56 réponses à ce sujet

[Fidget6]

graciegrace wrote...

Collider wrote...

I think the problem with Zevran for me was that it was clear (imo) that he preferred women, even when you were playing as a male warden.

Zevran was bisexual, which is an existing sexuality and also deserves representation.  He and Leliana were very well written bisexuals, especially compared to the DA2 mess.

I think Fenris and Merrill seemed forced, the rest of the bi characters in Dragon Age were handled pretty well though. And I agree it's excellent bisexuals are getting such positive representation in Bioware games. It'd be even more excellent if homosexuals were handled just as well. 

[Collider]

graciegrace wrote...
Zevran was bisexual, which is an existing sexuality and also deserves representation.

Of course.
However, I don't like how all of the bisexual male love interests (besides Fenris) still have this tendency towards females. Almost as if they're afraid to make them "too" gay.

Meanwhile, you have Liara and Leliana who seem to be more inclined towards the same sex. Almost like there's a double standard here.

That said, I'm complaining about something that's already said and done. I just hope that whoever is the M/M option in ME3 isn't another case of "I'd rather be with a woman, but I guess you'll do"

Modifié par Collider, 10 juin 2011 - 02:39 .

[Ryzaki]

graciegrace wrote...

Collider wrote...

I think the problem with Zevran for me was that it was clear (imo) that he preferred women, even when you were playing as a male warden.

Zevran was bisexual, which is an existing sexuality and also deserves representation.  He and Leliana were very well written bisexuals, especially compared to the DA2 mess.

 

Funny I find them pretty meh compared to DA2's characters. 

[graciegrace]

Collider wrote...

graciegrace wrote...
Zevran was bisexual, which is an existing sexuality and also deserves representation.

Of course.
However, I don't like how all of the bisexual male love interests (besides Fenris) still have this tendency towards females. Almost as if they're afraid to make them "too" gay.

Meanwhile, you have Liara and Leliana who seem to be more inclined towards the same sex. Almost like there's a double standard here.

That said, I'm complaining about something that's already said and done. I just hope that whoever is the M/M option in ME3 isn't another case of "I'd rather be with a woman, but I guess you'll do"

While I agree, I still didn't find anything wrong with Zevran.  Sexuality does work that way in the real world as well.  Also, I have to disagree about Anders since, if you play MHawke, Anders is VERY obviously attracted more towards men (he even tells you about a liason with a male at the circle), which I know is a retcon of DAA, but i the continuity of DA2 he doesn't necessarily prefer women.

I just don't want them to pull what they did with DA2, where everyone was Hawkesexual.  I want legitimate homosexual or bisexual characters who are not just Shephardsexual.

Modifié par graciegrace, 10 juin 2011 - 02:42 .

[jlb524]

I'm not sure what's so bad about the DA2 s/s romances...I thought the f/f ones (Merrill/Isabela) were well done, at least...on par with others like Leliana, Liara, etc.

graciegrace wrote...

I just don't want them to pull what they did with DA2, where everyone was Hawkesexual.  I want legitimate homosexual or bisexual characters who are not just Shephardsexual.

What is a 'legitimate' homosexual/bisexual character?

For that matter, what's a 'legitimate' heterosexual one?

Modifié par jlb524, 10 juin 2011 - 02:44 .

[Homebound]

i dont think we'll haave any new li's in me3. having more now would put a drain on the current ones. im guessing this is about maleshep specifically and his lack of m/m romance.

[jbblue05]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

Achievement Unlocked


Anal Ownage: Pursue a gay relationship in Mass Effect 3.

[slimgrin]

Topic of doom.

[Fidget6]

slimgrin wrote...

Topic of doom.

It's remained civil so far, as these threads go. I'm hoping it stays that way for at least another few pages. *fingers crossed*

[jbblue05]

jlb524 wrote...

I'm not sure what's so bad about the DA2 s/s romances...I thought the f/f ones (Merrill/Isabela) were well done, at least...on par with others like Leliana, Liara, etc.

I think a lot of people didn't like the idea of Anders all of a sudden becoming gay.
In DAA he constanly flirted with female npc's and the female warden and all of a sudden he's a catcher

[Collider]

While I agree, I still didn't find anything wrong with Zevran.

Well, it's not so much that there's something wrong with Zevran. There is nothing wrong with being bisexual but preferring one gender over the other, after all.
It's more being reminded that he likes women better when you're a male warden and trying to romance him. I think most people wouldn't like to think/know that they're second best and that their partner would rather be with another gender.

