Jowan was considered one because he WAS one. An eyewitness had SEEN him cast blood magic. Every goddamn mage have knowledge of blood magic, that doesn't make them blood mages.
But since most of you refuses to read and accept the lore, and realize you have to make a deal with a demon before you can become a blood mage (and EVERY single codex entry about how you actually learn blood magic, tells you to contact a demon. EVERY single one of them), it is useless to try and enlighten you.
Blood Magic, Why use it?
Débuté par
BurstAngel75
, juin 09 2011 10:51
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#77
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 06:48
Wulfram
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
He said by Chantry standards Adralla is a maleficar. Jowan was considered one by Gregoir for just skimming over a book on blood magic, but he had never actually used it until his escape plan was foiled.
They kept the books, so I assume some people were allowed to read them. Just not apprentices of dubious quality and trustworthiness.
#78
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 06:50
TEWR
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so reading a book is contacting a demon?
Damn.... those demons are crafty hiders..... just like those damn gnomes.
Damn.... those demons are crafty hiders..... just like those damn gnomes.
#79
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 06:53
EmperorSahlertz
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And again you fail.
What does the book instruct you to do? DING DING DING! Contact a demon!
What does the book further tell you to? DING DING DING! Strike a bargain with a demon!
Reading an instruction manual does not manufacture a locker. It tells you how to. The book Jowan read was the instruction manual to contact a demon, the demon taught him the blood magic.
What does the book instruct you to do? DING DING DING! Contact a demon!
What does the book further tell you to? DING DING DING! Strike a bargain with a demon!
Reading an instruction manual does not manufacture a locker. It tells you how to. The book Jowan read was the instruction manual to contact a demon, the demon taught him the blood magic.
#80
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 06:54
The Baconer
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And again you fail.
What does the book instruct you to do? DING DING DING! Contact a demon!
What does the book further tell you to? DING DING DING! Strike a bargain with a demon!
Reading an instruction manual does not manufacture a locker. It tells you how to. The book Jowan read was the instruction manual to contact a demon, the demon taught him the blood magic.
[citation needed]
#81
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 06:55
TEWR
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Wulfram wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
He said by Chantry standards Adralla is a maleficar. Jowan was considered one by Gregoir for just skimming over a book on blood magic, but he had never actually used it until his escape plan was foiled.
They kept the books, so I assume some people were allowed to read them. Just not apprentices of dubious quality and trustworthiness.
they were moved to Irving's office. I think they use it as a way to capture mages who do read it. Which is faulty logic.
"We don't want any blood mages but let's keep these books on blood magic so we can catch some blood mages!"
They're a bunch of ****s if you ask me.
#82
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 06:56
TEWR
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And again you fail.
What does the book instruct you to do? DING DING DING! Contact a demon!
What does the book further tell you to? DING DING DING! Strike a bargain with a demon!
Reading an instruction manual does not manufacture a locker. It tells you how to. The book Jowan read was the instruction manual to contact a demon, the demon taught him the blood magic.
good to know that you know what a book actually says when you don't live in Thedas. How long was the airplane trip to get there? I'm dying to visit Ferelden and get my own Mabari.
#83
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:03
EmperorSahlertz
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All the codex entries we have regarding the teaching of blood magic says to contact a demon. I have zero reason to believe the one Jowan read was any different.
You do obviously, because that is all you are basing your arguements on. If what he read was to contact a demon, pretty much the entire arguement of demons not being required crumbles to dust.
You do obviously, because that is all you are basing your arguements on. If what he read was to contact a demon, pretty much the entire arguement of demons not being required crumbles to dust.
#85
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:17
TEWR
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
All the codex entries we have regarding the teaching of blood magic says to contact a demon. I have zero reason to believe the one Jowan read was any different.
You do obviously, because that is all you are basing your arguements on. If what he read was to contact a demon, pretty much the entire arguement of demons not being required crumbles to dust.
Really, what entries are those? I just read Blood Magic: The Forbidden School and nowhere did it mention that you must contact a demon.
Admittedly, I'm not too far in my latest Origins playthrough so I'm missing a lot of entries.
I believe that anyone can discover the power of blood magic, and demons only teach how to properly use it.
And if someone were to write how to properly use it in a book, then you don't have to contact a demon!
#86
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:17
The Baconer
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
All the codex entries we have regarding the teaching of blood magic says to contact a demon.
Which ones specifically? Blood Magic: The Forbidden School makes no mention of requiring demons to learn it. Nor is it mentioned in the Apostates entry. Or the specialization description. Or the entry on Maleficarum.
#87
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:25
EmperorSahlertz
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None of those entries are about the teaching of blood magic. The Scroll of Banastor is the entry you are looking for. One of the few entries actually regarding how to learn blood magic. Another, about the origin of blood magic, would be the one about Xebenkeck.
All the others are simply dealing with legends and speculations. The scrolls however deals with actuality, and the one of Xebenkeck is the most detailed entry about the origins of Blood Magic we got.
All the others are simply dealing with legends and speculations. The scrolls however deals with actuality, and the one of Xebenkeck is the most detailed entry about the origins of Blood Magic we got.
Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 10 juin 2011 - 07:26 .
#88
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:28
Nodscouter
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I could go for some chips myself actually.happy_daiz wrote...
Popcorn, anyone?
