103 réponses à ce sujet

[habitat 67]

I'd like to get a better ignore feature. One that blocks my ability to read certain habitual whiner's posts.

[Gravbh]

You can't really complain about the response you're getting to this thread OP. If you've spent any time here at all you had to expect it.

To be fair, the OP does have at least a bit of a point when you see threads complaining about the portraits at the bottom of the screen during gameplay.

[MrCairo]

Think i might play the game before i complain about it. (if i need to.)

[Whatever42]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

There's an interesting theory about whiners. They actually have to dream up valid arguments to get the discussion going. The defenders don't need such intelligence. All they need to do is troll the discussions. You are a fine example of that.

Like you're trolling me?

Nonsense. Whiners don't usually offer valid arguments. OMG the omni-blade TOTALLY violates lore. Not really a valid, defendable argument and it's been easily refuted but they will spaz about it for months.

I am not trolling you. I merely make an observation about your behaviour here.

You've read through my past posts and can comment on my behaviour here? Have you read my criticisms and my participation in debates about other criticisms? Or are you affronted by my belief that I think there is a difference between whining and constructive criticism?

Sorry, but there is a difference between much of the knee-jerk whining that occurs on this forum and honest constructive feedback. The honest constructive feedback does require valid argument. Most of the nitpick whining does not, and recycles arguments made hundreds of times. 

I agree that making a thread about whining is pointless, however. 

[Il Divo]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am not trolling you. I merely make an observation about your behaviour here.

And perhaps he is simply making an observation about your behavior?

What separates a "whiner" from a concerned fan is the manner of their criticism. Both might dislike the implementation of the Omniblade. The concerned fan will keep his argument narrow, saying "I disliked the omniblade for x,y, or z reasons". A whiner might do the same (or not even) but their posts are also full of needless hyperbole: "Bioware has betrayed the core fans, no more values, COD in space, etc". Mass hysteria over a video game is not the right way to make yourself heard.

[Phaedon]

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

Hey gaise, you know whats funny?

People are whining about this thread, on this thread.

That's not irony.

That's the usual whiners posting here.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Il Divo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am not trolling you. I merely make an observation about your behaviour here.

And perhaps he is simply making an observation about your behavior?

What separates a "whiner" from a concerned fan is the manner of their criticism. Both might dislike the implementation of the Omniblade. The concerned fan will keep his argument narrow, saying "I disliked the omniblade for x,y, or z reasons". A whiner might do the same (or not even) but their posts are also full of needless hyperbole: "Bioware has betrayed the core fans, no more values, COD in space, etc". Mass hysteria over a video game is not the right way to make yourself heard.

Of course I agree with you. There is indeed something like the concerned fan. They certainly do not whine, but get treated as such anyway. Especially by the group of defenders I mentioned earlier.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 10 juin 2011 - 01:05 .

[Phaedon]

Il Divo wrote...
And perhaps he is simply making an observation about your behavior?

What separates a "whiner" from a concerned fan is the manner of their criticism. Both might dislike the implementation of the Omniblade. The concerned fan will keep his argument narrow, saying "I disliked the omniblade for x,y, or z reasons". A whiner might do the same (or not even) but their posts are also full of needless hyperbole: "Bioware has betrayed the core fans, no more values, COD in space, etc". Mass hysteria over a video game is not the right way to make yourself heard.

I only agree mostly with this post.

A whiner is by definition negative, as it implies that a person "cries" about something. Most don't both using logic. Because they like whining/melodrama. 

However, it's as if your post accepts as whiners only the people using hyperboles. In reality, a post like "Meh, this sucks" or "Meh, totally ripped from Halo" is whining as well. To express one's disapproval by providing reasons is very valid, but whiners can also come up with arguments that are terrible most of the time.

It's the motive of disapproval that defines someone as a whiner or a concerned fan most of the time. I have seen paragraph-long posts that state reasons, which end up having a horrible logical basis if you bother reading them twice, but the posters are still "whining".

