155 réponses à ce sujet

[78stonewobble]

Yes and no and yes.

Haven't anyone played elder scrolls oblivion here?

Huge landscape without loading screens (it's streamed in the background). Load screens occur when you enter and exit cities (made logical by the fact that cities have walls around them).

Landscape had forrests, jungle/swamps, mountains, hills, fields, relics and small towns and inn's.

How would you translate something like that to a scifi game like ME? I don't really know but it worked beautifully in that game. The travelling and the sights was half the fun in that game. In ME it's loadscreens.

[Robhuzz]

AlanC9 wrote...

How about having none of this at all?

I mean, really. The final war with the Reapers has started, and Shepard's running around on barren worlds?

We might need some valuable metals you can only scan from the ground in order to rebuild the alliance fleet? 


But seriously, there's no time to go around driving on barren worlds to do some exploration. I'm all for side missions and stuff as long as they contribute to the overall war effort. Naturally, this doesn't include salvaging a pile of platinum that's only accesible by using an old heavy mech or inspecting a downed freighter that's been on a planet's surface for a decade.

No hate for the ME2 assignments btw, I liked them although they'd be severely out of place in ME3's story.

[elitecom]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Those side quests were localised to a particular planet. It's different when Shep can travel to the other side of the galaxy to gather some space rock.

As I've written before, resources are important for the Alliance.

onelifecrisis wrote...
Please, let's not drag this into yet another pointless debate on what an RPG is, especially seeing as ME3 isn't an RPG. You want exploration, I don't. I gave my reasons.

And no, the game would not be over too soon without sidequests. ME2 takes almost 30 hours just to do the main story, which makes it several times the length of the average SP shooter campaign. Don't get me wrong, I love that it's 30 hours long. I'm just saying that your argument (that it's "too short" without side-quests and exploration) doesn't hold water.

ME3 is a Role Playing Game, it's also partly a shooter. I believe the argument "(that it's "too short" without side-quests and exploration) doesn't hold water." Holds water indeed. I haven't taken a time on how long the main ME2 quest takes, but recruiting everyone, and then go to the Omega-4 Relay. Well I think it's a bit shorter than 30 hours.

I don't know about you, but I like to do quests besides the main one, to help me evolve my character. I want to see and explore the galaxy, travel to different worlds and uncover hidden mysteries, these things add a lot to the game experience.

Warkupo wrote...
...No, that wasn't my take on exploration. My take on exploration was a reply above the one you're qouting. That is me clarifying my previous statement so that you understand that I don't actually descredit the ME3 teams' ability to make a solid game that isn't full of needlessly boring padding. Rather, my previous comment was ment to demonstrate what a terrible state of mind you'd need to be in to think that adding in exploration akin to ME1 was a good idea.

Again that's your take on the exploration I'm proposing, I still think the measures you proposed for the ME3 team is a bit extreme just because they again added ME1 exploration.

[elitecom]

elitecom wrote...

FluffyScarf wrote...

Those side quests were localised to a particular planet. It's different when Shep can travel to the other side of the galaxy to gather some space rock.

As I've written before, resources are important for the Alliance.

onelifecrisis wrote...
Please, let's not drag this into yet another pointless debate on what an RPG is, especially seeing as ME3 isn't an RPG. You want exploration, I don't. I gave my reasons.

And no, the game would not be over too soon without sidequests. ME2 takes almost 30 hours just to do the main story, which makes it several times the length of the average SP shooter campaign. Don't get me wrong, I love that it's 30 hours long. I'm just saying that your argument (that it's "too short" without side-quests and exploration) doesn't hold water.

ME3 is a Role Playing Game, it's also partly a shooter. Perhaps however it was phrased a bit bad, I don't mean that the game would be shorter in terms of time. However to not be able to do sidequests and explore, well the game wouldn't feel as big, I'd feel more confined. Especially if I knew that it was just to go to these worlds, do the objectives and the game is finished. It would feel more like a shooter than a roleplaying game.

Warkupo wrote...
...No, that wasn't my take on exploration. My take on exploration was a reply above the one you're qouting. That is me clarifying my previous statement so that you understand that I don't actually descredit the ME3 teams' ability to make a solid game that isn't full of needlessly boring padding. Rather, my previous comment was ment to demonstrate what a terrible state of mind you'd need to be in to think that adding in exploration akin to ME1 was a good idea.

Again that's your take on the exploration I'm proposing, I still think the measures you proposed for the ME3 team is a bit extreme just because they again added ME1 exploration.

[Kabanya101]

A world like Elder Scrolls Oblivion wouldn't mesh with ME3 at all, especially since you'd be in space, not on a continent.

