Can we have an enemy other than the Reapers, i'd rather fight pink bunnies! It's annoying how they are constantly force upon me. I was really happy that we were fighting someone else in ME2 only to find out that the Reapers were pulling their strings, too. Why do there have to be other important people/machines beside me at all. I'd rather decide everything myself!
- Miranda, you are now the Shadow Broker!
- But i don't want...
- Shut up and do as I tell you!
- Jack, go and study the Protheans, so I can finally shove Liara out of an airlock!
- Wtf, Shepard?
- I am your master and you have to obey me!
Can we give Liara a rest for ME3?
Débuté par
DPSSOC
, juin 10 2011 03:13
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#27
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 09:26
GuardianAngel470
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Wow, you guys are jerks. The OP is perfectly polite, articulate, and acknowledging of differing opinions and most of this thread insult him/her, are sarcastic, or just plain off topic.
@DPSSOC, I agree, Liara is largely the choice LI, most focused on character. As Ieldra pointed out, she is the only teammate that is mandatory in ME1, invulnerable to all damage in both games, and receiving of, potentially, the most plot critical role in the entire series (as we know it to be thus far).
I agree, ME1 Liara was not my favorite character and I agree, having a disliked character become so plot relevant can be unfortunate and, as you said, grating. It would be like having Udina or Councilor Valern (turian councilor) be central to the plot for three games, in at least one making it impossible to progress. That would not be fun for me.
That said, this appears to be the direction Bioware is heading and I seriously doubt any major changes to the plot will be conducted by them because of online complaints within the next 9 months. I seriously doubt that your request will be heeded so I think you'll just have to deal with it.
Sorry.
And to clarify, the prevailing theory if not certified fact is that LotSB will happen whether you have the DLC or not. So even if you choose not to play the DLC, Liara is still the SB.
@DPSSOC, I agree, Liara is largely the choice LI, most focused on character. As Ieldra pointed out, she is the only teammate that is mandatory in ME1, invulnerable to all damage in both games, and receiving of, potentially, the most plot critical role in the entire series (as we know it to be thus far).
I agree, ME1 Liara was not my favorite character and I agree, having a disliked character become so plot relevant can be unfortunate and, as you said, grating. It would be like having Udina or Councilor Valern (turian councilor) be central to the plot for three games, in at least one making it impossible to progress. That would not be fun for me.
That said, this appears to be the direction Bioware is heading and I seriously doubt any major changes to the plot will be conducted by them because of online complaints within the next 9 months. I seriously doubt that your request will be heeded so I think you'll just have to deal with it.
Sorry.
And to clarify, the prevailing theory if not certified fact is that LotSB will happen whether you have the DLC or not. So even if you choose not to play the DLC, Liara is still the SB.
#28
Guest_Fiddles_stix_*
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 09:49
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@OP - DO NOT WANT.
Liara was a great character in my opinion. She was able to speculate on the Reapers unlike everyone else in your squad. Her existence doesn't diminish the worth of the other characters but yes she is absolutely essential to the story probably the second most essential after Shepard. She's just better characterised than the others and has a larger arc. It's a shame you don't like her because at the end of the day...
Liara was a great character in my opinion. She was able to speculate on the Reapers unlike everyone else in your squad. Her existence doesn't diminish the worth of the other characters but yes she is absolutely essential to the story probably the second most essential after Shepard. She's just better characterised than the others and has a larger arc. It's a shame you don't like her because at the end of the day...
#30
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 10:33
sissysouthpaw
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If she's going to be a permanent squaddie in ME3, I hope it's done in a way that makes sense considering she's the friggin SB. Shouldn't she be Shadow Brokering away behind the scenes?
#31
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 10:40
GuardianAngel470
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Liisi wrote...
If she's going to be a permanent squaddie in ME3, I hope it's done in a way that makes sense considering she's the friggin SB. Shouldn't she be Shadow Brokering away behind the scenes?
I agree, but the fans of her don't. Like, you know, the ones posting here.
#32
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 10:42
Senior Cinco
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GuardianAngel470 wrote...