In conclusion, it's not always easy to seperate a person who just has a pessimist attitude that starts to come up with reasons to satisfy their own love of melodrama, than a concerned fan who finds the reasons first, and expresses his feelings about it later.

Modifié par Phaedon, 10 juin 2011 - 01:08 .

[Roenik]

Right.  Everyone has a right to criticize, but how you do it speaks a lot about your character.

I don't approve of Liara's lip color in the demo, for example.  I tweeted Casey about it, made a mention of it, and referred to LotSB as what I'd like to see on that matter.

That is all.

Doesn't that give you a warm sense of collectivism?  

Phaedon wrote...

Il Divo wrote...
And perhaps he is simply making an observation about your behavior?

What separates a "whiner" from a concerned fan is the manner of their criticism. Both might dislike the implementation of the Omniblade. The concerned fan will keep his argument narrow, saying "I disliked the omniblade for x,y, or z reasons". A whiner might do the same (or not even) but their posts are also full of needless hyperbole: "Bioware has betrayed the core fans, no more values, COD in space, etc". Mass hysteria over a video game is not the right way to make yourself heard.

I only agree mostly with this post.

A whiner is by definition negative, as it implies that a person "cries" about something. Most don't both using logic. Because they like whining/melodrama. 

However, it's as if your post accepts as whiners only the people using hyperboles. In reality, a post like "Meh, this sucks" or "Meh, totally ripped from Halo" is whining as well. To express one's disapproval by providing reasons is very valid, but whiners can also come up with arguments that are terrible most of the time.

It's the motive of disapproval that defines someone as a whiner or a concerned fan most of the time. I have seen paragraph-long posts that state reasons, which end up having a horrible logical basis if you bother reading them twice, but the posters are still "whining".

In conclusion, it's not always easy to seperate a person who just has a pessimist attitude that starts to come up with reasons to satisfy their own love of melodrama, than a concerned fan who finds the reasons first, and expresses his feelings about it later.

[Cyberfrog81]

Roenik wrote...

Right.  Everyone has a right to criticize, but how you do it speaks a lot about your character.

I don't approve of Liara's lip color in the demo, for example.  I tweeted Casey about it, made a mention of it, and referred to LotSB as what I'd like to see on that matter.

Right. And yet people seem to wonder why BioWare doesn't seem to take their fans very seriously...

[ADelusiveMan]

DonDaMon wrote...

• hi ive been a member of these forums for quite a while, i only post vary rarely but im always reading what you guys post, but one thing that seems to set me off is when people go out of their way to whine about something insignificant ..i just want to slap the taste out of their mouths or tell them to shut the hell up.!

Interestingly enough, the fact that you made this post makes you a whiner. Congratulations. You want to b!t*chslap yourself.

[Teknor]

ADelusiveMan wrote...

Interestingly enough, the fact that you made this post makes you a whiner. Congratulations. You want to b!t*chslap yourself.

Resorting this circular argument is pathetic.

[bigSarg]

There is a difference between whining and constructive criticism, when a person points out a flaw or something they would like to see changed and provides realistic reasons and solutions, that is acceptable, but when someone just says "I don't like this and it should be changed because I said so" , thats just immature whining and should be ignored.  Another thing that keeps me from really getting involved in these forums is all the little kids bashing other players for their opinions and they feel that every game should be designed to suit them and their particular gameplay style, they contribute nothing of any significance or value to the gaming community and only try to provoke an arguement.   For once I'd like to have or at least see a mature debate on any forum, but usually all you see is name-calling and BS posts.

Modifié par bigSarg, 10 juin 2011 - 02:47 .

[aftohsix]

Just wait for March 6th.... That's the day I officially take my leave of these forums.

[Jenova65]

One man's *whine* is another man's cheese....................
Or to put it another way one man's meat is another man's poison.
You think it is whining if you disagree and think it is a well thought out argument if you agree, see?
It wouldn't do for us all to be alike...