Exploration like Hammerhead, no. Too linear.
Exploration like Mako, maybe. First time doing it was fun, but then the sandbox become way o annoying.

Exploration should be like ME1, but make the sandbox smaller and more detailed. Not to the point of linear quests and exploring, but in between.

[88mphSlayer]

i'm not sure why people have a problem with exploration since it's always optional

[78stonewobble]

Kabanya101 wrote...

A world like Elder Scrolls Oblivion wouldn't mesh with ME3 at all, especially since you'd be in space, not on a continent.

Exploration like Hammerhead, no. Too linear.
Exploration like Mako, maybe. First time doing it was fun, but then the sandbox become way o annoying.

Exploration should be like ME1, but make the sandbox smaller and more detailed. Not to the point of linear quests and exploring, but in between.

Hmm not exactly my point but my point wasn't that obvious *communication fail from my part*

The translation would be that the number of areas we DO visit are limited but they would be bigger and allow for more exploring. Oblivion without the outside landscapes but then double or triple sized cities as an analogy.

In ME all the spacestations, planets are reduced to a tiny level. Sure you get to visit certain other mission specifik areas but theyre not interesting outside the mission and you can't even revisit them.

[Eleinehmm]

The Alliance: Shepard, the Earth is burning
Shepard: Sorry, Need to mine this deposit

Seriously, I like exploration, but I can not imagine how to fit it into the story.

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 12 juin 2011 - 03:34 .

[elitecom]

Kabanya101 wrote...

A world like Elder Scrolls Oblivion wouldn't mesh with ME3 at all, especially since you'd be in space, not on a continent.

Exploration like Hammerhead, no. Too linear.
Exploration like Mako, maybe. First time doing it was fun, but then the sandbox become way o annoying.

Exploration should be like ME1, but make the sandbox smaller and more detailed. Not to the point of linear quests and exploring, but in between.

I agree that exploration should revert to its ME1 state, but size is the question. I can understand for some that the first time you explore a sandbox environment it's fun. However after a couple of times you know what's there and it might become a bit tedious to drive all those distances. It's a difficult problem to solve for those that don't like to drive those distances. Perhaps to allow the player to select a drop point, so you can redrop on different places on the map. It would of course have to be a senisble system, you can't for example be dropped right in an enemy base.

Eleinehmm wrote...

The Alliance: Shepard, the Earth is burning
Shepard: Sorry, Need to mine this deposit

Seriously, I like exploration, but I can not imagine how to fit it into the story.

It has been discussed before, and I reply with this:
In ME1 we had a galaxy to save, in ME2 we had a galaxy to save, and what did we have time to in both those games? Exploration among a couple of other things, such as getting drunk on the Citadel. If Shepard has time to get drunk on the Citadel, he has time to explore space as well.

[slimgrin]

Kabanya101 wrote...


Exploration should be like ME1, but make the sandbox smaller and more detailed. Not to the point of linear quests and exploring, but in between.

I agree with this.

[FlyingWalrus]

Warkupo wrote...

The world exploration segment of Mass Effect 1 is the most boring, repetitive, half-thought out idea in the entire history of ever. I do not consider a new skybox and texture swap to be 'atmospheric'. I do not find going to one of the same three bases, having a short dialog (if that), and then killing everyone inside to be engaging. I do not feel that flailing around in the Mako like a cat in a washing machine to be fun. I do not enjoy aimlessly wandering around a vast wasteland of emptiness for thirty minutes to MAYBE find SOMETHING of interest.

In short, I would not play ME3 if the 'explore nothing' feature was reintroduced. I would seriously question the psyche evaluations of the entire ME3 staff if they thought bringing back such an obviously rushed concept was a good idea.

You know, this is why I hated 'exploration' in Dragon Age II as well. All of the 'hideouts' and 'mansions' and 'caves' were different versions of the same four maps, just like the merc and pirate hangouts in ME1.

Also, I've ranted long and hard about how pointless the exploration in ME1 was. There was little that was rewarding about it besides, "Whoo! I'm free-wheeling in a moon buggy!" and that lost its shine after the second playthrough. Perhaps with multiple landing points on a planet, the environments will be smaller but th exploration will be more... in-depth, perhaps?

[Kadzin]

AlanC9 wrote...

How about having none of this at all?

I mean, really. The final war with the Reapers has started, and Shepard's running around on barren worlds?

But... but... I need that 50000 k Platinum to fix my scars again for being an **** to everyone

[Massadonious1]

I'd hardly consider it exploration when all the key points were already highlighted on the mini-map.

