110 réponses à ce sujet

[JadeEffect]

Silentblaze wrote...

Meh. Biowares knows. Maybe we will in ME3.

On a side note: The galactic governments probably did know about the Reapers and didn't tell the civilians. This led to the biggest "Pearl Harbor" disaster in ME humanity's history.

I believe that the Alliance knew something was coming.  I'm sure Alliance has spy-satellites in Batarian space and knew something big was happening.  So in preparation they gathered a thousand or fleets around Earth's oribt (and possibly other human controlled colonies in Alliance space) for fear of *in my opinion* retaliation from the Batarians OR a possible attack concerning the Reapers.

So in a way, the government knew of an attack, but did not want to worry their citizens.  In short I think the Alliance knew of something, therefore I agree with you.

[GreenDragon37]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Indeed, it would take outside intervention to bring down the oppressive hegemony and none of the other races care enough.

Becuause they aren't asking for help. They don't want it. If their was an anti-Hegemony movement within Batarian Space, then by all means , we'll help. But I don't see that. Besides, we see plenty of Batarians outside of the Hegemony. Why don't they ask for help themselves?

How will word of an anti hegemony movement get out when the hegemony is in total control of all communication and isolationist? And even if word did get out (which I'm certain it has happened, we don't know everything about the ME universe), others wouldn't help if the risk to reward ratio wasn't heavily slanted on the reward side. Look at the modern world, there are many didtatorships and oppressive regimes yet you don't see the developed nations going around liberating them all, only those were the liberating faction can benefit, often at the cost of the liberated.

Maybe we don't see one because their is none? We see plenty that are outside the jurisdiction of the Hegemony, yet none raise a voice? Besides, we have our own interests to deal with. We are new on the galactic stage, we don't have the man-power nor the resources to liberate the Bataians. Especially with what we've seen so far, they haven't given us a reason to liberate them. There would be no benifit in "liberating" a people that don't like us, nor want us anywhere near their space. It'll be like Vietnam. Not worth it.

You don't like us? We don't like you. If you attack us, we have a problem, if you leave us alone, fine and dandy.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 05:33 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Poor Batarians.

[dewayne31]

Bad King wrote...

dewayne31 wrote...

batarians in my opinion deserved no help they are terrorist and slavers. if the common batarian didm't like the way their government they should of done something.

It's never that simple. If the hegemony have control over the batarian armies and mercenaries, they would be extremely difficult to overthrow. Info from the codex and planet descriptions implies that batarians are under constant surveillance by the hegemony (which implies that many are unwilling subjects) and are fed propaganda constantly. Any strong opposition to the hegemony is highly unlikely to form in this oppressive envirnoment.

I don't want this to turn into a real world political debate () but the N azis are a good example- they were nigh-imposible to overthrow (by average german workers) due to their dictatorship being so strong, and that was in the 1930s and 40s! A sci fi dictarorship with devastating weaponry and technology would have even less successful opposition to them.

true

[Skilled Seeker]

I find it hard to believe that the Council does not believe in the Reapers. It's more likely that they deliberately lie to Shepard in order to prevent word from getting out, which would result in mass hysteria and chaos. Thing is, even if they know about the impending doom, what can they really do to prevent it? The odds seem impossible (until the deus ex machina arrives in ME3).

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 juin 2011 - 05:34 .

[GreenDragon37]

Bad King wrote...

dewayne31 wrote...

batarians in my opinion deserved no help they are terrorist and slavers. if the common batarian didm't like the way their government they should of done something.

I don't want this to turn into a real world political debate () but the N azis are a good example- they were nigh-imposible to overthrow (by average german workers) due to their dictatorship being so strong, and that was in the 1930s and 40s! A sci fi dictarorship with devastating weaponry and technology would have even less successful opposition to them.

Yeah, but the Germans put the ****s in power in the first place. Hitler won legtimately, it was only too late they realized what they had done. Or maybe they did know, they just had no-one else to turn to. Understandable since the Treaty of Versaille wasn't fair by any means, but still. Ah, history.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 05:36 .

