237 réponses à ce sujet

[Eurhetemec]

I just wanted to say nice thread, and thanks for editing my thread on the subject into the theories! Some of these other ones are also totally viable. It'll be very interesting to see which way BioWare jump in the end on this.

[Lumikki]

Hard to say what's the reason, but TIM working agaist Reapers and Shepard same time is very unlikely, because even TIM isn't that crazy or stupid.

My ques would be that while Reapers where after Shepard, they where also after TIM. They did not get Shepard, but got TIM. So, it's sort of forceful relation between TIM and Reapers, how or why doesn't really matter. As long it's about Reapers wanting TIM to go after Shepard. In my opinion this make most sense to me.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 juin 2011 - 07:23 .

[Lumikki]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The more I think about it the more likely I think it is that with Earth conquered and the Alliance defeated TIM realizes two things:

1.) The war may not be winnable

2.) Even if it is won humans will forever be relegated to the aliens' shadow


With that in mind he decides the best thing for humanity is to submit to the Reapers. It might be flawed reasoning on his part, but he's a flawed man. His pride is interfering with his judgement.

That's one options, consider what happens in ME3, but that wasn't TIM's only option.

Example if TIM would have thinked War is not winnable, then there is 3 options.

1. Go to War and die
2. Surrender and hope for mercy
3. Hide and hope that enemy will not find you

What choise you think TIM would have choosen?

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 juin 2011 - 07:35 .

[Dean_the_Young]

4. Try an ambitious plot to win that is not conventional war, or die trying.


TIM's hardly a nihilist, though. Nor is he one to quit in the face of overwhelming odds.

[Dean_the_Young]

Surrender only has a logical basis when the presumption that a surrender will be honored is agreed upon. (It isn't.)

Hoping isn't doomed to failure. More importantly, don't fight to the death: fight to victory.

[Lumikki]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You must know TIM better than I.

I'm just speculation different options. I don't know TIM any better than anyone. It's about choises.

hiding and hoping is doomed to failure.

Why?

That's exactly what Protheans did and they allmost did make it.

Surrender at least has a logical basis to it.

Is it? Have reapers actually saved any organic race?
Is there over 50 000 year old organic race in galaxy?

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 juin 2011 - 07:53 .

[Lumikki]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Why?

That's exactly what Protheans did and they allmost did make it.

The Reapers won't make the same mistake twice.

True, but universe is big place to look, do you think they can search every rock and space in next 50 000 years?

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 juin 2011 - 07:52 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Surrender only has a logical basis when the presumption that a surrender will be honored is agreed upon. (It isn't.)

We know it will be with the Reapers because we know that what they desire is our species itself. If we surrender they have it and our species survives.

It doesn't. All that we know of and as Humanity will be destroyed. The Human Reaper is created from Humans, it is not Humanity.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

More importantly, don't fight to the death: fight to victory.

That phrase would sound hollow if I locked you in a cage with an enraged tribe of chimpanzees.

You'll learn it soon enough in the military if you haven't already: the whole 'I will fight to the death!' mentality is a loser's mentality.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Lumikki wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

You must know TIM better than I.

I'm just speculation different options. I don't know TIM any better than anyone. It's about choises.

hiding and hoping is doomed to failure.

Why?

That's exactly what Protheans did and they allmost did make it.

Surrender at least has a logical basis to it.

Is it? Have reapers actually saved any organic race?
Is there over 50 000 yeear old organic race in galaxy?

I can't remember the exact quotes from ME1 but I think its the advanced organic races that the Reapers harvest, 50,000years ago we were still living in caves, being hunter/gatherer's.

[Lumikki]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Is it? Have reapers actually saved any organic race?
Is there over 50 000 yeear old organic race in galaxy?

I can't remember the exact quotes from ME1 but I think its the advanced organic races that the Reapers harvest, 50,000years ago we were still living in caves, being hunter/gatherer's.

Yes, that's pretty much right. Every 50 000 year reapers comes and kill all advanced races. So, why would TIM think that reapers would allow his race to survice over 50 000 year even as been slave? Because now reapers are back to kill us all.

That was the point, why TIM would think they would save him? Because that's only reason why to surrender to reapers.
You never surrrender to someone who will kill you anyway.

Modifié par Lumikki, 29 juin 2011 - 08:04 .

[Lumikki]

Saphra Deden wrote...

They will allow us to survive as a new Reaper. I never said they'd permit humanity to continue in its present form. That form is superior to extinction.

Okey, TIM surrender because he want to be juice of bilogical material to help reapers to build new reapers. Remember ME2, it did takes a lot of humans to even make one reaper. How many colonies it was?

Yeah, good option..

[Dave of Canada]

So a man who's spent the past thirty or so years preparing for the Reaper invasion in every way possible, supplied his species with technologies to assist in the war, has experimented with other technologies to control other species to be used in the invasion as shock troopers to save human lives, brought back Shepard and outfitted them to lead their armies against the Reapers...

... gives up immediately upon their arrival?

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

So a man who's spent the past thirty or so years preparing for the Reaper invasion in every way possible, supplied his species with technologies to assist in the war, has experimented with other technologies to control other species to be used in the invasion as shock troopers to save human lives, brought back Shepard and outfitted them to lead their armies against the Reapers...

... gives up immediately upon their arrival?

If the situation is grim enough? Yes. All of that past planning and action doesn't mean much if the war is already lost as far as he's concerned. TIM's all about making tough choices and chosing to surrender rather than fight on pointlessly is a touch choice.

The problem with surrender, is that its a one way ticket to the slush factory. TIM is a human, possiby, and human = organic juice. Reapers don't value organics, unless they're indoctrinated slaves who are then, if not consumed, left to die of exposure and/or starvation after the Reapers pull out.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Calinstel wrote...

Tim is just using Cerberus as a smoke screen. Playing along with the Reapers in an attempt to draw their eye's away from what Shepard is doing. He may die (doubtful) but humanity may still survive.

/relurk

I wonder how many times this kind of scenario may have played out in the 1000's, or millions, of times the Reapers have invaded? The Reapers aren't daft.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

The problem with surrender, is that its a one way ticket to the slush factory.

Have you not read a single damned word I've said? I've covered this.

To be honest, not every damned word no.

But the general gist is you don't surrender to something which does not value you, apart from being part of a sluhy pulp for its own ingestion.