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Can we give Liara a rest for ME3?


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#76
Sylvianus

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Collider wrote...

x2. Even the way they described her in the comic: "Liara, who like all asari, was as smart as she was beautiful."

That's definitely going too far.
I hope they get rid of the Liara favoritism. And the asari favoritism.
There are and will be plenty of Liara fans without having to market her so blatantly.

Well, for me it is simply a way to simplify her character to a new player who never played Mass effect and don't know anything about it. Personally I do not feel offended by this sentence.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 juin 2011 - 07:20 .


#77
Asari_Party

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Neria Rose wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Nah, it's about psychopathy/sociopathy.  In real life, you have to deal with people who irritate you.  If your response to this is, "It's not real life, it's a game," you're not role-playing, you're meta-gaming, in which case no one has to respect your opinion on the matter.


You also have the option to tell said people in real life to stuff a sock in it and buzz off. Wanting to get rid of a fictional character you don't like doesn't make you a sociopath. Nor does having your Shepard want to get rid of the one being he/she greatly dislikes make him/her a sociopath.


It just makes Shepard look like an idiot and an incompetent leader.

#78
graciegrace

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Neria Rose wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Nah, it's about psychopathy/sociopathy.  In real life, you have to deal with people who irritate you.  If your response to this is, "It's not real life, it's a game," you're not role-playing, you're meta-gaming, in which case no one has to respect your opinion on the matter.


You also have the option to tell said people in real life to stuff a sock in it and buzz off. Wanting to get rid of a fictional character you don't like doesn't make you a sociopath. Nor does having your Shepard want to get rid of the one being he/she greatly dislikes make him/her a sociopath.


If you want to get rid of her by, from your own words, "stuffing her in a box and shooting her out the airlock", then it's sociopathic :l

#79
Neria Rose

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graciegrace wrote...

If you want to get rid of her by, from your own words, "stuffing her in a box and shooting her out the airlock", then it's sociopathic :l


Definition of sociopathic: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sociopathic

My Shepards get along great with every other squadmate in ME1 and ME2 (indifferent to Miranda) except Liara. Please explain to me how that is antisocial.

Modifié par Neria Rose, 10 juin 2011 - 09:57 .


#80
Dean_the_Young

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I neither like Liara, nor particularly respect her. She's pretty much a typical example of a Mary Sue race between her change from ME1 to ME2, and that's really not for me. Had I had the choice, I would have turned the Shadow Broker network over to Cerberus (or the Alliance, or the Council) before leaving her to handle it for a few years.

#81
Kabanya101

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Bogsnot1 wrote...

Wrex, Garrus and Tali had no new insight, understanding or information to offer, yet they also joined the ground team. At least Liara had an understanding of the Protheans, which, you know, turned out to be fairly important to your mission. Garrus, Tali, and Wrex had nothing to offer your mission once they were on board. Tali couldnt even give you any decent nisight into the Geth the same way Liara did with the Protheans.

We get it, you dont like her. Some people dont like Tali, or Jack, or Miranda, just about everyone didnt like Jacob. Not even Jacob rallied enough hate for people to start a "No Jacob for ME3" thread.
Get over yourself. You're not that important.


Jacob was a good character aside from the ones that returned to ME2, and Samara and Grunt. And besides, Jacob is the Token Black Guy, you need at least one black person on the Normandy, especially if he knows how to keep it real.

Jacob was an honest man and a good soldier. He was a great character to have your back, the only down side was, his powers blew ass. They made a kitten look fearsome.

#82
graciegrace

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Neria Rose wrote...

graciegrace wrote...

If you want to get rid of her by, from your own words, "stuffing her in a box and shooting her out the airlock", then it's sociopathic :l


Definition of sociopathic: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sociopathic

My Shepards get along great with every other squadmate in ME1 and ME2 (indifferent to Miranda) except Liara. Please explain to me how that is antisocial.


Psychopathic then.

If you don't like her, don't talk to her and be mean to her.

#83
DPSSOC

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Fiddles_stix wrote...

Posted Image


Not entirely sure how I missed this before.  I like it.

Barquiel wrote...
Ashley, Kaidan, Miranda and Jacob: mandatory squadmates...and they join in the beginning of ME1/ME2 (unlike Liara in ME1). They have more "forced" dialogue (every debriefing).