[Skilled Seeker]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Indeed, it would take outside intervention to bring down the oppressive hegemony and none of the other races care enough.

Becuause they aren't asking for help. They don't want it. If their was an anti-Hegemony movement within Batarian Space, then by all means , we'll help. But I don't see that. Besides, we see plenty of Batarians outside of the Hegemony. Why don't they ask for help themselves?

How will word of an anti hegemony movement get out when the hegemony is in total control of all communication and isolationist? And even if word did get out (which I'm certain it has happened, we don't know everything about the ME universe), others wouldn't help if the risk to reward ratio wasn't heavily slanted on the reward side. Look at the modern world, there are many didtatorships and oppressive regimes yet you don't see the developed nations going around liberating them all, only those were the liberating faction can benefit, often at the cost of the liberated.

Maybe we don't see one because their is none? We see plenty that are outside the jurisdiction of the Hegemony, yet none raise a voice? Besides, we have our own interests to deal with. We are new on the galactic stage, we don't have the man-power nor the resources to liberate the Bataians. Especially with what we've seen so far, they haven't given us a reason to liberate them. There would be no benifit in "liberating" a people that don't like us, nor want us anywhere near their space. It'll be like Vietnam. Not worth it.

You don't like us? We don't like you. If you attack us, we have a problem, if you leave us alone, fine and dandy.

Why would we be told about opposition to the hegemony? It does not concern Shepard's story so there's no need to include it. The batarians are advanced organic lifeforms, to believe they have a hive mind when even Geth disagree is ridiculous. It is a given fact that there would be batarians against the hegemony, it does not require mentioning, just the application of common sense.

And you agree with me on the other part, so you can't blame all batarians for their government. They can't rise against it as no one will help.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 juin 2011 - 05:40 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Without getting too much into real history, most of the Allied powers were still in staunch denial of the **** threat even as they'd begun their first acts of aggression on their neighbors.

It'd ****** me off too if the Council was like this in ME3, though I'd have to admit that this would be a plausible plot element for ME3. People really can deny the obvious if they want to badly enough.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 10 juin 2011 - 05:40 .

[Janus198]

Were all germans Na*is? I don´t think so.
Are all batarians terrorists and slavers? I don´t think so.
A whole nation or race didn´t deserve this fate even
some of them may be a...holes and murders.

Modifié par Janus198, 10 juin 2011 - 05:40 .

[GreenDragon37]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Indeed, it would take outside intervention to bring down the oppressive hegemony and none of the other races care enough.

Becuause they aren't asking for help. They don't want it. If their was an anti-Hegemony movement within Batarian Space, then by all means , we'll help. But I don't see that. Besides, we see plenty of Batarians outside of the Hegemony. Why don't they ask for help themselves?

How will word of an anti hegemony movement get out when the hegemony is in total control of all communication and isolationist? And even if word did get out (which I'm certain it has happened, we don't know everything about the ME universe), others wouldn't help if the risk to reward ratio wasn't heavily slanted on the reward side. Look at the modern world, there are many didtatorships and oppressive regimes yet you don't see the developed nations going around liberating them all, only those were the liberating faction can benefit, often at the cost of the liberated.

Maybe we don't see one because their is none? We see plenty that are outside the jurisdiction of the Hegemony, yet none raise a voice? Besides, we have our own interests to deal with. We are new on the galactic stage, we don't have the man-power nor the resources to liberate the Bataians. Especially with what we've seen so far, they haven't given us a reason to liberate them. There would be no benifit in "liberating" a people that don't like us, nor want us anywhere near their space. It'll be like Vietnam. Not worth it.

You don't like us? We don't like you. If you attack us, we have a problem, if you leave us alone, fine and dandy.

Why would we be told about opposition to the hegemony? It does not concern Shepard's story so there's no need to include it. The batarians are advanced organic lifeforms, to believe they have a hive mind when even Geth disagree is ridiculous. It is a given fact that there would be batarians against the hegemony, it does not require mentioning, just the application of common sense.