[chibievil]

well they shouldn't moan about something that isn't released, but if they do hate it that bad, when the game is released they don't need to use it, they say hold down the B/ Circle button to use it, but if it continually press the button u use the original melee attack. The omniblade is basically the blade u get in halo reach. But i don't mind it i think its an awesome thing to add in the game as its a futuristic game in space and whatnot. but things can change before its released. So i wouldn't complain until closer to the date of the game release date.

[Metalunatic]

ladyvader wrote...

I think people whining about a game that is nine months from hitting the shelves is silly.

Its a fair point, but if people start voicing their concerns a few months before release there is small chance their issue within the game will change for the better.

[aftohsix]

I think OP's intent was to express his exasperation at reading one too many posts which "demand realism" from Bioware or else the game will suck and they'll rate it a 0 on metacritic when it comes out and then come in here and post about how they rated it a 0 so obviously it sucks.

And yes. The game we're demanding realism in is a SCIENCE FICTION game with GIANT SENTIENT ROBOTS and ALIENS WITH PLEASANT AMERICAN ACCENTS.

Also Shepard doesn't poop.

I disagree with OP's method but come on... Some of you guys have to know you're ridiculous right?

Modifié par aftohsix, 10 juin 2011 - 02:54 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

dcrypt wrote...

Jayman1337 wrote...

I don't mind anyone complaining about anything they don't like, there's always going to be something about the game someone won't find appealing. As long as they give a valid reason for why they think something's bad, I don't see the harm in bringing it up.

Yeah this would be fine, but it's almost never the case with most of the people on this board. It's always a bunch of doomsayers yelling and screaming at bioware for selling out

"OMG BIOWARE MADE THE SHOOTING PART GOOD THAT MEANS THE RPG IS BAD WAHWAHWAH CATERING TO 12 YEAR OLD SHOOTER TARDS WAH"

Something along those lines

Quoted for truth.

I don't have a problem with people giving polite constructive criticism, in fact I think it's vital to any video game company (or movie studio, TV network, comic book publisher, etc) to get input on what their fans liked and disliked in their products, so they can make them better. But when it's just pointless crap like "Bioware sold out and they are catering to the stupid CoD crowd" then nothing is gained and divides the fanbase and creates bad blood among posters.  

Now obviously Bioware can't please everybody on these forums (there is an old saying: you can please some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time) but offering up suggestions and polite constructive criticism is not whining it is IMHO helping.    


Now one of the reasons why I don't post a lot here is due to the the constant pointless destructive whiners that offer nothing substantial to a debate or try to help Bioware make great games, and in dealing with these whiners puts me in a bad mood in my offline life and I don't like being in a constant bad mood.  

[DonDaMon]

i think i upset the whiners with this thread, at least the level headed people see my point.

[onelifecrisis]

Almost 100 posts. Go go BSN! The internet is proud of you!

[Nivilant]

Belial10 wrote...

I skimmed through the first post, saw the pictures, and I'm quite confident I didn't miss a damn thing.

*snerk* More or less.

The thing is, it's the same with any extreme view. The positive version is something like 'OMG (Squaddie of choice) IS THE BEST CHARACTER EVAR!!' and refusing to admit the character has flaws (which weirdly enough is what makes them interesting most of the time). Or refusing to accept that whomever does not like said squaddie has a right to do so. If that happened we'd have threads where people would berate the rest of the forum for constant blind love, and I'm sure we've all seen that.

When so many people gather there will always be those extremes, and there will always be the people that try and smooth out the inevitable fights that come from it. That's just how the 'net works I'm afraid.

In the end, your opinion is the one that matters most to you. If you were agreeing with the things being 'whined' about, it probably wouldn't bother you.

That said, if I hear the words 'visceral' or 'awesome' in any form of marketing once more I may have to strangle someone. It's like a quota. How many meaningless hype words can we get in today?

Modifié par Nivilant, 10 juin 2011 - 03:39 .

[aftohsix]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Ui, insults. He's entered Stage 2.

Where do you stand on the Omni-blade?  Just curious...