^see what I'm talking about?
Not really..That post had more of a solid statement, than the ranting misinformation that you posted. The post that starts out with name calling.
#33
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 10:47
78stonewobble
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I don't reaally believe all asari are "bisexuals" in any human sense. I assume they have different tastes like anyone else. 
#34
Guest_Fiddles_stix_*
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 10:55
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Yes I'll have to watch that pointing out the obvious that without a character you don't like Shepard's story would not have continuedGuardianAngel470 wrote...
^see what I'm talking about?
I've yet to hear a coherent thought about why Liara should not have a major role. All I've heard is that if she does it needs to be well written.
#35
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 11:03
Ahriman
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OP clearly stated that he doesn't like that Liara is more involved in plot than over teammates, sometime too much more. That's all. I don't understand why some people take it as personal insult.Fiddles_stix wrote...
I've yet to hear a coherent thought about why Liara should not have a major role. All I've heard is that if she does it needs to be well written.
#36
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 11:12
NICKjnp
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I agree with the OP. Some of the things about Liara are silly. Like how her personality does a 180 from ME 1 to ME2 or how she goes from being an archeologist to the SB in just two years....that is too much of a stretch.
#37
Guest_Fiddles_stix_*
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 11:15
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If you look at my first post you'll see I stated that one characters involvement in more plot than another doesn't diminish the other's worth. This goes for Liara too, if she has a much smaller part in ME3. My problem is attacking the character rather than the plot. How can Ashley, Kaidan, Tali or Garrus be Prothean experts? Without Liara you wouldn't be able to work out that the conduit is on Ilos. Also not liking something is not a coherent explanation for why it should not be in a game.Wizz wrote...
OP clearly stated that he doesn't like that Liara is more involved in plot than over teammates, sometime too much more. That's all. I don't understand why some people take it as personal insult.Fiddles_stix wrote...
I've yet to hear a coherent thought about why Liara should not have a major role. All I've heard is that if she does it needs to be well written.
A better way would have been to say that there are significant gaps for the VS going into ME3 and that that should be focused on. On that point I agree I want to see how and why the VS became a Spectre, I'd like to know what they've been up to without Shep.
#38
Guest_elektrego_*
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 11:17
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The whole Galaxy is under the Reaper's shadow now, no more behind the scenes. Liara still has all the qualities that make her a great SB, but the network is probably gone after the invasion. So you pack her aboard the Normandy, to have her close when you need to pick her vast knowledge. To leave her in some save place and communicate via some sort of QED is not really practical without galactic stability, you'd want to make sure the line of communication to one of your most valuable assets is as short as possible and get rid of any part that could break down.
Casey Hudson: "This is all-out galactic war!"
That means no one will be doing buisness as usual...
Like it or not, Liara has developed into one of the most knowledgeable persons regarding this conflict, to leave her out of the picture for the simple fact that you are not that fond of her would be________________________. (Please fill in the blank.)
Casey Hudson: "This is all-out galactic war!"
That means no one will be doing buisness as usual...
Like it or not, Liara has developed into one of the most knowledgeable persons regarding this conflict, to leave her out of the picture for the simple fact that you are not that fond of her would be________________________. (Please fill in the blank.)
#39
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 11:17
DPSSOC
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Bogsnot1 wrote...
Wrex, Garrus and Tali had no new insight, understanding or information to offer,
Wrex and/or Garrus lead you to Fist, who leads you to Tali, who has the evidence you need to nail Saren. I'm sorry exactly how do they not offer new, important, information? Also you may have missed it but I did say "yet" with regards to Liara. She does eventually offer new insight and info and if you pick her up later it's even immediate, but if you pick her up first she's got nothing useful to contribute.
Bogsnot1 wrote...
We get it, you dont like her. Some people dont like Tali, or Jack, or Miranda, just about everyone didnt like Jacob. Not even Jacob rallied enough hate for people to start a "No Jacob for ME3" thread.
Get over yourself. You're not that important.
