Aller au contenu

Photo

Would you like a Pure Paragon Shepard?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
101 réponses à ce sujet

#51
Markinator_123

Markinator_123
  • Members
  • 773 messages

TomY90 wrote...

too be honest I think it all depends in how the tv show or movie portrays the story.

if it something more of a darker story than the ME series could have more of a paragade shepherd as in a batman style of character.

If it is more clean and tidy story then a true paragon will be fitting for such a situation like a spiderman or superman style of film.

if its all action style probably like the mechanic then a renegade would suit it to get the action at its best.

But me personally I would like a paragon because in my opinion he suits the story more than the paragade, renegon and renegade simply because the story in my opinions lends itself to being the traditional hero not the untraditional badass one


I disagree! A paragade playthrough fits the best for Shepard. Seriously, at best Shepard should be a Category 3 anti-hero while he should be a category 4 anti-hero at worst. My Shepard is a category 4. The pure paragon comes across as a snow white character in an otherwise gray world. In my opinion the storyline conflict is one of black and gray morality with Shepard and his allies being the gray and the Reapers being the black.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 11 juin 2011 - 11:49 .


#52
Moiaussi

Moiaussi
  • Members
  • 2 890 messages

jbblue05 wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Why is Pure Paragon Shepard a marine in the first place?


Because some marines manage to check their targets before pulling the trigger while still accomplishing their missions?


Pure Paragon Shepard is more likely to be a diplomat than a marine that is trained to kill a man in hundreds of ways 


See this is the problem with the paragon/renegade discussions. Paragons are not pacifists. "The right thing" includes killing in self defence or in the defence of others. They can also be diplomats... if you can talk a cornerned enemy into surrendering, great, but if they won't surrender that doesn't mean you simply shrug your shoulders and stand there while they shoot at you.

#53
PauseforEffect

PauseforEffect
  • Members
  • 1 022 messages
I think I would have to admire a pure paragon character that can survive a full frontal assault without sabotaging enemies. The fact that Shepard beat stacked odds like the YMIR during Garrus' recruitment would be damn impressive.

#54
Rip504

Rip504
  • Members
  • 3 259 messages
It is my understanding that you can pick most if not all Renegade interrupts in a Paragon playthrough and still end up as a full "BLUE" Paragon.!.

Edit: Maybe not all,but a good few,as i have done this before. Sorry.!.

Modifié par Rip504, 12 juin 2011 - 01:44 .


#55
Guest_thurmanator692_*

Guest_thurmanator692_*
  • Guests
In what capacity are we talking though? If he were a real person, I'd be on friendly terms with him to a degree. The term I use is "cheesecake friend". Good every once in a while, but too much and you'll get sick.

#56
HogarthHughes 3

HogarthHughes 3
  • Members
  • 431 messages

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

I'd hate to have pure paragon Shep as a friend, he'd be no fun!

Joe: Hey Shepard they're selling DVDs at Blockbuster for 15.99 but I know a place where we can get them for 6.99. You in?

Shepard: NO! We'll buy the DVD without the bargain. I won't let cheapness compromise who I am!
...


Ha, meanwhile pure renegade Shepard would just punch you in the face, take your money, then go steal the DVD.

No, I would not like a pure paragon Shepard.  Not as a character in Mass Effect, and not in real life.  I wouldn't hate him/her either, but I wouldn't enjoy being around someone so incredibly idealistic and self-righteous.

#57
RidgerSarns

RidgerSarns
  • Members
  • 14 messages

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

I'd hate to have pure paragon Shep as a friend, he'd be no fun!

Joe: Hey Shepard they're selling DVDs at Blockbuster for 15.99 but I know a place where we can get them for 6.99. You in?

Shepard: NO! We'll buy the DVD without the bargain. I won't let cheapness compromise who I am!


Joe: Hey Shepard, that mugger took my wallet! Go after him!

Shepard: I can't give chase, he said he'd push over a little girl if I did!


Police Officer: So you have a description of the burglar with footage of him stealing your valuables but you DON'T want to press charges?

Shepard: That's correct

Joe: *facepalms*


Joe: Shepard, that clerk just ripped you off!