And you agree with me on the other part, so you can't blame all batarians for their government. They can't rise against it as no one will help.

Yes, I agree with you, but I don't trust Batarians. If they wanna talk, we'll talk, but I'd be very cautious when doing so.

[Skilled Seeker]

Distrust the government sure. But don't hate on batarian individuals you've never met, and certainly don't be happy about the Reapers genociding them.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^I agree, to an extent. One of Garrus' best crewmembers was a Batarian, and that guy was no terrorist.

The Batarian regime, as a whole, can be considered one of the bad guys though.

[GreenDragon37]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^Without getting too much into real history, most of the Allied powers were still in staunch denial of the **** threat even as they'd begun their first acts of aggression on their neighbors.

It'd ****** me off too if the Council was like this in ME3, though I'd have to admit that this would be a plausible plot element for ME3. People really can deny the obvious if they want to badly enough.

Oh, I know. The Allies dropped the ball during Hitler's conquest of Europe. They should have stopped him at Czechoslovakia/Munich Conference. But they were too afraid/herping and derping.

And I was pissed about the Council's back-sliding in ME2. It was just another way to get us to join Cerberus by making everyone else look like an idiot. <_<

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 10 juin 2011 - 05:46 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Distrust the government sure. But don't hate on batarian individuals you've never met, and certainly don't be happy about the Reapers genociding them.

This.

It makes me facepalm the amount of posters I see lump the whole of the Batarian race into one group. I was really hoping we would get a chance to start the healing process between the two races at some point in the trilogy but that looks very unlikely at this point.

[Pride Demon]

It's possible... The lack of info is not that strange: Batarian Hegemonist have a Department of Information Control, every single news that enters or exits Batarian space is carefully scanned and controlled...

If the Batarian Hegemony thinks the Reapers are Geth ships, they can't show other races in the Terminus, or Humanity (which they think wants their destruction) they are under attack, that makes them look weak and ripe for potential conquest, in such a situation is pretty feasible all the news about the Reapers were obscured untill it was too late...

Bad King wrote...

Why do the reapers have to slowly move through the galaxy, system by system? Can't they simply fire their way across the galaxy once they got to the nearest relay, or have most systems been destroying their relays? (like what happened in arrival).

Only the Alpha Relay could grant access to the whole galaxy all at the same time for a quick surprise attack... We destroyed that...

All the other relays are either very long range (one-arm-of-the-galaxy-to-another range) but strictly point-to-point, as is the case with Primary Relays, or omnidirectional (can access all the relays within a certain radius) but very "short" range (the radius is around 50-100 light years), as in the case of Secondary Relays, so to reach the whole galaxy they'll need to do quite a bit of relay transfers...

Since the colonized clusters are all massed around the relays, that means as soon as the reapers enter the Network they'll be discovered and unlike in "normal" reapings everyone is still capable of using the network to move around and fortify positions if need be...
So as soon as they are discovered this becomes a Conquering Rush for the Reapers: crush them before they can unite and reorganize (which is what Shep has to do)...

Not using the relays until they actually attack means traveling in unpopulated areas and not being detected but also having to go all the way at FTL, that takes quite a bit of time...

What concerns me is that, unless they reached us with FLT (and I doubt it), the only way to arrive to the Sol System is through the Charon Relay; the Charon Relay is a Secondary Relay that leads mainly to the star Arcturus where the seat of the Alliance resides, so...

Does that mean the WHOLE Alliance Fleet has been obliterated?

[Homebound]

Janus198 wrote...

Are all batarians terrorists and slavers? I don´t think so.
.

its in their "culture" to be slavers. u can hear news on the citadel if u use those terminal thingies. they aARE all slavers, or at least support it.