When did I say I didn't want her in ME3? I specifically point out I'd never ask for her to be cut entirely. What I'm asking is that the game not revolve around her (like ME1 did), that she not dominate all mandatory conversation (debriefings), and that she not be presented as "the only hope" for completing the game.
Zan51 wrote...
C'mon, there's nothing wrong with Liara, she is, as others have said, the Shadow Broker now, the one person with miore information than TIM. If you don't want her help, don't take it, I sure will.
And if that's an option I'll be happy. The point is the trend is that it won't be an option. In ME1 Liara is the only way to understand the visions. In ME2 I couldn't recruit Thane until I talked to Liara, haven't tried yet but I'm guessing the same is true for Samara. She's also the only way for Shep to find out how Cerberus got his body, despite their being a more immediate source for that info available. Now she's back on the team (I think) which means we're back to ME1 where any scripted cutscenes (post mission dialogue) will probably be dominated by her again once she's on board, and she'll no doubt be the sole source for plot crucial information (LotSB sets this up as a certainty).
I don't mind her being on the team, I don't mind her being important, what I do mind is being forced to interact with her exclusively (and a great deal) in order to move forward in the plot. If they balance it out with other characters that'd be great, but in both games un-romanced Liara get's more dialogue (if totally exhausted) than most of the LI's, a lot more.
#40
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 11:27
Ahriman
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Her knowledge of protheans was used only once, and still she's one of main squadmates. BTW Shepard understands protheans more than Liara.Fiddles_stix wrote...
If you look at my first post you'll see I stated that one characters involvement in more plot than another doesn't diminish the other's worth. This goes for Liara too, if she has a much smaller part in ME3. My problem is attacking the character rather than the plot. How can Ashley, Kaidan, Tali or Garrus be Prothean experts? Without Liara you wouldn't be able to work out that the conduit is on Ilos. Also not liking something is not a coherent explanation for why it should not be in a game.
P.s. Stop this accusations about disliking, please. People complain about her role, not personality.
Modifié par Wizz, 10 juin 2011 - 11:29 .
#41
Guest_Fiddles_stix_*
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 11:46
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Where did I use the word dislike?Wizz wrote...
Her knowledge of protheans was used only once, and still she's one of main squadmates. BTW Shepard understands protheans more than Liara.
P.s. Stop this accusations about disliking, please. People complain about her role, not personality.
All I did was say the OP did not like her... there's all kinds of ambiguity in that.
I didn't say Shepard didn't understand the Protheans as well as Liara I pointed out that Liara is the only one who can work out that the conduit is on Ilos in time to do anything about the Saren and the Reapers.
If you have a point about why she should not have been used to further the plot I would love to hear it. If we're sticking to the point though of not making Liara essential it seems that will be difficult given she's the shadow broker. Again I'd love to hear a point about her role rather than the simplistic argument we seem to be having that I think she was an important character to the story and do not resent it while you seem to. I'm just puzzled is all.
Edit*
Okay I'm just guessing now but is the problem the lack of options? Is it that you can't do anything without Liara, is that the problem? If so, that's a narrative construction point and taking issue with characters is a silly way to go about it. Yes Liara is a deus ex machina, yes that is a lazy way to tell a story. Complain about the construction of the narrative rather than the characters they're just innocent bystanders. It's like complaining that Saren is a villain when you need an antagonist to drive the plot.
Modifié par Fiddles_stix, 10 juin 2011 - 11:58 .
#42
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:20
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Well, she wasn't exactly crucial in ME2, to be fair. They had to go and invent an entire subplot to give her screen time. Excessive, but hardly took center stage except for one mission.
#43
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:21
Ahriman
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Don't like, dislike... doesn't mater, you are changing theme from objective amount of Liara's involment to some personal tastes. It wouldn't be even slightly better if on her place was Garrus, Tali or whoever. I'm talking about problem of character dominating in general.Fiddles_stix wrote...
Where did I use the word dislike?
All I did was say the OP did not like her... there's all kinds of ambiguity in that.
