17 réponses à ce sujet

[ParadoxAu]

One thing that has been a personal annoyance with most modern games is the increasing amount of "Hand-Holding Mechanics" being added into games.

I understand that for some new players, these make the experience more fluid and help them to enjoy the content... However, i don't think i'm alone when i say I'd like an option to turn these features off.

It's been an increasingly common trend in the industry to highlight progression-related objects in the environment often with an obvious glow. (I am not refering to the Blue Interactivity Boxes that have been in all Mass Effect Games). I really hope that if any of these features are included in Mass Effect 3 at Launch, that you also include an option to toggle them off.

In the E3 Demo, we were shown the new smooth movement between cover.
From what i understand the floating arrows were indicators of available
movement options for this system. This is an example of the type of feature i hope we will be able to turn off if they're included in Mass Effect 3.

Please Note: I am not trying to prematurely judge Mass Effect 3 or complain about the game before it's released. I would just like to provide my constructive critism on the issue and hear what other fans think.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 10 juin 2011 - 09:35 .

[roflchoppaz]

I'm tired of people requesting toggles for absolutely everything. Just deal with it, damn it. I have no problem with the 'hand holding mechanics', myself.

[marshalleck]

Those arrows aren't there to "hold your hand."

They're there to tell you the button you've been using to vault over cover will now at this specific moment NOT make you vault over cover, but rather roll out of it. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 10 juin 2011 - 09:41 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Oh look this topic again...

As Marshalleck said it's to advise you what will happen if you use that button again...

so if Shep is behind some cover She[ can vault over or move over to another piece... if your in the middle hitting the button will make Shep vault over, if it's to the side you'll get option to move out of cover or roll over to an adjacent piece... it isn't holding your hand.

[marshalleck]

Actually, I hope they do make it a toggle. I also hope they auto-ban your account and de-authorize your game and all your registered DLC if you have the audacity to come back here complaining about dying because your movements are unpredictable after you disabled the context-sensitive action identifiers.

Modifié par marshalleck, 10 juin 2011 - 09:52 .

[GnusmasTHX]

I just hope there are no gameplay unrelated pop ups like achievement progress in ME2.

Damn those were annoying.

[marshalleck]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I just hope there are no gameplay unrelated pop ups like achievement progress in ME2.

Damn those were annoying.

They weren't as bad as using the upgrade interface in Mordin's lab. That spam could go on forever. <_<

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

marshalleck wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I just hope there are no gameplay unrelated pop ups like achievement progress in ME2.

Damn those were annoying.

They weren't as bad as using the upgrade interface in Mordin's lab. That spam could go on forever. <_<

Yeah if one thing does deserve a toggle it is that.

That got downright silly sometimes.

[roflchoppaz]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

I just hope there are no gameplay unrelated pop ups like achievement progress in ME2.

Damn those were annoying.

They weren't as bad as using the upgrade interface in Mordin's lab. That spam could go on forever. <_<

Yeah if one thing does deserve a toggle it is that.

That got downright silly sometimes.

Toggle? No.

Replacement or complete removal? Yes.

[Capt_Flashheart]

marshalleck wrote...

Those arrows aren't there to "hold your hand."

They're there to tell you the button you've been using to vault over cover will now at this specific moment NOT make you vault over cover, but rather roll out of it. 

In the Uncharted, I SWAT turned, vaulted, rolled and slid flawlessly through the whole game without a single giant floating arrow. They're unnecessary in my opinion.

[LGTX]

Capt_Flashheart wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Those arrows aren't there to "hold your hand."

They're there to tell you the button you've been using to vault over cover will now at this specific moment NOT make you vault over cover, but rather roll out of it. 

In the Uncharted, I SWAT turned, vaulted, rolled and slid flawlessly through the whole game without a single giant floating arrow. They're unnecessary in my opinion.

Two flaws in your logic. 

1. That was Uncharted, not Mass Effect 3
2. That was you, not every player who will get to experience ME3.

People need to understand that games aren't custom-made products. Arrows are the least I can cope with in order to experience an amazing game.