I think I heard that Ander's writer said Ander's bisexuality has something to do with being possessed by Justice...which is pretty silly if true.

[Fidget6]

graciegrace wrote...

Collider wrote...

graciegrace wrote...
Zevran was bisexual, which is an existing sexuality and also deserves representation.

Of course.
However, I don't like how all of the bisexual male love interests (besides Fenris) still have this tendency towards females. Almost as if they're afraid to make them "too" gay.

Meanwhile, you have Liara and Leliana who seem to be more inclined towards the same sex. Almost like there's a double standard here.

That said, I'm complaining about something that's already said and done. I just hope that whoever is the M/M option in ME3 isn't another case of "I'd rather be with a woman, but I guess you'll do"

While I agree, I still didn't find anything wrong with Zevran.  Sexuality does work that way in the real world as well.  Also, I have to disagree about Anders since, if you play MHawke, Anders is VERY obviously attracted more towards men (he even tells you about a liason with a male at the circle), which I know is a retcon of DAA, but i the continuity of DA2 he doesn't necessarily prefer women.

Yeah, I actually think it's pretty neat that the bisexual characters still have a preference for one sex over another, since just about every bisexual I know in real life has a preference for one over the other at least slightly.

[graciegrace]

jbblue05 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I'm not sure what's so bad about the DA2 s/s romances...I thought the f/f ones (Merrill/Isabela) were well done, at least...on par with others like Leliana, Liara, etc.

I think a lot of people didn't like the idea of Anders all of a sudden becoming gay.
In DAA he constanly flirted with female npc's and the female warden and all of a sudden he's a catcher

The big problem is that they wrote the LI's in DA2 as Hawkesexual instead of writing them as legitimate bisexuals.  They even came out and said that the LI's sexuality was entirely determined by the gender of the player.

[Clonedzero]

jlb524 wrote...

I'm not sure what's so bad about the DA2 s/s romances...I thought the f/f ones (Merrill/Isabela) were well done, at least...on par with others like Leliana, Liara, etc.

graciegrace wrote...

I just don't want them to pull what they did with DA2, where everyone was Hawkesexual.  I want legitimate homosexual or bisexual characters who are not just Shephardsexual.

What is a 'legitimate' homosexual/bisexual character?

For that matter, what's a 'legitimate' heterosexual one?

yuck, you're not pulling the "no ones sexuality is known unless they flat out state it" card are you?
cus thats the dumbest thing ever.

[graciegrace]

jlb524 wrote...

graciegrace wrote...

I just don't want them to pull what they did with DA2, where everyone was Hawkesexual.  I want legitimate homosexual or bisexual characters who are not just Shephardsexual.

What is a 'legitimate' homosexual/bisexual character?

For that matter, what's a 'legitimate' heterosexual one?

A 'legitimate' homosexual/bisexual/heterosexual character is a character who's sexuality is not determined by the gender of the player character.  It's a character who is gay, straight, bi, not a character who is because you happened to pick to play a certain gender.

[Fidget6]

graciegrace wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I'm not sure what's so bad about the DA2 s/s romances...I thought the f/f ones (Merrill/Isabela) were well done, at least...on par with others like Leliana, Liara, etc.

I think a lot of people didn't like the idea of Anders all of a sudden becoming gay.
In DAA he constanly flirted with female npc's and the female warden and all of a sudden he's a catcher

The big problem is that they wrote the LI's in DA2 as Hawkesexual instead of writing them as legitimate bisexuals.  They even came out and said that the LI's sexuality was entirely determined by the gender of the player.

Anders and Isabela seemed interested in both genders and that was incorporated into their characters. Fenris and Merrill just seemed to pull an "It's okay if it's you" with Hawke.

Modifié par Fidget6, 10 juin 2011 - 02:49 .

[Collider]

I wouldn't say that Isabela/Merrill/Fenris was Hawkesexual.
Isabela was interested in women in DA:O to begin with, Merrill is a new character with no prior sexual history, Fenris I don't know much about but he's also a new character.
Now, Anders may actually be "hawkesexual."

That said, I've only done the M/F Merrill romance so maybe there's something vital I'm missing here. Is there anything specific that Merrill/Fenris said that felt like the same sex romance was forced?

Modifié par Collider, 10 juin 2011 - 02:50 .

[Hathur]

Wait.. people are saying "Now that we've seen Vega" ... where / when was this? I'm outta the loop and freakin out here people! 

Modifié par Hathur, 10 juin 2011 - 02:50 .

[Fidget6]

graciegrace wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

graciegrace wrote...