[jamesp81]

Joshua nash wrote...

after reading a good portion of this thread i happen to agree that the reapers have taken control of the batarians, though it is sad that if and when shepard and the rest of the galaxy win, the batarians as a speices may be on the verge of or may have gone extinct

We should not assume the Batarians have been completely exterminated.  We don't know which Batarian worlds were conquered and which weren't.

[Pride Demon]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Maybe we don't see one because their is none? We see plenty that are outside the jurisdiction of the Hegemony, yet none raise a voice? Besides, we have our own interests to deal with. We are new on the galactic stage, we don't have the man-power nor the resources to liberate the Bataians. Especially with what we've seen so far, they haven't given us a reason to liberate them. There would be no benifit in "liberating" a people that don't like us, nor want us anywhere near their space. It'll be like Vietnam. Not worth it.

You don't like us? We don't like you. If you attack us, we have a problem, if you leave us alone, fine and dandy.

We don't see it, because the Batarian Hegemony doesn't want it seen...
Like I said they have a Department of Information Control, with which they obscure the infos they don't like and feed propaganda to normal Batarians...

Unite this with the fact that most normal Batarian civilians are totally prohibited from even leaving Batarian space (the only ones that leave are mainly Slavers, Pirates and Criminals, that may or may not be supplemented the Hegemony), and you see we know pretty much nothing about what the average batarian thinks about his/her own government...

During the Anhur rebellion the Na'hesit slavers were primarily Batarians, but the anti slavery faction that eventually won actually had Batarians in it too, so there definitely are dissenters, however we don't know it...

[jamesp81]

Silentblaze wrote...

Meh. Biowares knows. Maybe we will in ME3.

On a side note: The galactic governments probably did know about the Reapers and didn't tell the civilians. This led to the biggest "Pearl Harbor" disaster in ME humanity's history.

I guess we better hope the fighter carriers weren't in Earth orbit when the hammer dropped.

[Homebound]

jamesp81 wrote...

Joshua nash wrote...

after reading a good portion of this thread i happen to agree that the reapers have taken control of the batarians, though it is sad that if and when shepard and the rest of the galaxy win, the batarians as a speices may be on the verge of or may have gone extinct

We should not assume the Batarians have been completely exterminated.  We don't know which Batarian worlds were conquered and which weren't.

the reapers pwnd Earth and the bulk of the entire alliance navy fleet. How hard do u thinkk it will be for them to pwn a bunch of strapped together raider batarian ships?  the batarian space got cut off, they get no help and are completely on their own. no doubt, they r on the verge of extinction at that point.

[InvaderErl]

Pride Demon wrote...

Does that mean the WHOLE Alliance Fleet has been obliterated?

I remember a dev saying the Alliance Navy had been destroyed during the e3 live demo/chat so its looking that way save for a few ships.

[Homebound]

jamesp81 wrote...

Silentblaze wrote...

Meh. Biowares knows. Maybe we will in ME3.

On a side note: The galactic governments probably did know about the Reapers and didn't tell the civilians. This led to the biggest "Pearl Harbor" disaster in ME humanity's history.

I guess we better hope the fighter carriers weren't in Earth orbit when the hammer dropped.

wait..so the reapers attacked earth cuz earth cut off their oil? PLOT HOLE!

[jamesp81]

Hellbound555 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Joshua nash wrote...

after reading a good portion of this thread i happen to agree that the reapers have taken control of the batarians, though it is sad that if and when shepard and the rest of the galaxy win, the batarians as a speices may be on the verge of or may have gone extinct

We should not assume the Batarians have been completely exterminated.  We don't know which Batarian worlds were conquered and which weren't.

the reapers pwnd Earth and the bulk of the entire alliance navy fleet. How hard do u thinkk it will be for them to pwn a bunch of strapped together raider batarian ships?  the batarian space got cut off, they get no help and are completely on their own. no doubt, they r on the verge of extinction at that point.

It's not about that.

Reapers are not innumerable.  They can't attack every single world at the same time.  It's highly unlikely that they conquered every single batarian world at the outset.

[MarchWaltz]

Don't forget that there was a batarian on Garrus' punisher squad.