[ParadoxAu]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...
As Marshalleck said it's to advise you what will happen if you use that button again...

so if Shep is behind some cover She can vault over or move over to another piece... if your in the middle hitting the button will make Shep vault over, if it's to the side you'll get option to move out of cover or roll over to an adjacent piece... it isn't holding your hand.

My apologies, i wasn't aware that the Arrows were being used in this way. In an ideal world i would still toggle them off if the option was available, however I wouldn't want a toggle option to cost the game development time in other areas.

marshalleck wrote...

Actually, I hope they do make it a
toggle. I also hope they auto-ban your account and de-authorize your
game and all your registered DLC if you have the audacity to come back
here complaining about dying because your movements are unpredictable
after you disabled the context-sensitive action identifiers.

My original post wasn't intended as a complaint. As i mentioned earlier, i didn't realise the Arrows were being used in this way.

LGTX wrote...

Two flaws in your logic. 

1. That was Uncharted, not Mass Effect 3
2. That was you, not every player who will get to experience ME3.

People
need to understand that games aren't custom-made products. Arrows are
the least I can cope with in order to experience an amazing game.

I understand that games aren't custom-made products. I would be willing to cope with them aswell. I was just expressing my opinion on them and on similar mechanics that are often included in most modern games. I don't expect Developers to create games specifically for me.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 10 juin 2011 - 10:29 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I haven't been following Mass Effect 3 demos too closely, but aren't the arrows there to provide context as to what Shep will do since multiple actions (rolling, vaulting) will occur using the same button?

If that's the case and the arrows are there to provide context, I don't see how that's hand holding. To the contrary, not providing context and just hoping for the best seems counter intuitive.

A good game will provide depth and challenge through the variety and quality of it's gameplay, not by making the player wrestle with dodgy controls and mechanics.

If people want the toggle, then more power to them... but removing them completely sounds like a silly idea.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 10 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[ParadoxAu]

mrcrusty wrote...

I haven't been following Mass Effect 3 demos too closely, but aren't the arrows there to provide context as to what Shep will do since multiple actions (rolling, vaulting) will occur using the same button?

If that's the case and the arrows are there to provide context, I don't see how that's hand holding. To the contrary, not providing context and just hoping for the best seems counter intuitive.

A good game will provide depth and challenge through the variety and quality of it's gameplay, not by making the player wrestle with dodgy controls and mechanics.

If people want the toggle, then more power to them... but removing them completely sounds like a silly idea.

As i've mentioned in my last post, i had read an older article that didn't detail that the arrows were to provide context for controls. The new information you have all provided me with has certainly changed my perspective somewhat of these arrows, i realise now they don't fall directly under my definition of 'Hand-Holding Mechanics'

I agree with you that they shouldn't be removed from the game entirely.

With all this in mind though, i think my opinion on other examples of 'Hand-Holding Mechanics' in games is still valid.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

ParadoxAu wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

I haven't been following Mass Effect 3 demos too closely, but aren't the arrows there to provide context as to what Shep will do since multiple actions (rolling, vaulting) will occur using the same button?

If that's the case and the arrows are there to provide context, I don't see how that's hand holding. To the contrary, not providing context and just hoping for the best seems counter intuitive.

A good game will provide depth and challenge through the variety and quality of it's gameplay, not by making the player wrestle with dodgy controls and mechanics.

If people want the toggle, then more power to them... but removing them completely sounds like a silly idea.

As i've mentioned in my last post, i had read an older article that didn't detail that the arrows were to provide context for controls. The new information you have all provided me with has certainly changed my perspective somewhat of these arrows, i realise now they don't fall directly under my definition of 'Hand-Holding Mechanics'

I agree with you that they shouldn't be removed from the game entirely.

With all this in mind though, i think my opinion on other examples of 'Hand-Holding Mechanics' in games is still valid.

Yeah, I was typing up my post when you posted yours, so I didn't see it until it was too late.

[Capt_Flashheart]

LGTX wrote...

Capt_Flashheart wrote...

