himself that he took pride in what he did with creating TIM. It would not give his character justice if he was indoctrinated...

[Flashlegend]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

If we have to go and completely annihilate the entire Cerberus organization and kill TIM I will return my game right then and there. Indoctrination, bs. Cerberus is the only organization that's even the slightest bit prepared for the Reapers. TIM making a deal with the devil? No fricking way, TIM has never been written as a retard. All I see is that BW needed a ground army for Shep to fight that wasnt just pure husks and bandits, and so they put in Cerberus because they are unpopular. Also, if we find out that TIM was indoctrinated the entire time, ME 2 would be the most pointless filler ever.

It wasn't pointless, but I never liked Cerberus to begin with. And TIM would do anything to protect Humanity, even if it meant making a deal with the devil. TIM isn't a retard, but he is arrogant and overconfident, and again, he will go to any lengths to protect Humanity, he said so himself. If he is Indoctrinated, I'll be alright with that, but they need something more. Like he had an ulterior motive, but he underestimated the Reapers, just like Saren. Large results, heavy risk. TIM might have taken a risk that he couldn't afford to take this time.

it would be pointless if we find out TIM was indoctrinated the whole time. It would make ME 2 nothing more than a rat race designed by the Reapers to just play with Shepard. So you are telling me the guy who knows that the Reapers DO NOT WORK WITH ORGANICS would try to make a deal with them? And then you are going to say that he isn't a retard for doing that? BS. And before you say "But the Reapers worked with Saren" or something to that degree with the geth. Just remember that the Reapers were going to dispose of them at the end of their campaign. The best you can do with the Reapers is to have your race become keepers, collectors, or new Reapers. Non of which TIM has shown any indication that he would allow humanity to become. I would also find it hard to believe that after the Grayson incident TIM would put himself in a position of danger/possible indoctrination. Iirc he basically beats himself up for being so exposed and kind of becomes paranoid (this part I am not too sure on).

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. TIM isn't a moron. He knows exactly how powerful the reapers are and what they are capable. Its nonsensical to think he would willingly aid the reapers in anyway whatsoever. How petty do you think TIM is? Survival is preferred to death/enslavement.(actually being genetically modified to be slaves) And who the hell is he buying time for? Humanity main forces and homeworld have already been defeated.

[GreenDragon37]

[quote]Blandi3737 wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

[quote]Blandi3737 wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

[quote]Blandi3737 wrote...

[quote]GreenDragon37 wrote...

[quote]Blandi3737 wrote...



Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

[/quote]

TIM worked with aliens in ME2... Through Shepard but he did have a Cerberus vessel filled with Cerberus agents work with aliens to help humanity. Why would he care about the aliens taking advantage of a weak humanity when they themselves are going to be wrecked by the same Reapers wrecking Earth. TIM knows/knew humanity didnt stand a chance against the Reapers in it's current state, so him being shocked doesnt make sense. He already has a secret base, he doesnt need time to go make another.... There are just too many ways to poke holes in TIM turning against humanity and joining the Reapers. Its just too dumb of a decision for a character like TIM.

[/quote]

Well, that's why we have Indoctrination.

You may not like it, but I do. The Reapers went after one of the biggest threats to their plans: Cerberus. Now that they have TIM, they have someone to hunt down Shephad while they continue Reaping. Not the best reason, but it works. Even if Pro-Cerbs think otherwise.

Railroading? Perhaps, but that happened in ME2, so I'm used to it.


[/quote]

Meh, at least I dont lose my bet if TIM ends up indoctrinated out of nowhere. But like I said earlier to your thoughts on how he would become indoctrinated, he would definitely have contingencies for that.
[/quote]

I agree that he would have contingencies, but maybe they all failed. The only contingency left is option 3A in the OP:

Survivalist

[Alphia]

I don’t think it would be such a bad thing if TIM was indoctrinated. We know from the books that he’s exposed to Reaper technology (and this occurs after the events of ME2). You don’t have to be stupid in order to become indoctrinated, we’ve seen it happen to countless scientists and Saren so why not TIM too?