I just don't want them to pull what they did with DA2, where everyone was Hawkesexual.  I want legitimate homosexual or bisexual characters who are not just Shephardsexual.

What is a 'legitimate' homosexual/bisexual character?

For that matter, what's a 'legitimate' heterosexual one?

A 'legitimate' homosexual/bisexual/heterosexual character is a character who's sexuality is not determined by the gender of the player character.  It's a character who is gay, straight, bi, not a character who is because you happened to pick to play a certain gender.

That's a good point too. Wasn't Anders only in a relationship with a male before if you played as a male? If you played as a female they were just supposed to be "good friends." That seems..... odd to me, to say the least.

[ipgd]

Collider wrote...

Well, it's not so much that there's something wrong with Zevran. There is nothing wrong with being bisexual but preferring one gender over the other, after all.
It's more being reminded that he likes women better when you're a male warden and trying to romance him. I think most people wouldn't like to think/know that they're second best and that their partner would rather be with another gender.

I don't remember Zevran ever explicitly indicating he likes women better.

I think I heard that Ander's writer said Ander's bisexuality has something to do with being possessed by Justice...which is pretty silly if true.

She never said anything like that.

graciegrace wrote...

They even came out and said that the LI's sexuality was entirely determined by the gender of the player.

No they didn't.

Fidget6 wrote...

That's a good point too. Wasn't Anders only in a relationship with a male before if you played as a male? If you played as a female they were just supposed to be "good friends." That seems..... odd to me, to say the least.

No. There is just a different conversation in the place of the one that reveals Anders was involved with Karl. It's never stated that he wasn't involved with Karl.

Modifié par ipgd, 10 juin 2011 - 02:51 .

[VaticanVice]

Here's hoping they do this well. I understand that the idea behind DAII's fiasco was equality, which is all well and good, and I can see how "subjective sexuality" seemed like a good idea in the development process, but it actually offended me more than the absence of same-sex options. Basically, it suggested to me that sexuality is not relevant to a person's character, and that's so, so wrong and also deeply wounding to me as a (proud) member of the LGBT community.

Of course, the fact that mShep can't be gay because he's too "iconic," but fShep sometimes likes girls (you see how it's different) is also immensely horrifying.

I dunno, I'll reserve judgment and not launch into a textwall about this. I just really hope they handle it well.



Edit: Ninja'd into a sexuality war.  That's what I get for walking away from the computer submitting to eat pizza.

Modifié par VaticanVice, 10 juin 2011 - 02:54 .

[jbblue05]

graciegrace wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I'm not sure what's so bad about the DA2 s/s romances...I thought the f/f ones (Merrill/Isabela) were well done, at least...on par with others like Leliana, Liara, etc.

I think a lot of people didn't like the idea of Anders all of a sudden becoming gay.
In DAA he constanly flirted with female npc's and the female warden and all of a sudden he's a catcher

The big problem is that they wrote the LI's in DA2 as Hawkesexual instead of writing them as legitimate bisexuals.  They even came out and said that the LI's sexuality was entirely determined by the gender of the player.

I read somewhere that Anders tells you he was involved  with Karl in a m/m rimance. Izzy was a given.being bi  Fenris is an elf and all male elfs are bi.  Merril has never been romantically involved before.
So Merril is the only hawke-sexual

[Fidget6]

Hathur wrote...

Wait.. people are saying "Now that we've seen Vega" ... where / when was this? I'm outta the loop and freakin out here people! 

Lol, Vega can be seen on the "Alternate Appearance Pack" part of the Collectors Edition page. Chris Priestly confirmed it was indeed him.

[graciegrace]

Collider wrote...

I wouldn't say that Isabela/Merrill/Fenris was Hawkesexual.
Isabela was interested in women in DA:O to begin with, Merrill is a new character with no prior sexual history, Fenris I don't know much about but he's also a new character.
Now, Anders may actually be "hawkesexual."

That said, I've only done the M/F Merrill romance so maybe there's something vital I'm missing here. Is there anything specific that Merrill/Fenris said that felt like the same sex romance was forced?

there was a quote from the developers or the writers that explained the sexuality of their characters working something like "A character is straight if you play their opposite gender, and gay if you play their same gender" or something along those lines.

[Fidget6]

ipgd wrote...

I don't remember Zevran ever explicitly indicating he likes women better.

Actually he does. You can ask him "What is it you fancy?" and he goes into detail, and says, "Do I prefer women? Yes." and goes on to talk about how he likes the curves of a female.