Shepard: *looks at clerk* I'm very dissapointed in you

Joe: *punches Shepard in the face*


That isn't a paragon, that is an idiot. Being a "good" person doesn't mean you have to be a moron. However, I think that Ned Stark in the Game of Thrones series is a good example of what you are trying to get at.

Modifié par RidgerSarns, 12 juin 2011 - 03:42 .


#58
HogarthHughes 3

HogarthHughes 3
  • Members
  • 431 messages

RidgerSarns wrote...

That isn't a paragon, that is an idiot. Being a "good" person doesn't mean you have to be a moron. However, I think that Ned Stark in the Game of Thrones series is a good example of what you are trying to get at.


What's wrong with Eddard?  I haven't read the books in a few years so my memory is rusty, but as I recall he was one of the few people in power with some integrity.  He and Robert were not suited for the throne, but that doesn't mean that Eddard was an idiot.

#59
Mr. Gogeta34

Mr. Gogeta34
  • Members
  • 4 033 messages
I think a Renegade Shepard would be more fun to watch... he'd still stand up for people and do his heroic deeds, he just never says "Please," lol

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 12 juin 2011 - 04:42 .


#60
Guest_thurmanator692_*

Guest_thurmanator692_*
  • Guests
^uh huh

Matt: Shepard, that clerk forgot to give you your change.
Shepard:[pulls out gun] He won't be making THAT mistake again!

#61
Golden Owl

Golden Owl
  • Members
  • 4 064 messages

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

I'd hate to have pure paragon Shep as a friend, he'd be no fun!

Joe: Hey Shepard they're selling DVDs at Blockbuster for 15.99 but I know a place where we can get them for 6.99. You in?

Shepard: NO! We'll buy the DVD without the bargain. I won't let cheapness compromise who I am!
...


Ha, meanwhile pure renegade Shepard would just punch you in the face, take your money, then go steal the DVD.

No, I would not like a pure paragon Shepard.  Not as a character in Mass Effect, and not in real life.  I wouldn't hate him/her either, but I wouldn't enjoy being around someone so incredibly idealistic and self-righteous.


Actually I would like to know him and would be quite fond of him, he would be fun to challenge and debate with and I can be assured of the fact that he isn't going to shoot me in the face just because I disagree with him.

#62
Golden Owl

Golden Owl
  • Members
  • 4 064 messages

Saphra Deden wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

And Paragon being a wimp and dooming galxy to feel better? I guess you never played Arrival DLC as Paragon.



It never ceases to amuse me when the die-hard Paragons on this site defend Shepard's actions in Arrival despite the fact that it was a distinctly Renegade decision to make. Paragon Shepard never would have made that sacrifice. He'd have given some sappy speech about not being any better than the Reapers if we destroyed entire star systems.

I think they're just fanboys.


@Saphra Deden, you have argued this before and I'm still not getting where you get this idea from...Of coarse he would, he has no other choice, is the lesser of the two evils.

#63
Golden Owl

Golden Owl
  • Members
  • 4 064 messages

Moiaussi wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Why is Pure Paragon Shepard a marine in the first place?


Because some marines manage to check their targets before pulling the trigger while still accomplishing their missions?


Pure Paragon Shepard is more likely to be a diplomat than a marine that is trained to kill a man in hundreds of ways 


See this is the problem with the paragon/renegade discussions. Paragons are not pacifists. "The right thing" includes killing in self defence or in the defence of others. They can also be diplomats... if you can talk a cornerned enemy into surrendering, great, but if they won't surrender that doesn't mean you simply shrug your shoulders and stand there while they shoot at you.


Seconded Moiaussi

#64
GuardianAngel470

GuardianAngel470
  • Members
  • 4 922 messages
No, I could never get behind a pure paragon. I can't get behind someone who willfully allows his friends to be in greater danger because of one merc's life or one Krogan you'll have to kill anyway. I can't get behind someone who places their ideals ahead of the most reasonable course of action.

Ideals are glorified opinions, which are rooted in emotions. To sacrifice one's ideals would make them upset and at the end of the day, that feeling of unease is all a person is trying to escape.

A truly selfless person would sacrifice their ideals and their emotions (and possibly mental wellbeing) in order to protect the greatest number of people. One man's life is insignificant next to those of a Galaxy.