#89
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:31
TEWR
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The one detailing Xebenkeck seems to be the closest thing we have to the actual origins of blood magic. Nothing in it suggests that one must always call Xebenkeck or any other demon. At least to the best of my recollection.
#90
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:33
Eveangaline
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Didn't anders imply that the very basic bit of blood magic, aka casting from hitpoints, could be learned by accident? When he talked to merril he made it seem like mages could innately use their blood instead of lyruim.
#91
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:45
The Baconer
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
None of those entries are about the teaching of blood magic. The Scroll of Banastor is the entry you are looking for. One of the few entries actually regarding how to learn blood magic.
The described ritual requires blood magic to do in the first place. One could just as easily say it's an instruction on the Evocation and binding of demons, and refinement of Blood Magic, rather than being taught the practice itself. Besides, it wouldn't look good for the Chantry if they had to do this everytime they construct a Phylactery. Or do they?
Another, about the origin of blood magic, would be the one about Xebenkeck.
All the others are simply dealing with legends and speculations. The scrolls however deals with actuality, and the one of Xebenkeck is the most detailed entry about the origins of Blood Magic we got.
Xebenkeck's entry does indeed describe the origin of Blood Magic. This however, doesn't help your claim any more than the specialization description does.
Modifié par The Baconer, 10 juin 2011 - 07:45 .
#92
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:52
TEWR
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Eveangaline wrote...
Didn't anders imply that the very basic bit of blood magic, aka casting from hitpoints, could be learned by accident? When he talked to merril he made it seem like mages could innately use their blood instead of lyruim.
yes he did. I would've brought Anders' mention of it up but I think Emperor Sahlertz has said on a few threads before how we can't trust Anders' word on that, and I don't want to get into that debate again.
But I did say something similar to what Anders said a while back.
#93
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 07:59
LobselVith8
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
All the codex entries we have regarding the teaching of blood magic says to contact a demon. I have zero reason to believe the one Jowan read was any different.
It's addressed some believe the Arlathan elves taught the Tevinter mages how to use blood mage.
EmperorSahlertz wrote...
You do obviously, because that is all you are basing your arguements on. If what he read was to contact a demon, pretty much the entire arguement of demons not being required crumbles to dust.
Except your theory has nothing in canon to support it, particularly when one of the codex entries mentions that it's popular belief in Tevinter that the Old God Dumat taught the Magisters how to use blood magic.
Modifié par LobselVith8, 10 juin 2011 - 08:02 .
#94
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 08:19
EmperorSahlertz
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Oh and popular belief is truth now? Then I guess mages are a threat to everyhting around them, yes?
Nothing in canon support the Old Gods teaching it, everything supports demons teaching it.
And the ritual described in the scrolls of banastor does not require blood magic, it requires your blood. There is a difference, which many on this forum fail to grasp between the two.
(and quickly about Anders: When he makes that remark he is obviously being sarcastic, and therefore the credibility of waht is said is suspect)
Nothing in canon support the Old Gods teaching it, everything supports demons teaching it.
And the ritual described in the scrolls of banastor does not require blood magic, it requires your blood. There is a difference, which many on this forum fail to grasp between the two.
(and quickly about Anders: When he makes that remark he is obviously being sarcastic, and therefore the credibility of waht is said is suspect)
#95
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 08:21
The Baconer
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And the ritual described in the scrolls of banastor does not require blood magic, it requires your blood. There is a difference, which many on this forum fail to grasp between the two.
Then would you concede that the Chantry contacts demons in the construction of a Phylactery?
#96
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 08:24
EmperorSahlertz
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No, because that isn't blood magic. The creation of phylacteries aren't blood magic, as the blood used is not the power source in the magic being cast. It could be considered blood magic since blood is invovled, but such an assesment would be incorrect. Much like the ritual Finn do in Cadash Thaig, and the Joinning.
Nor am I even certain a demon would have to be contacted every time you cast blood magic.
Nor am I even certain a demon would have to be contacted every time you cast blood magic.
#97
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 08:30
The Baconer
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
No, because that isn't blood magic.
Yep. Confirmed by Gaider. Or are you gonna pull a Polaris?
#98
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 08:41
EmperorSahlertz
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Gaider said it "could be viewed as blood magic" He didn't say: "Yes it is blood magic". At least not in the thread I recall. And there is a very clear difference between being viwed as, and actually being.
#99
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 08:48
The Baconer
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EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Gaider said it "could be viewed as blood magic" He didn't say: "Yes it is blood magic". At least not in the thread I recall. And there is a very clear difference between being viwed as, and actually being.
In the video, he says as quoted: "It's technically blood magic"
If you're going to play the backpeddling and nitpicking game with this, I will do so as well concerning the Scrolls of Banastor.
#100
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 08:54
EmperorSahlertz
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I admit I have not seen the video you are refering to. But he has also said something to the effect of what I said, that it could be viewed as blood magic. The fact that he says that it is technically blood magic, also leads me to believe that it isn't "proper" blood magic, but reather magic involving blood.
Either way, I'm still not going to say that Chantry summons demons to create phylacteries. Especially since I have no cluea s to how they are created. For all I know there isn't even any magic from mage hand involved. It could be they simply draw blood, mix with lyrium and pour into a vial.
Either way, I'm still not going to say that Chantry summons demons to create phylacteries. Especially since I have no cluea s to how they are created. For all I know there isn't even any magic from mage hand involved. It could be they simply draw blood, mix with lyrium and pour into a vial.