No, no they don't.  Call me obsessive but I've counted, and while I haven't completed all possibilities to get a full sample out of Ash, Kaidan, Garrus (1&2), Tali(1&2), Miranda, and Jack only two of them get more dialogue (conversation topics I should say not actual lines that's my next project) in their respective games; Kaidan and Miranda.  They are so far the only two that get more dialogue though I suspect Jacob might clear the mark as well.  In ME1 it's easy to understand; Liara, Tali, Garrus, and Wrex are all exposition machines on their races which gives them a lot to talk about.  Add to that Liara's dominating of debriefings (giving one human squadmate 2 or 3 lines max per) and she quickly gains ground.  The only reason Kaidan stays ahead, and only just, is because The Normandy, Eden Prime, and the Citadel give him a hell of a head start as well as being an exposition machine on human biotics.  Same with Miranda in ME2; Lazarus, Cerberus exposition, Jack debriefing, and Jack conflict give her the boost she needs on top of actual conversations to clear Liara.

Lizardviking wrote...

In ME1 we had to pick her up despite the reasoning being shakey at best (IMO).  That's ok though we didn't have any choice about Ash or Kaidan either.  Then once we've got her on the ship and (if gotten first) proves she has no new insight, understanding, or information to offer (yet) she joins the ground team.


Why is the reason behind finding her shaky? You are looking for the conduit, a prothean relic.


No we're looking for Saren, a Turian fugitive.  Exactly how many missions do we have dedicated to finding information about the Conduit?  None.  We have an investigation of possible Geth sightings on Noveria (believe that's how it's sold to us by Anderson), possible Geth attack on Feros, investigating an STG distress call from a team dedicated to finding info on Saren, and finding the daughter of one of the bad guys.

I consider it shakey because all the other missions have a direct link to Saren and then we get this one indirect link thrown in with no real explanation of what we hope to gain.  We're told go find her; for what?  Are we going to see what she knows, hold her hostage, what do we hope to gain from this considering we don't even know precisely where she is.  Were we given a precise location and objective (Intel says she was organizing a dig headed to Therum, see if she knows anything) it would have been easier to accept but as it stands we get (She's somewhere around here, find her she might be useful somehow maybe).

To clarify I accept that Liara's presence being important in the game is inevitable, I'm ok with that.  My problem is that in both games thus far Liara has been the important character.  Shepard is the most important character because he/she is the PC followed closely by Liara.  Even in ME2 where she isn't even around for that long she's just behind Shepard because without her Lazarus wouldn't have been possible.  All I'm asking is that we give Liara a break and at least let someone share that number 2 spot.  Let a different character be crucial to the plot every now and again.  Liara can still be important just don't make her the only important NPC again.

ME1 started off great; Anderson leads you to Garrus/Wrex, they lead you to Fist, Fist leads you to Tali, Tali helps you nail Saren.  Lots of characters all crucial to the plot.  Then you head off the Citadel and it's all Liara.  If you pick her up first she dominates the briefings, and if you don't the debriefings all end, without fail, with someone suggesting you go after Liara.  All those characters that got you to Spectre status are now useless, the only one who can move the plot along is Liara.

I just don't want to see that happen again.  By all means let there be plot crucial info that only Liara has, it makes sense given her position as SB, but let other people offer some too.  Let Wrex forward you some info to follow, let Anderson warn you about a system about to fall.  That's all I'm asking; that Bioware let us get our plot moving info from somewhere other than Liara from time to time.  Make her the main source if you like just not the only source.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 10 juin 2011 - 11:23 .


#84
Golden Owl

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Neria Rose wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Nah, it's about psychopathy/sociopathy.  In real life, you have to deal with people who irritate you.  If your response to this is, "It's not real life, it's a game," you're not role-playing, you're meta-gaming, in which case no one has to respect your opinion on the matter.


You also have the option to tell said people in real life to stuff a sock in it and buzz off. Wanting to get rid of a fictional character you don't like doesn't make you a sociopath. Nor does having your Shepard want to get rid of the one being he/she greatly dislikes make him/her a sociopath.


