106 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

@bushes289 - don't give me world facts about children dying! That's sick and wrong... I prefer to believe that children never die!

Yeah - I'm being a condescending ******, but this is a seriously naive argument against what could be a compelling part of the story.

[bushes289]

@Medhia Nox - You'll have to elaborate on that one, I fail to see how my 'argument' if it can even be called that (it's more of "you people are acting like 5 year olds" thing than an argument) is naive.

I also fail to see how it isn't a compelling part of the story.

edit: looking back I'm worried if I got the gist of your post wrong, were you calling my argument naive or the other people's arguments? This is why I almost never post, I always misundestand peoples intentions. I say something sarcastic and it's like everyones sarcasm detectors got turned off.

edit #2: Including mine apparently

Modifié par bushes289, 12 juin 2011 - 03:14 .

[Medhia Nox]

You misunderstood - I was being sarcastic (I should have added that). I agree with you completely... the notion that children somehow don't die every day is very naive. The notion that it should just be ignored... dangerous.

And I said it would be compelling... it could be an excellent scene. Like I wrote earlier... I'm fighting the Reapers for that kid. He's the face of the resistance for my Shepard (or, he will be).

"You can't save me..." he says. Well, maybe not little guy, but I'm gonna rip every last Reaper apart to make sure more virtual children don't die.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 12 juin 2011 - 03:06 .

[mcsupersport]

Daddy Bags wrote...

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...

I think it might have been in the Fall of Earth trailer.

I just saw it. It showed two adults rushing into that drop ship. It wasn't the kid.

Extended trailer is susposed to show the kid getting into the ship.  Also in the fall of earth video, check the background of the shuttle landing area, and see the/a kid running toward the shuttles before it cuts away.

[Platform626]

So what? It's just a kid! That adds to the atmosphere of the game. Did you all honestly think that the future was made up of nothing but adults and adolescents? There are worse things than dead children. Now if it was a dog....then I would be pissed.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Medhia Nox wrote...
Uh oh... a hard ass has entered the conversation.

Hard ass Shepard don't care 'bout nobody!

Damn straight! Billions on the planet are going to die. Shepard has a war to win.

[Medhia Nox]

Go get 'em hardass Shepard!

====

Mine's going to cry and feel emotional... but think of the DRAMA!

[bushes289]

Platform626 wrote...

So what? It's just a kid! That adds to the atmosphere of the game. Did you all honestly think that the future was made up of nothing but adults and adolescents? There are worse things than dead children. Now if it was a dog....then I would be pissed.

Agreed, you see a human die in media, no one in my family bats an eyelash, but when an animal dies my entire family goes NOOOO! Not the animal! When it's a child my mother will often turn the television off.

It's also why bioware doesn't have much choice but to show a child dying, adults die so often in media, that most of us have dissociated ourselves from it (hell in mass effect most of the time we're the ones doing the killing). Children and animals haven't been used as much so they effect us more, it's also why I believe that the media shouldn't ignore the death of children completely, but also use it sparingly unless we become just as unneffected by it as we are when an adult dies.

Bioware wants us to care about earth, wants us to care about the galaxy, and showing us a bunch of adults dying just isn't going to impact a lot of people because we've seen it so much already.

[Medhia Nox]

Unless those adults are the "LI" - then it's nerdrage central.

I bet even Hardass Shepard (eyeballs ReconTeam) would be angry if his LI died. (Though if he were really THAT tough - he'd be like my Shepard and not even have an LI)

[mcsupersport]

bushes289 wrote...

Platform626 wrote...

So what? It's just a kid! That adds to the atmosphere of the game. Did you all honestly think that the future was made up of nothing but adults and adolescents? There are worse things than dead children. Now if it was a dog....then I would be pissed.

Agreed, you see a human die in media, no one in my family bats an eyelash, but when an animal dies my entire family goes NOOOO! Not the animal! When it's a child my mother will often turn the television off.

It's also why bioware doesn't have much choice but to show a child dying, adults die so often in media, that most of us have dissociated ourselves from it (hell in mass effect most of the time we're the ones doing the killing). Children and animals haven't been used as much so they effect us more, it's also why I believe that the media shouldn't ignore the death of children completely, but also use it sparingly unless we become just as unneffected by it as we are when an adult dies.

Bioware wants us to care about earth, wants us to care about the galaxy, and showing us a bunch of adults dying just isn't going to impact a lot of people because we've seen it so much already.

I would actually prefer to never have children die in movies and games, simply so there is NEVER the risk of becoming desensitised to it.  It is bad enough that you can show a man blowing the brains out of a woman, but lord have mercy if a woman shows a ******.  Most of our cultures are screwed up big time, when it is wrong to show a human body but it is ok to show murder.

I know children die everyday, but I really don't want to see it used for "effect" or "punch" in media, because eventually it will get to the point movies are at now with adults, you have to go so far to even get a rise.

[bushes289]

@Medhia Nox

I think any companion, L1 or not would initiate nerdrage, I was talking about random humans running around on earth dying in droves, not actual characters that we know. I think seeing any of the companions die would ****** me off more than seeing the child die (well, except for Jacob of course /sarcasm)

[bushes289]

mcsupersport wrote...