As for the rest of Cerberus since TIM keeps his agents in the dark he’s the only one that has a big picture of Cerberus’ plans. It would make sense then that his agents would blindly follow him, trusting that what they’re doing will bring human advancement in the galaxy because they trust him.

[GreenDragon37]

Flashlegend wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

If we have to go and completely annihilate the entire Cerberus organization and kill TIM I will return my game right then and there. Indoctrination, bs. Cerberus is the only organization that's even the slightest bit prepared for the Reapers. TIM making a deal with the devil? No fricking way, TIM has never been written as a retard. All I see is that BW needed a ground army for Shep to fight that wasnt just pure husks and bandits, and so they put in Cerberus because they are unpopular. Also, if we find out that TIM was indoctrinated the entire time, ME 2 would be the most pointless filler ever.

It wasn't pointless, but I never liked Cerberus to begin with. And TIM would do anything to protect Humanity, even if it meant making a deal with the devil. TIM isn't a retard, but he is arrogant and overconfident, and again, he will go to any lengths to protect Humanity, he said so himself. If he is Indoctrinated, I'll be alright with that, but they need something more. Like he had an ulterior motive, but he underestimated the Reapers, just like Saren. Large results, heavy risk. TIM might have taken a risk that he couldn't afford to take this time.

it would be pointless if we find out TIM was indoctrinated the whole time. It would make ME 2 nothing more than a rat race designed by the Reapers to just play with Shepard. So you are telling me the guy who knows that the Reapers DO NOT WORK WITH ORGANICS would try to make a deal with them? And then you are going to say that he isn't a retard for doing that? BS. And before you say "But the Reapers worked with Saren" or something to that degree with the geth. Just remember that the Reapers were going to dispose of them at the end of their campaign. The best you can do with the Reapers is to have your race become keepers, collectors, or new Reapers. Non of which TIM has shown any indication that he would allow humanity to become. I would also find it hard to believe that after the Grayson incident TIM would put himself in a position of danger/possible indoctrination. Iirc he basically beats himself up for being so exposed and kind of becomes paranoid (this part I am not too sure on).

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. TIM isn't a moron. He knows exactly how powerful the reapers are and what they are capable. Its nonsensical to think he would willingly aid the reapers in anyway whatsoever. How petty do you think TIM is? Survival is preferred to death/enslavement.(actually being genetically modified to be slaves) And who the hell is he buying time for? Humanity main forces and homeworld have already been defeated.

How is it rediculous? He's buying time so that he can complete his final contingency:

The Survivalist: Save a few Human lives so that they can re-populate later.

TIM isn't an idiot, but indoctrination can turn even a brilliant man into a servant of the Reapers. Maybe he was already planning his final contingency before the Reapers arrived? It doesn't go against TIM's character at all if he was Indoctrinated, because Indoctrination screws everything up.

TIM would sacrifice himself if it meant Humanity's continuous survival (I think he would), so the Survivalist route isn't a bad idea.

Also, I'm sure the Fall of Earth would speed up the process of TIM's "Survivalist plan".

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 08:23 .

[Bluefuse]

Alphia wrote...

I don’t think it would be such a bad thing if TIM was indoctrinated. We know from the books that he’s exposed to Reaper technology (and this occurs after the events of ME2). You don’t have to be stupid in order to become indoctrinated, we’ve seen it happen to countless scientists and Saren so why not TIM too?

As for the rest of Cerberus since TIM keeps his agents in the dark he’s the only one that has a big picture of Cerberus’ plans. It would make sense then that his agents would blindly follow him, trusting that what they’re doing will bring human advancement in the galaxy because they trust him.

The simple fact of making TIM indoctrinated would not bring about the BEST story. BioWare has something better in mind, I'm sure. Notice that they left out all information about TIM so far. Finding out that he's indoctrinated after fighting waves of Cerberus troops would not impact the player as much as finding him not indoctrinated in ME3.

Modifié par Bluefuse, 10 juin 2011 - 08:22 .