Though deliberately making sure they are killed off makes Shep a sociopath or psychopath (semantics...I can't be stuffed pulling out the dicitonary) ....Thats extreme.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 11 juin 2011 - 12:43 .


#85
Neria Rose

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graciegrace wrote...

Neria Rose wrote...

graciegrace wrote...

If you want to get rid of her by, from your own words, "stuffing her in a box and shooting her out the airlock", then it's sociopathic :l


Definition of sociopathic: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sociopathic.

My Shepards get along great with every other squadmate in ME1 and ME2 (indifferent to Miranda) except Liara. Please explain to me how that is antisocial.


Psychopathic then.

If you don't like her, don't talk to her and be mean to her.


Nope: www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/psychopathy. My Shepards are very much attached to their crews and LIs, just not to Liara (nor Miranda).

I do avoid talking to her whenever possible and am mean to her when the option is available and I'm required to speak to her. For the most part, I am content that I can do her recruitment mission practically at the end of ME1, can mostly not interact with her in ME2, and that LotSB is optional.

At any rate, I'm merely commenting on what I hope Bioware will do in ME3. Regardless of whatever decisions they ultimately come to, I'd still buy and play ME3 (even if they were to, say, make Garrus up and disappear without an explanation). It is just a game, after all, I don't lose sleep wishing Liara were killable.

Modifié par Neria Rose, 11 juin 2011 - 12:49 .


#86
Zan51

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Because the game is "organic" in that it evolves as you make your choices playing it, Shep cannot be the absolute main character. I'm a published SF and Fantasy writer myself, and it is impossible for your main character to have every piece of information needed to move the story along. He/she needs to acquire other knowledge from other places and people.

Why Liara? You need an expert on the Protheans, one who can understand the images left in Shep from the beacon, one who has seen archelogical remains on many planets and begin to piece together a "history" of them.

Look at the aliens in the ME Universe, those who have time, intelligence, and the drive to find out about the Prothean history by visiting sites and digging them up, literally. Digging up a 50,000 year old dead culture, which is similar to finding out about Neanderthals for us.

Krogan? Long lived, but Er, no, they are so military focussed that even Mordin laughs at the idea of a Krogan scientist.

Salarians. Too short lived. 40 years

Quarians. Too focussed on their migrant fleet life and getting the homeland back or defeating the geth. No life span given but assumed equates with Human normal of about 70-80.

Hanar. Too bound up in the religion of the "Enkindlers" aka Protheans... plus they are jelly fish and digging on dry rins is not something I seem them doing.

Drell. Nopes as they work for the Hanar, and their speciality seems to be assassins, and though they lke hot and dry, I can't see them being personally motivated. Plus they are bound to the Hanar race planet and the people and work for them for saving their lives when Drell world dlied.

Elcor. Just no - too big and lumbering to do the work required, plus they seem to be very conservative, so why would they want to find out about a 50k ancient race?.

Volus. Traders, and remind me of the Ferengi! No idea how long they live.

Humans. Nope. Why on earth would they have the interest in a race that old when there is nothing to draw them to it? Plus lack of resources etc to set out being an Archeologist in the universe.

That leaves the Asari.
Long lived? Check
Curious about everything? Check
Interested in lost causes? Check - some are.
Liara is a rebel and socially immature - Archeology is a retreat from all society and I think a rebellion against her mother too.
So she has the time and youth to indulge in this research. She has the motivation - avoiding society and people. They also all seem to be naturally good fighters - many times we hear how they spend their youth as mercs, so her change to a competent soldier is not as startling as some folk have suggested. She has the racial instincts like reflexes and reaction times, plus the biotics to be a good fighter pretty damned fast.

That comes down to the Asari who do live long, who are known for having
misspent youths trying everything going before they settle down in the
Matriarchal phase.

Ergo I submit that Liara is the ONLY person in the game, of any race, fully qualified to play the part she has done and give or interpret the information Shep gets from the beacon to lead him/her to Ilos!

Like her or not, she has to be there for plot reasons, and us nit-picking the story the way we would not do if all 3 games were out without a break in making them, or were a series of novels we read that had been printed concurrently, we wouldn't see a problem. It is only the gap between games and the need to pull everything apart that is highlighting what are not actual flaws in the story arc.

Modifié par Zan51, 11 juin 2011 - 12:51 .