In the Uncharted, I SWAT turned, vaulted, rolled and slid flawlessly through the whole game without a single giant floating arrow. They're unnecessary in my opinion.

Two flaws in your logic. 

1. That was Uncharted, not Mass Effect 3
2. That was you, not every player who will get to experience ME3.

People need to understand that games aren't custom-made products. Arrows are the least I can cope with in order to experience an amazing game.

In order to convey my point that a game doesn't require the afformentioned arrows for a player to navigate cover smoothly, I gave an example of such a game. It isn't a logical flaw. 
I see the apparent reasoning behind your second point, however you're assumimg that people have static skill levels.  
To each their own. You need the arrows to enjoy the game. I'm not saying they shouldn't be there just to annoy you, only that there are alternatives.

[LGTX]

Capt_Flashheart wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Capt_Flashheart wrote...

In the Uncharted, I SWAT turned, vaulted, rolled and slid flawlessly through the whole game without a single giant floating arrow. They're unnecessary in my opinion.

Two flaws in your logic. 

1. That was Uncharted, not Mass Effect 3
2. That was you, not every player who will get to experience ME3.

People need to understand that games aren't custom-made products. Arrows are the least I can cope with in order to experience an amazing game.

In order to convey my point that a game doesn't require the afformentioned arrows for a player to navigate cover smoothly, I gave an example of such a game. It isn't a logical flaw. 
I see the apparent reasoning behind your second point, however you're assumimg that people have static skill levels.  
To each their own. You need the arrows to enjoy the game. I'm not saying they shouldn't be there just to annoy you, only that there are alternatives.

Alright then, assuming you know how ME3's mechanics will turn out in the end, and if they will be similar to Uncharted, I can agree behind the logic, but only as much. Creating context-based commands of discriminatory nature is always worse than doing the opposite. Making it "togglable" is simply an extra gimmick the developers may choose to not implement. And "togglable" features are the ones that balance functionality and effectiveness against the player, and not for providing aesthetic comfort. But there have been titles which violated this recently, can't really blame you for wanting them in others...

[ParadoxAu]

LGTX wrote...

Capt_Flashheart wrote...

LGTX wrote...

Capt_Flashheart wrote...

In the Uncharted, I SWAT turned, vaulted, rolled and slid flawlessly through the whole game without a single giant floating arrow. They're unnecessary in my opinion.

Two flaws in your logic. 

1. That was Uncharted, not Mass Effect 3
2. That was you, not every player who will get to experience ME3.

People need to understand that games aren't custom-made products. Arrows are the least I can cope with in order to experience an amazing game.

In order to convey my point that a game doesn't require the afformentioned arrows for a player to navigate cover smoothly, I gave an example of such a game. It isn't a logical flaw. 
I see the apparent reasoning behind your second point, however you're assumimg that people have static skill levels.  
To each their own. You need the arrows to enjoy the game. I'm not saying they shouldn't be there just to annoy you, only that there are alternatives.

Alright then, assuming you know how ME3's mechanics will turn out in the end, and if they will be similar to Uncharted, I can agree behind the logic, but only as much. Creating context-based commands of discriminatory nature is always worse than doing the opposite. Making it "togglable" is simply an extra gimmick the developers may choose to not implement. And "togglable" features are the ones that balance functionality and effectiveness against the player, and not for providing aesthetic comfort. But there have been titles which violated this recently, can't really blame you for wanting them in others...

I agree that for the most part toggle features are used to make gameplay more comfortable for the player. Examples being: Motion Blur, Squad Spell Usage, Mouse Smoothing.

However Bioware games are known for their Immersive Stories. As Bioware have often said, they are all for Storytelling and Immersion unless it inteferes Gameplay. In this case i think it is extremely borderline and incredibly subjective. For alot of players, these context indicators will allow for a smoother gameplay experience However there is also an equally large group of players whom will find these arrows unnecessary and as such the option to remove them would further increase immersion.

I'd also like to point out, that by no means do i think one type of player is better then the other.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 10 juin 2011 - 11:07 .