A pure paragon is not acting to benefit others; they are acting to benefit themselves. They are attempting to avoid their own discomfort by acting "righteously" instead of acting in the best interests of their squad, their crew, and the galaxy at large.

#65
Golden Owl

Golden Owl
  • Members
  • 4 064 messages

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

No, I could never get behind a pure paragon. I can't get behind someone who willfully allows his friends to be in greater danger because of one merc's life or one Krogan you'll have to kill anyway. I can't get behind someone who places their ideals ahead of the most reasonable course of action.

Ideals are glorified opinions, which are rooted in emotions. To sacrifice one's ideals would make them upset and at the end of the day, that feeling of unease is all a person is trying to escape.

A truly selfless person would sacrifice their ideals and their emotions (and possibly mental wellbeing) in order to protect the greatest number of people. One man's life is insignificant next to those of a Galaxy.

A pure paragon is not acting to benefit others; they are acting to benefit themselves. They are attempting to avoid their own discomfort by acting "righteously" instead of acting in the best interests of their squad, their crew, and the galaxy at large.


Or another way of seeing it, paragon acts with integrity, renegade acts out of uncontrolled temper.

#66
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

Grand Admiral Cheesecake
  • Members
  • 5 704 messages

thurmanator692 wrote...

 "cheesecake friend".

:crying:

#67
GuardianAngel470

GuardianAngel470
  • Members
  • 4 922 messages

Golden Owl wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

No, I could never get behind a pure paragon. I can't get behind someone who willfully allows his friends to be in greater danger because of one merc's life or one Krogan you'll have to kill anyway. I can't get behind someone who places their ideals ahead of the most reasonable course of action.

Ideals are glorified opinions, which are rooted in emotions. To sacrifice one's ideals would make them upset and at the end of the day, that feeling of unease is all a person is trying to escape.

A truly selfless person would sacrifice their ideals and their emotions (and possibly mental wellbeing) in order to protect the greatest number of people. One man's life is insignificant next to those of a Galaxy.

A pure paragon is not acting to benefit others; they are acting to benefit themselves. They are attempting to avoid their own discomfort by acting "righteously" instead of acting in the best interests of their squad, their crew, and the galaxy at large.


Or another way of seeing it, paragon acts with integrity, renegade acts out of uncontrolled temper.


Which is why I'm neither. Integrity is important during peace time but has a much lessened place during wartime. True, commiting warcrimes out of a lack of integrity is bad but if you think, to use a recent example, that Osama bin Laden was given a fair fight then you'd be naiive. 

If you think the subjects of Predator drone strikes were given a fair trial you're mistaken. If you think the US would give up its stealth technology to ensure that everyone is on a level playing field you're mistaken. For that matter, if you think we'd give out nukes to every country that asked because we want everyone to have the same advantages you're wrong.

Integrity should be a guiding force for decision making but not the be all and end all. If something traditionally considered wrong needs to be done to secure the safety of civilians, military personnel, or your teammates a person should be willing to do it and not be hampered by their own misgivings.

It is a fine line but one that can be walked.

#68
GuardianAngel470

GuardianAngel470
  • Members
  • 4 922 messages

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

 "cheesecake friend".

:crying:


Ha ha ha! That was hilarious...

#69
Golden Owl

Golden Owl
  • Members
  • 4 064 messages

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

No, I could never get behind a pure paragon. I can't get behind someone who willfully allows his friends to be in greater danger because of one merc's life or one Krogan you'll have to kill anyway. I can't get behind someone who places their ideals ahead of the most reasonable course of action.

Ideals are glorified opinions, which are rooted in emotions. To sacrifice one's ideals would make them upset and at the end of the day, that feeling of unease is all a person is trying to escape.

A truly selfless person would sacrifice their ideals and their emotions (and possibly mental wellbeing) in order to protect the greatest number of people. One man's life is insignificant next to those of a Galaxy.

A pure paragon is not acting to benefit others; they are acting to benefit themselves. They are attempting to avoid their own discomfort by acting "righteously" instead of acting in the best interests of their squad, their crew, and the galaxy at large.