[Blandi3737]

Alphia wrote...

I don’t think it would be such a bad thing if TIM was indoctrinated. We know from the books that he’s exposed to Reaper technology (and this occurs after the events of ME2). You don’t have to be stupid in order to become indoctrinated, we’ve seen it happen to countless scientists and Saren so why not TIM too?

As for the rest of Cerberus since TIM keeps his agents in the dark he’s the only one that has a big picture of Cerberus’ plans. It would make sense then that his agents would blindly follow him, trusting that what they’re doing will bring human advancement in the galaxy because they trust him.

Random scientist near a Reaper artifact and Saren riding around in a Reaper are a little different than TIM. If TIM isnt being over the top cautious (especially if he has Reaper tech in him) it just starts to degrade his character. TIM whether you hate or love him is a superb character and it feels like he is just being dumped on in the indoctrination route.

[GreenDragon37]

Bluefuse wrote...

Alphia wrote...

I don’t think it would be such a bad thing if TIM was indoctrinated. We know from the books that he’s exposed to Reaper technology (and this occurs after the events of ME2). You don’t have to be stupid in order to become indoctrinated, we’ve seen it happen to countless scientists and Saren so why not TIM too?

As for the rest of Cerberus since TIM keeps his agents in the dark he’s the only one that has a big picture of Cerberus’ plans. It would make sense then that his agents would blindly follow him, trusting that what they’re doing will bring human advancement in the galaxy because they trust him.

The simple fact of making TIM indoctrinated would not bring about the BEST story. BioWare has something better in mind, I'm sure. Notice that they left out all information about TIM so far. Finding out that he's indoctrinated after fighting waves of Cerberus troops would not impact the player as much as finding him not indoctrinated in ME3.

Something tells me that any story involving TIM being indoctrinated and/or working with the Reapers is a bad story in the eyes of the Pro-Cerb people.

Besides, who are you to decide it's the BEST storyline? I think him being indoctrinated, while having a survivalist plan in action is a great idea.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 08:26 .

[Blandi3737]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

If we have to go and completely annihilate the entire Cerberus organization and kill TIM I will return my game right then and there. Indoctrination, bs. Cerberus is the only organization that's even the slightest bit prepared for the Reapers. TIM making a deal with the devil? No fricking way, TIM has never been written as a retard. All I see is that BW needed a ground army for Shep to fight that wasnt just pure husks and bandits, and so they put in Cerberus because they are unpopular. Also, if we find out that TIM was indoctrinated the entire time, ME 2 would be the most pointless filler ever.

It wasn't pointless, but I never liked Cerberus to begin with. And TIM would do anything to protect Humanity, even if it meant making a deal with the devil. TIM isn't a retard, but he is arrogant and overconfident, and again, he will go to any lengths to protect Humanity, he said so himself. If he is Indoctrinated, I'll be alright with that, but they need something more. Like he had an ulterior motive, but he underestimated the Reapers, just like Saren. Large results, heavy risk. TIM might have taken a risk that he couldn't afford to take this time.

it would be pointless if we find out TIM was indoctrinated the whole time. It would make ME 2 nothing more than a rat race designed by the Reapers to just play with Shepard. So you are telling me the guy who knows that the Reapers DO NOT WORK WITH ORGANICS would try to make a deal with them? And then you are going to say that he isn't a retard for doing that? BS. And before you say "But the Reapers worked with Saren" or something to that degree with the geth. Just remember that the Reapers were going to dispose of them at the end of their campaign. The best you can do with the Reapers is to have your race become keepers, collectors, or new Reapers. Non of which TIM has shown any indication that he would allow humanity to become. I would also find it hard to believe that after the Grayson incident TIM would put himself in a position of danger/possible indoctrination. Iirc he basically beats himself up for being so exposed and kind of becomes paranoid (this part I am not too sure on).

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. TIM isn't a moron. He knows exactly how powerful the reapers are and what they are capable. Its nonsensical to think he would willingly aid the reapers in anyway whatsoever. How petty do you think TIM is? Survival is preferred to death/enslavement.(actually being genetically modified to be slaves) And who the hell is he buying time for? Humanity main forces and homeworld have already been defeated.