I would actually prefer to never have children die in movies and games, simply so there is NEVER the risk of becoming desensitised to it.  It is bad enough that you can show a man blowing the brains out of a woman, but lord have mercy if a woman shows a ******.  Most of our cultures are screwed up big time, when it is wrong to show a human body but it is ok to show murder.

I know children die everyday, but I really don't want to see it used for "effect" or "punch" in media, because eventually it will get to the point movies are at now with adults, you have to go so far to even get a rise.

You misunderstand, bioware isn't using it as a cheap BAM moment, the're using it to motivate you, to make you care, which is arguably how all death in media should be handled. It's not the actual death that causes us to become desensitized, it's the way the death is presented.

Modifié par bushes289, 12 juin 2011 - 03:35 .

[J. Finley]

I'd kill a human before touching a dog.

Modifié par Jayman1337, 12 juin 2011 - 03:35 .

[Medhia Nox]

@bushes289 - so long as it's done well, I'm willing to have a scripted death or 2. This is a galaxy spanning war where billions are dying. Not losing a friend seems the same as not having children die to me.

@mcsupersport - you shouldn't be desensitized about adults either. Apathy is a choice.

====

These games are designed where I'll slaughter hundreds of virtual "bad guys" - to play adventure games you just can't get around that, but at least when it's time to actually RP - I try to make every life matter.

The game doesn't provide you with an option to solve problems without killing virtual "bad guys" - so when it comes to story, I tend to actually ignore those mass slaughters.

That's why I end up choosing paragon for most options - because life isn't cheap to me. Even if it's adult life.

[Warkupo]

They've mentioned that ME3 is going to be much darker than the previous two titles. That they are okay with spoiling something like this, which is dramatic and soul crushing, should give you some idea of what sort of dark hell Bioware plans to drag you through with ME3.

[JetsoverEverything]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Unless those adults are the "LI" - then it's nerdrage central.

I bet even Hardass Shepard (eyeballs ReconTeam) would be angry if his LI died. (Though if he were really THAT tough - he'd be like my Shepard and not even have an LI)

im seriously about to start a new renegade shepard and name him that LOL

[HogarthHughes 3]

It would be great if there are some mandatory sacrifices along the way. Another "Suicide Mission" to save the galaxy at no cost other than nameless NPCs would not have much of an emotional impact. I love stuff like the Virmire choice, or hell the ending of Overlord almost moved me to tears. Not to say that ME3 wouldn't be fun without some noticeable sacrifices, but the story wouldn't be nearly as compelling for me.

I can't remember where this came from, but anyways: "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic."

It would be better for the story if victory came at a personal cost to Shepard. That is, assuming Shepard ever got even remotely emotionally attached to anyone during the first two games. I suppose Bioware kind of forces that though, for example Shepard auto-hugs Liara and Garrus is a buddy regardless of how we treat them (well I suppose Garrus can die).

This is obviously all just my opinion, not pretending I'm stating facts.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 12 juin 2011 - 03:56 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

You can actually see the kid running towards one of the blue shuttles in the start of the "Fall of Earth" trailer. He's off to the very right, just before the screen cuts to black and shows the one shuttle being lasered in half by the reaper.

So, yeah. We've been watching the kid's death the whole time. Just never knew it until we knew to look for the kid getting onto a shuttle.

[Fleetleader101]

lots of kids are going to die. Just saying.

[Funkcase]

Xerxes52 wrote...

Husk children?

The moral guardians would have mass aneurysms!

I wouldn't put it past EA to allow that, have you played Dead space 2? Where you have to kill alien kids and babys, I felt so wrong fighting them.

[Bad King]

The kid was a figment of Shepard's imagination- Shepard is ***SPOILER ALERT*** indoctrinated.

Note how he mysteriously vanishes after Shepard briefly looks away.

Modifié par Bad King, 12 juin 2011 - 12:22 .

[Machazareel]

InviolateNK wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

This is exactly the kind of tragedy I was hoping for in ME3... Rather than simply knowing the galaxy is falling apart, moments like these make you feel it is falling apart. This is a good thing, in my view. It makes me feel more emotionally connected to the story - and if the rest of the game continues to be this good, then this means I might actually experience some emotional impact once the game is over, which is something I've only really experienced from a few films/books. If ME3 can do that for me, then it'll be pretty groundbreaking for a game.

No. Dead children is a wrong thing.

Clearly you've never had any sitting behind you on an 8 hour flight.

[Nerdage]

<< Person not understanding the issue.. Or, his forum avatar anyway.

Can't say I understand why killing adults is not only fair game, but most of the actual gameplay itself, but a child dying in a cutscene is apparently so abhorrent. At what age exactly is it okay to kill someone? The writer of the ign article linked on the first page said it got to them because they have a child, but when that child grows up does it then become wrong to kill adults in games? Or does it become less offensive to kill their child once they've grown up? Life's life, I don't see how someone can be fine with death in one instance (by which I mean hundreds, because how many adults have we killed in ME so far?), and so squeamish in another.

That said, it sounds like a bad scene for the sake of shock value to me. Unless a character's important to me as the player or to my character -- which I'm willing to buy into for the sake of roleplaying -- I find it hard to care about what happens to them unless I have a part in it. So if there were a 'save the child from husks' scene I might care, but a character neither I nor my character know, dying in circumstances unrelated to me, I don't really care.