Or another way of seeing it, paragon acts with integrity, renegade acts out of uncontrolled temper.


Which is why I'm neither. Integrity is important during peace time but has a much lessened place during wartime. True, commiting warcrimes out of a lack of integrity is bad but if you think, to use a recent example, that Osama bin Laden was given a fair fight then you'd be naiive. 

If you think the subjects of Predator drone strikes were given a fair trial you're mistaken. If you think the US would give up its stealth technology to ensure that everyone is on a level playing field you're mistaken. For that matter, if you think we'd give out nukes to every country that asked because we want everyone to have the same advantages you're wrong.

Integrity should be a guiding force for decision making but not the be all and end all. If something traditionally considered wrong needs to be done to secure the safety of civilians, military personnel, or your teammates a person should be willing to do it and not be hampered by their own misgivings.

It is a fine line but one that can be walked.

Which is why my 98% paragon Shep will shoot the tank under the Krogan, but will not attack an unarmed civilian or attack on an empty threat...Integrity can still be maintained, though granted there are times in which he has to bend....I agree completely, there is a fine line....Though renegade loss of temper, I would see still as the greater threat even to war time needs.

As for Bin Laden, Drones, etc...I am not American and am not up with the details....plus such disussion really shouldn't be on this forum, if using examples please use less potentially explosive ones.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 12 juin 2011 - 11:40 .


#70
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

Grand Admiral Cheesecake
  • Members
  • 5 704 messages

Golden Owl wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

No, I could never get behind a pure paragon. I can't get behind someone who willfully allows his friends to be in greater danger because of one merc's life or one Krogan you'll have to kill anyway. I can't get behind someone who places their ideals ahead of the most reasonable course of action.

Ideals are glorified opinions, which are rooted in emotions. To sacrifice one's ideals would make them upset and at the end of the day, that feeling of unease is all a person is trying to escape.

A truly selfless person would sacrifice their ideals and their emotions (and possibly mental wellbeing) in order to protect the greatest number of people. One man's life is insignificant next to those of a Galaxy.

A pure paragon is not acting to benefit others; they are acting to benefit themselves. They are attempting to avoid their own discomfort by acting "righteously" instead of acting in the best interests of their squad, their crew, and the galaxy at large.


Or another way of seeing it, paragon acts with integrity, renegade acts out of uncontrolled temper.


Which is why I'm neither. Integrity is important during peace time but has a much lessened place during wartime. True, commiting warcrimes out of a lack of integrity is bad but if you think, to use a recent example, that Osama bin Laden was given a fair fight then you'd be naiive. 

If you think the subjects of Predator drone strikes were given a fair trial you're mistaken. If you think the US would give up its stealth technology to ensure that everyone is on a level playing field you're mistaken. For that matter, if you think we'd give out nukes to every country that asked because we want everyone to have the same advantages you're wrong.

Integrity should be a guiding force for decision making but not the be all and end all. If something traditionally considered wrong needs to be done to secure the safety of civilians, military personnel, or your teammates a person should be willing to do it and not be hampered by their own misgivings.

It is a fine line but one that can be walked.

Which is why my 98% paragon Shep will shoot the tank under the Krogan, but will not attack an unarmed civilian or attack on an empty threat...Integrity can still be maintained, though granted there are times in which he has to bend....I agree completely, there is a fine line....Though renegade loss of temper, I would see still as the greater threat even to war time needs.

As for Bin Laden, Drones, etc...I am not American and am not up with the details....plus such disussion really shouldn't be on this forum, if using examples please use less potentially explosive ones.

less potentially explosive ones?

Okay how about Paragon Shep has to choose between saving 1,000,000 humans and 9,000,000 Batarians, a Shep with integrity would feel obligated to save the blinks.

But no one would save the blinks.

#71
Golden Owl

Golden Owl
  • Members
  • 4 064 messages

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

No, I could never get behind a pure paragon. I can't get behind someone who willfully allows his friends to be in greater danger because of one merc's life or one Krogan you'll have to kill anyway. I can't get behind someone who places their ideals ahead of the most reasonable course of action.

Ideals are glorified opinions, which are rooted in emotions. To sacrifice one's ideals would make them upset and at the end of the day, that feeling of unease is all a person is trying to escape.