How is it rediculous? He's buying time so that he can complete his final contingency:

The Survivalist: Save a few Human lives so that they can re-populate later.

TIM isn't an idiot, but indoctrination can turn even a brilliant man into a servant of the Reapers. Maybe he was already planning his final contingency before the Reapers arrived? It doesn't go against TIM's character at all if he was Indoctrinated, because Indoctrination screws everything up.

TIM would sacrifice himself if it meant Humanity's continuous survival (I think he would), so the Survivalist route isn't a bad idea.

Also, I'm sure the Fall of Earth would speed up the process of TIM's "Survivalist plan".

A survivalist plan that includes fighting the galaxy's best hope of defeating the Reapers is a TERRIBLE survivalist plan.

[GreenDragon37]

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

If we have to go and completely annihilate the entire Cerberus organization and kill TIM I will return my game right then and there. Indoctrination, bs. Cerberus is the only organization that's even the slightest bit prepared for the Reapers. TIM making a deal with the devil? No fricking way, TIM has never been written as a retard. All I see is that BW needed a ground army for Shep to fight that wasnt just pure husks and bandits, and so they put in Cerberus because they are unpopular. Also, if we find out that TIM was indoctrinated the entire time, ME 2 would be the most pointless filler ever.

It wasn't pointless, but I never liked Cerberus to begin with. And TIM would do anything to protect Humanity, even if it meant making a deal with the devil. TIM isn't a retard, but he is arrogant and overconfident, and again, he will go to any lengths to protect Humanity, he said so himself. If he is Indoctrinated, I'll be alright with that, but they need something more. Like he had an ulterior motive, but he underestimated the Reapers, just like Saren. Large results, heavy risk. TIM might have taken a risk that he couldn't afford to take this time.

it would be pointless if we find out TIM was indoctrinated the whole time. It would make ME 2 nothing more than a rat race designed by the Reapers to just play with Shepard. So you are telling me the guy who knows that the Reapers DO NOT WORK WITH ORGANICS would try to make a deal with them? And then you are going to say that he isn't a retard for doing that? BS. And before you say "But the Reapers worked with Saren" or something to that degree with the geth. Just remember that the Reapers were going to dispose of them at the end of their campaign. The best you can do with the Reapers is to have your race become keepers, collectors, or new Reapers. Non of which TIM has shown any indication that he would allow humanity to become. I would also find it hard to believe that after the Grayson incident TIM would put himself in a position of danger/possible indoctrination. Iirc he basically beats himself up for being so exposed and kind of becomes paranoid (this part I am not too sure on).

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. TIM isn't a moron. He knows exactly how powerful the reapers are and what they are capable. Its nonsensical to think he would willingly aid the reapers in anyway whatsoever. How petty do you think TIM is? Survival is preferred to death/enslavement.(actually being genetically modified to be slaves) And who the hell is he buying time for? Humanity main forces and homeworld have already been defeated.

How is it rediculous? He's buying time so that he can complete his final contingency:

The Survivalist: Save a few Human lives so that they can re-populate later.

TIM isn't an idiot, but indoctrination can turn even a brilliant man into a servant of the Reapers. Maybe he was already planning his final contingency before the Reapers arrived? It doesn't go against TIM's character at all if he was Indoctrinated, because Indoctrination screws everything up.

TIM would sacrifice himself if it meant Humanity's continuous survival (I think he would), so the Survivalist route isn't a bad idea.

Also, I'm sure the Fall of Earth would speed up the process of TIM's "Survivalist plan".

A survivalist plan that includes fighting the galaxy's best hope of defeating the Reapers is a TERRIBLE survivalist plan.

Shep could have already failed in TIM's mind. He knows the power of the Reapers, and since Earth and the Alliance has been swept away, he sees no point. Maybe he is after Shep as part of his plan to appease the Reapers while TIM's contingency is underway.