I remembered about Shepard just to remind that Liara's role is pretty specific. Discover Ilos. Just like Tali's evidence or Ashley's/Kaidan's beacon contact. All unavoidable sqaudmates play their role, but Liara got more attention than any of them.I didn't say Shepard didn't understand the Protheans as well as Liara I pointed out that Liara is the only one who can work out that the conduit is on Ilos in time to do anything about the Saren and the Reapers.
Again it's not about Liara, it's about plot-driving role. Liara has it for whole trilogy, it's simply unfair to other characters. Liara isn't essential because she is Shadow Broker, she is Shadow Broker because she is essential. Do you get the difference?If you have a point about why she should not have been used to further the plot I would love to hear it. If we're sticking to the point though of not making Liara essential it seems that will be difficult given she's the shadow broker. Again I'd love to hear a point about her role rather than the simplistic argument we seem to be having that I think she was an important character to the story and do not resent it while you seem to. I'm just puzzled is all.
#44
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:26
Barquiel
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Garrus and Tali: squadmates in ME1 + ME2 + ME3
Ashley, Kaidan, Miranda and Jacob: mandatory squadmates...and they join in the beginning of ME1/ME2 (unlike Liara in ME1). They have more "forced" dialogue (every debriefing).
Jack and Mordin are also mandatory.
But the writers put Liara on a pedestal? sure...
Ashley, Kaidan, Miranda and Jacob: mandatory squadmates...and they join in the beginning of ME1/ME2 (unlike Liara in ME1). They have more "forced" dialogue (every debriefing).
Jack and Mordin are also mandatory.
But the writers put Liara on a pedestal? sure...
#45
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:32
Tyrannosaurus Rex
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Barquiel wrote...
Garrus and Tali: squadmates in ME1 + ME2 + ME3
.
Funny how people seem to forget that.
In ME1 we had to pick her up despite the reasoning being shakey at best
(IMO). That's ok though we didn't have any choice about Ash or Kaidan
either. Then once we've got her on the ship and (if gotten first)
proves she has no new insight, understanding, or information to offer
(yet) she joins the ground team.
Why is the reason behind finding her shaky? You are looking for the conduit, a prothean relic. She is a prothean expert and might posssible know something about theh bad guys due to being the daughter of one of them. If you think that is shaky. THen that is your failure.
Modifié par Lizardviking, 10 juin 2011 - 12:35 .
#46
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:33
Labrev
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Seboist wrote...
Collider wrote...
It would be very refreshing to see Liara taken off the pedestal they've put her on time and time again.
Liara herself generally doesn't offend me one iota, but the marketing is very, very annoying.
Liara is clearly a favorite of BW. She's literally the ONLY squadmate that has ZERO chance of dying in both ME1 and 2.I hope she has a chance of dying in the third one but I'm not holding my breath....
x2. Even the way they described her in the comic: "Liara, who like all asari, was as smart as she was beautiful."
#47
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:46
Menycet
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Wishing for a character to die just because you don't like them is so mature. <_<
#48
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:48
Barquiel
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Seboist wrote...
Collider wrote...
It would be very refreshing to see Liara taken off the pedestal they've put her on time and time again.
Liara herself generally doesn't offend me one iota, but the marketing is very, very annoying.
Liara is clearly a favorite of BW. She's literally the ONLY squadmate that has ZERO chance of dying in both ME1 and 2.I hope she has a chance of dying in the third one but I'm not holding my breath....
Liara can't die because BW sidelined her in ME2.
#1) a Dark Horse comic/temporary squadmate in ME3
#2) permanent squadmate status in ME3
Maybe I'm wrong but I think most Miranda/Jack/Thane fans would prefer #2...even if their favorite characters are not directly relevant to the plot.
#49
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:48
Collider
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That's definitely going too far.x2. Even the way they described her in the comic: "Liara, who like all asari, was as smart as she was beautiful."
I hope they get rid of the Liara favoritism. And the asari favoritism.
There are and will be plenty of Liara fans without having to market her so blatantly.
#50
Posté 10 juin 2011 - 12:50
Mr.House
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I'm sure you will be able to let Liara die you cold hearted people.