A truly selfless person would sacrifice their ideals and their emotions (and possibly mental wellbeing) in order to protect the greatest number of people. One man's life is insignificant next to those of a Galaxy.

A pure paragon is not acting to benefit others; they are acting to benefit themselves. They are attempting to avoid their own discomfort by acting "righteously" instead of acting in the best interests of their squad, their crew, and the galaxy at large.


Or another way of seeing it, paragon acts with integrity, renegade acts out of uncontrolled temper.


Which is why I'm neither. Integrity is important during peace time but has a much lessened place during wartime. True, commiting warcrimes out of a lack of integrity is bad but if you think, to use a recent example, that Osama bin Laden was given a fair fight then you'd be naiive. 

If you think the subjects of Predator drone strikes were given a fair trial you're mistaken. If you think the US would give up its stealth technology to ensure that everyone is on a level playing field you're mistaken. For that matter, if you think we'd give out nukes to every country that asked because we want everyone to have the same advantages you're wrong.

Integrity should be a guiding force for decision making but not the be all and end all. If something traditionally considered wrong needs to be done to secure the safety of civilians, military personnel, or your teammates a person should be willing to do it and not be hampered by their own misgivings.

It is a fine line but one that can be walked.

Which is why my 98% paragon Shep will shoot the tank under the Krogan, but will not attack an unarmed civilian or attack on an empty threat...Integrity can still be maintained, though granted there are times in which he has to bend....I agree completely, there is a fine line....Though renegade loss of temper, I would see still as the greater threat even to war time needs.

As for Bin Laden, Drones, etc...I am not American and am not up with the details....plus such disussion really shouldn't be on this forum, if using examples please use less potentially explosive ones.

less potentially explosive ones?

Okay how about Paragon Shep has to choose between saving 1,000,000 humans and 9,000,000 Batarians, a Shep with integrity would feel obligated to save the blinks.

But no one would save the blinks.


Who says?...Not biting anyway, so irrelevant.

Less explosive, I mean something not involving present day issues or politics.

#72
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

Grand Admiral Cheesecake
  • Members
  • 5 704 messages
[/quote]

Who says?...Not biting anyway, so irrelevant.

Less explosive, I mean something not involving present day issues or politics.

[/quote]
That is less explosive absolutely no references to modern day issues or politics.

#73
Golden Owl

Golden Owl
  • Members
  • 4 064 messages
[quote]Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...


[/quote]

Who says?...Not biting anyway, so irrelevant.

Less explosive, I mean something not involving present day issues or politics.

[/quote]
That is less explosive absolutely no references to modern day issues or politics.



[/quote]

I will put it this way...I don't share the Batarian hate common on this thread, so is a tough question for me.

#74
GuardianAngel470

GuardianAngel470
  • Members
  • 4 922 messages

Golden Owl wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Who says?...Not biting anyway, so irrelevant.

Less explosive, I mean something not involving present day issues or politics.

That is less explosive absolutely no references to modern day issues or politics.


I will put it this way...I don't share the Batarian hate common on this thread, so is a tough question for me.


Me neither. I tried to alert the batarian colony in Arrival and really hope that Bioware make a Batarian squadmember (assuming they aren't the new client race of the Reapers. That would suck) as it would add a considerable amount of drama. 

Think Batarian plague victim only writ large. A confrontational relationship from the beginning with the opportunity for a major change or a major betrayal depending on player actions. It would be pretty awesome.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 12 juin 2011 - 12:41 .


#75
Rheia

Rheia
  • Members
  • 816 messages
Leaning towards paragon side of things is a lot more palatable in ME1. Not so much in ME2. Imho, of course. I've had a 'pure' paragon run of ME1, but I never made it through ME2 without renegade choices (and I mean, consiously renegade, where you go for a red trigger or a red line instead of a blue, or even neutral instead of blue).

That said, consistant renegade is also daunting, even in ME2. My favorite runs are all 'middle ground' in that sometimes paragon choices are picked, sometimes renegade, and occasionally the non-point yeilding dialog choices. I even had one that ended ME2 with almost equal amount in red/blue bar.

So, original question... nope. Wouldn't want a pure paragon Shep. At all :).