You don't need Shep for the Survivalist Plan explained in the OP, you just need to stall the Reapers long enough.

[Blandi3737]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

If we have to go and completely annihilate the entire Cerberus organization and kill TIM I will return my game right then and there. Indoctrination, bs. Cerberus is the only organization that's even the slightest bit prepared for the Reapers. TIM making a deal with the devil? No fricking way, TIM has never been written as a retard. All I see is that BW needed a ground army for Shep to fight that wasnt just pure husks and bandits, and so they put in Cerberus because they are unpopular. Also, if we find out that TIM was indoctrinated the entire time, ME 2 would be the most pointless filler ever.

It wasn't pointless, but I never liked Cerberus to begin with. And TIM would do anything to protect Humanity, even if it meant making a deal with the devil. TIM isn't a retard, but he is arrogant and overconfident, and again, he will go to any lengths to protect Humanity, he said so himself. If he is Indoctrinated, I'll be alright with that, but they need something more. Like he had an ulterior motive, but he underestimated the Reapers, just like Saren. Large results, heavy risk. TIM might have taken a risk that he couldn't afford to take this time.

it would be pointless if we find out TIM was indoctrinated the whole time. It would make ME 2 nothing more than a rat race designed by the Reapers to just play with Shepard. So you are telling me the guy who knows that the Reapers DO NOT WORK WITH ORGANICS would try to make a deal with them? And then you are going to say that he isn't a retard for doing that? BS. And before you say "But the Reapers worked with Saren" or something to that degree with the geth. Just remember that the Reapers were going to dispose of them at the end of their campaign. The best you can do with the Reapers is to have your race become keepers, collectors, or new Reapers. Non of which TIM has shown any indication that he would allow humanity to become. I would also find it hard to believe that after the Grayson incident TIM would put himself in a position of danger/possible indoctrination. Iirc he basically beats himself up for being so exposed and kind of becomes paranoid (this part I am not too sure on).

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. TIM isn't a moron. He knows exactly how powerful the reapers are and what they are capable. Its nonsensical to think he would willingly aid the reapers in anyway whatsoever. How petty do you think TIM is? Survival is preferred to death/enslavement.(actually being genetically modified to be slaves) And who the hell is he buying time for? Humanity main forces and homeworld have already been defeated.

How is it rediculous? He's buying time so that he can complete his final contingency:

The Survivalist: Save a few Human lives so that they can re-populate later.

TIM isn't an idiot, but indoctrination can turn even a brilliant man into a servant of the Reapers. Maybe he was already planning his final contingency before the Reapers arrived? It doesn't go against TIM's character at all if he was Indoctrinated, because Indoctrination screws everything up.

TIM would sacrifice himself if it meant Humanity's continuous survival (I think he would), so the Survivalist route isn't a bad idea.

Also, I'm sure the Fall of Earth would speed up the process of TIM's "Survivalist plan".

A survivalist plan that includes fighting the galaxy's best hope of defeating the Reapers is a TERRIBLE survivalist plan.

Shep could have already failed in TIM's mind. He knows the power of the Reapers, and since Earth and the Alliance has been swept away, he sees no point. Maybe he is after Shep as part of his plan to appease the Reapers while TIM's contingency is underway.

You don't need Shep for the Survivalist Plan explained in the OP, you just need to stall the Reapers long enough.

Ive already told you that he has a secret base already. He doesnt need time to make another. He can enact this so called survivalist plan at ANY TIME. Why would he try to appease the Reapers and buy time if he ALREADY has a secret base.

[Kabanya101]

I'm putting my money on indoctrination.


The Illusive Man's actions end up the same, but the reasoning behind them changes on what you did at the end of ME2. So....

Destroyed the Base:
He wants revenge. He not only wants to kill Shep for destroying the base, but he also wants to capture reaper technology and since he knows Shep would dissaprove: simple solution, just kill him. TIM gets reaper technology, and then gets indoctrinated, and ends up aiding the reapers in killing Shep and Earth.

Saved the Base:
Two things can span from this, he gets indoctrinated right aways, or he goes through the base's records and finds there is no way to kill/stop the reapers, so he joins them instead of being killed, and then gets indoctrinated.

[GreenDragon37]

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

If we have to go and completely annihilate the entire Cerberus organization and kill TIM I will return my game right then and there. Indoctrination, bs. Cerberus is the only organization that's even the slightest bit prepared for the Reapers. TIM making a deal with the devil? No fricking way, TIM has never been written as a retard. All I see is that BW needed a ground army for Shep to fight that wasnt just pure husks and bandits, and so they put in Cerberus because they are unpopular. Also, if we find out that TIM was indoctrinated the entire time, ME 2 would be the most pointless filler ever.

It wasn't pointless, but I never liked Cerberus to begin with. And TIM would do anything to protect Humanity, even if it meant making a deal with the devil. TIM isn't a retard, but he is arrogant and overconfident, and again, he will go to any lengths to protect Humanity, he said so himself. If he is Indoctrinated, I'll be alright with that, but they need something more. Like he had an ulterior motive, but he underestimated the Reapers, just like Saren. Large results, heavy risk. TIM might have taken a risk that he couldn't afford to take this time.

it would be pointless if we find out TIM was indoctrinated the whole time. It would make ME 2 nothing more than a rat race designed by the Reapers to just play with Shepard. So you are telling me the guy who knows that the Reapers DO NOT WORK WITH ORGANICS would try to make a deal with them? And then you are going to say that he isn't a retard for doing that? BS. And before you say "But the Reapers worked with Saren" or something to that degree with the geth. Just remember that the Reapers were going to dispose of them at the end of their campaign. The best you can do with the Reapers is to have your race become keepers, collectors, or new Reapers. Non of which TIM has shown any indication that he would allow humanity to become. I would also find it hard to believe that after the Grayson incident TIM would put himself in a position of danger/possible indoctrination. Iirc he basically beats himself up for being so exposed and kind of becomes paranoid (this part I am not too sure on).

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. TIM isn't a moron. He knows exactly how powerful the reapers are and what they are capable. Its nonsensical to think he would willingly aid the reapers in anyway whatsoever. How petty do you think TIM is? Survival is preferred to death/enslavement.(actually being genetically modified to be slaves) And who the hell is he buying time for? Humanity main forces and homeworld have already been defeated.

How is it rediculous? He's buying time so that he can complete his final contingency:

The Survivalist: Save a few Human lives so that they can re-populate later.

TIM isn't an idiot, but indoctrination can turn even a brilliant man into a servant of the Reapers. Maybe he was already planning his final contingency before the Reapers arrived? It doesn't go against TIM's character at all if he was Indoctrinated, because Indoctrination screws everything up.

TIM would sacrifice himself if it meant Humanity's continuous survival (I think he would), so the Survivalist route isn't a bad idea.

Also, I'm sure the Fall of Earth would speed up the process of TIM's "Survivalist plan".

A survivalist plan that includes fighting the galaxy's best hope of defeating the Reapers is a TERRIBLE survivalist plan.

Shep could have already failed in TIM's mind. He knows the power of the Reapers, and since Earth and the Alliance has been swept away, he sees no point. Maybe he is after Shep as part of his plan to appease the Reapers while TIM's contingency is underway.

You don't need Shep for the Survivalist Plan explained in the OP, you just need to stall the Reapers long enough.

Ive already told you that he has a secret base already. He doesnt need time to make another. He can enact this so called survivalist plan at ANY TIME. Why would he try to appease the Reapers and buy time if he ALREADY has a secret base.

If he is indoctrinated, the Reapers already know where he is. Besides, TIM is smart. Why keep all of your people at that one secret base? Throw the Reapers off your trail. Spread 'em out. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. If he is not indoctrinated, then he still smart, because he knows not to put his eggs all in one basket, the obvious place: find TIM, find the last of Humanity.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 08:37 .

[Blandi3737]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Flashlegend wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

If we have to go and completely annihilate the entire Cerberus organization and kill TIM I will return my game right then and there. Indoctrination, bs. Cerberus is the only organization that's even the slightest bit prepared for the Reapers. TIM making a deal with the devil? No fricking way, TIM has never been written as a retard. All I see is that BW needed a ground army for Shep to fight that wasnt just pure husks and bandits, and so they put in Cerberus because they are unpopular. Also, if we find out that TIM was indoctrinated the entire time, ME 2 would be the most pointless filler ever.

It wasn't pointless, but I never liked Cerberus to begin with. And TIM would do anything to protect Humanity, even if it meant making a deal with the devil. TIM isn't a retard, but he is arrogant and overconfident, and again, he will go to any lengths to protect Humanity, he said so himself. If he is Indoctrinated, I'll be alright with that, but they need something more. Like he had an ulterior motive, but he underestimated the Reapers, just like Saren. Large results, heavy risk. TIM might have taken a risk that he couldn't afford to take this time.

it would be pointless if we find out TIM was indoctrinated the whole time. It would make ME 2 nothing more than a rat race designed by the Reapers to just play with Shepard. So you are telling me the guy who knows that the Reapers DO NOT WORK WITH ORGANICS would try to make a deal with them? And then you are going to say that he isn't a retard for doing that? BS. And before you say "But the Reapers worked with Saren" or something to that degree with the geth. Just remember that the Reapers were going to dispose of them at the end of their campaign. The best you can do with the Reapers is to have your race become keepers, collectors, or new Reapers. Non of which TIM has shown any indication that he would allow humanity to become. I would also find it hard to believe that after the Grayson incident TIM would put himself in a position of danger/possible indoctrination. Iirc he basically beats himself up for being so exposed and kind of becomes paranoid (this part I am not too sure on).

Well, Cerberus's ultimate goal is to "protect Humanity" (lol)

Ahem, anyway, Earth is lost, and Earth has most of the Human population on it, even more than the colonies. Apparently, BioWare is making the Alliance lose its fleet at the battle (ugh). So, Cerberus sees that the situation might be hopeless, and he would rather die than see Aliens come to the aid of Humanity, because he thinks they will occupy the colonies and take advantage of a weakened Humanity (if they win and if they come to our aid). So, TIM sides with the Reapers, because he is shocked to see how easily Humanity was steam-rolled, and figures the only way to survive is to help the Reapers, giving Humanity some time.

Maybe his plan involved making a bunker like the Protheans, so a select few Humans will survive the aftermath, so when the Reapers leave, Humanity will rise from the ashes. He won't survive, but Humanity will.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous. TIM isn't a moron. He knows exactly how powerful the reapers are and what they are capable. Its nonsensical to think he would willingly aid the reapers in anyway whatsoever. How petty do you think TIM is? Survival is preferred to death/enslavement.(actually being genetically modified to be slaves) And who the hell is he buying time for? Humanity main forces and homeworld have already been defeated.

How is it rediculous? He's buying time so that he can complete his final contingency:

The Survivalist: Save a few Human lives so that they can re-populate later.

TIM isn't an idiot, but indoctrination can turn even a brilliant man into a servant of the Reapers. Maybe he was already planning his final contingency before the Reapers arrived? It doesn't go against TIM's character at all if he was Indoctrinated, because Indoctrination screws everything up.

TIM would sacrifice himself if it meant Humanity's continuous survival (I think he would), so the Survivalist route isn't a bad idea.

Also, I'm sure the Fall of Earth would speed up the process of TIM's "Survivalist plan".

A survivalist plan that includes fighting the galaxy's best hope of defeating the Reapers is a TERRIBLE survivalist plan.

Shep could have already failed in TIM's mind. He knows the power of the Reapers, and since Earth and the Alliance has been swept away, he sees no point. Maybe he is after Shep as part of his plan to appease the Reapers while TIM's contingency is underway.

You don't need Shep for the Survivalist Plan explained in the OP, you just need to stall the Reapers long enough.

Ive already told you that he has a secret base already. He doesnt need time to make another. He can enact this so called survivalist plan at ANY TIME. Why would he try to appease the Reapers and buy time if he ALREADY has a secret base.

If he is indoctrinated, the Reapers already know where he is. Besides, TIM is smart. Why keep all of your people at that one secret base? Throw the Reapers off your trail. Spread 'em out. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. If he is not indoctrinated, then he still smart, because he knows not to put his eggs all in one basket, the obvious place: find TIM, find the last of Humanity.

Oh my god, now we are combining indoctrination theory with survivalist theory? HOW IS HE USING HIS FREE WILL TO ENACT THIS SURVIVALIST PLAN IF HE IS INDOCTRINATED? TIM's best chance of survival is to stay on his secret base and avoid the Reapers, preventing indoctrination, saving everyone in the base, and preventing the Reapers from stumbling across one of these "bases" and realizing they have to hunt all of them down. You aren't giving TIM the credit the ME universe demands that you do....

[GreenDragon37]

Blandi3737 wrote...

Oh my god, now we are combining indoctrination theory with survivalist theory? HOW IS HE USING HIS FREE WILL TO ENACT THIS SURVIVALIST PLAN IF HE IS INDOCTRINATED? TIM's best chance of survival is to stay on his secret base and avoid the Reapers, preventing indoctrination, saving everyone in the base, and preventing the Reapers from stumbling across one of these "bases" and realizing they have to hunt all of them down. You aren't giving TIM the credit the ME universe demands that you do....

Because he's Human like everyone else. He's not infalliabe. He knew the Reapers were coming, and he decided to inact a survivalist contingency plan. However, while in the process of this, he became completely indoctrinated. TIM would have destroyed whatever records he had of Cerberus's plans, again, as a pre-caution. It's not hard to believe.

[Blandi3737]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

Oh my god, now we are combining indoctrination theory with survivalist theory? HOW IS HE USING HIS FREE WILL TO ENACT THIS SURVIVALIST PLAN IF HE IS INDOCTRINATED? TIM's best chance of survival is to stay on his secret base and avoid the Reapers, preventing indoctrination, saving everyone in the base, and preventing the Reapers from stumbling across one of these "bases" and realizing they have to hunt all of them down. You aren't giving TIM the credit the ME universe demands that you do....

Because he's Human like everyone else. He's not infalliabe. He knew the Reapers were coming, and he decided to inact a survivalist contingency plan. However, while in the process of this, he became completely indoctrinated. TIM would have destroyed whatever records he had of Cerberus's plans, again, as a pre-caution. It's not hard to believe.

Unless they magic indoctrinate him on his secret base I dont see TIM putting himself in a position to become indoctrinated. Not to mention if TIM was ever going to go down the survivalist path he would have started it as a contingency before the Collector base was destroyed/captured. 

[GreenDragon37]

Blandi3737 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Blandi3737 wrote...

Oh my god, now we are combining indoctrination theory with survivalist theory? HOW IS HE USING HIS FREE WILL TO ENACT THIS SURVIVALIST PLAN IF HE IS INDOCTRINATED? TIM's best chance of survival is to stay on his secret base and avoid the Reapers, preventing indoctrination, saving everyone in the base, and preventing the Reapers from stumbling across one of these "bases" and realizing they have to hunt all of them down. You aren't giving TIM the credit the ME universe demands that you do....

Because he's Human like everyone else. He's not infalliabe. He knew the Reapers were coming, and he decided to inact a survivalist contingency plan. However, while in the process of this, he became completely indoctrinated. TIM would have destroyed whatever records he had of Cerberus's plans, again, as a pre-caution. It's not hard to believe.

Unless they magic indoctrinate him on his secret base I dont see TIM putting himself in a position to become indoctrinated. Not to mention if TIM was ever going to go down the survivalist path he would have started it as a contingency before the Collector base was destroyed/captured. 

How do you know he hasn't? No-one knew TIM had so many ships, or a big army. I doubt we know half of what Cerberus does. TIM is a smart man, right? He would have had plans.