[FlyingWalrus]

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'd hardly consider it exploration when all the key points were already highlighted on the mini-map.

There were a couple of things that weren't already marked on the map.

Nothing worth canvassing the planet over half an hour for, however.

[Pepper4]

Someone asked about vehicle exploration on the last episode of Bioware Pulse that featured a live Q&A with Casey Hudson.
Casey dogded the question and talked about the Atlas and the vehicle with the mounted machine gun that you fought a reaper with. (this is a horrible sentence in english)
I think it is safe to assume that vehicle exploration isn't coming back.

[Kadzin]

It would be nice to have some sort of exploration but not oo much of it.
If they could come up the randomised events instead of preset ones, then the replayability value and the timesinkiness of it will surely go up.

[EternalPink]

Currently replaying ME1 so i'm doing mako driving at the moment and it is basically holding down the direction you want to go till you get there on the map since it will climb almost any angle, its a good idea but its one that gets old quick.

Hammer head from ME2 might be better since then exploration would be quick but they'd need to give that vehicle or its replacement some armor since it really sucked in combat

[Sidney]

Eleinehmm wrote...

The Alliance: Shepard, the Earth is burning
Shepard: Sorry, Need to mine this deposit

Seriously, I like exploration, but I can not imagine how to fit it into the story.

Exploration doesn't fit and truth me told it isn't even interesting in those games where it is used.

Take your pick of FNV or Oblivion and what does exploration net you? A chance to dive some generic cut n' paste mine/cave/foraken temple filled with boring monsters for some nominal loot. It is just a way to grind and for lazy developers to pump up the "play time" of their games. Yes, I'm even saying that about Bioware where ME1 was "longer" than it was because of time spent driving the MAKO around doing nothing related to the plot.

[Sidney]

elitecom wrote...
As I've written before, resources are important for the Alliance.

Resources are important for the USA. do they send SEAL Team 6 to find new sources of heavy metals or might they send, I don't know, geologists?

[elitecom]

Sidney wrote...

elitecom wrote...
As I've written before, resources are important for the Alliance.

Resources are important for the USA. do they send SEAL Team 6 to find new sources of heavy metals or might they send, I don't know, geologists?

What did you do in ME1 and ME2? Yeah you scanned for resources. In ME1 you were still part of the Alliance, and you scanned for resources. This is Alliance way of doing things, just because the Alliance won't do it in the "US way" doesn't make it wrong.

Pepper4 wrote...

Someone asked about vehicle exploration on the last episode of Bioware Pulse that featured a live Q&A with Casey Hudson.
Casey dogded the question and talked about the Atlas and the vehicle with the mounted machine gun that you fought a reaper with. (this is a horrible sentence in english)
I think it is safe to assume that vehicle exploration isn't coming back.

Don't give up your hopes yet, if there's a strong demand from the fan base, then Bioware might still consider it. Besides nothing has been confirmed or denied yet regarding vehicle exploration, so now is an especially good time to press on the issue.

Modifié par elitecom, 19 juin 2011 - 08:25 .

[CannonO]

I thought that some of the best and most beautiful defining imagery of Mass Effect came from exploring the barren worlds in the first game. The skies and feeling of standing alone on an open planet in space was beautiful. The second game abandoned the pristine and simple, beautiful space scenes that made the first Mass Effect what it was.

[LPPrince]

CannonLars wrote...

I thought that some of the best and most beautiful defining imagery of Mass Effect came from exploring the barren worlds in the first game. The skies and feeling of standing alone on an open planet in space was beautiful. The second game abandoned the pristine and simple, beautiful space scenes that made the first Mass Effect what it was.

And this is why I wish we got UNC's like ME1's in ME3.

[Eurhetemec]

CannonLars wrote...

I thought that some of the best and most beautiful defining imagery of Mass Effect came from exploring the barren worlds in the first game. The skies and feeling of standing alone on an open planet in space was beautiful. The second game abandoned the pristine and simple, beautiful space scenes that made the first Mass Effect what it was.

I would completely agree. They didn't have to, either, and it's notable that they failed to do it with the Hammerhead too.

Instead almost every single non-storyline planet we visit the surface of is either:

A) A jungle. A really earth-like jungle. Not different coloured plants. Not freaky looking plants. Just a jungle. Wildly disappointing. ME2 shouldn't look like Far Cry, guys, not more than once.

or

A rocky canyon. Virtually all the Hammerhead levels are this, with the only cool-looking one being the post-industrial wasteland it visits at one point.

A couple of levels mix it up and have a canyon that's a bit jungle-y, or a canyon that's shrouded by fog or the like. I know why this is - they're trying to restrict player movement, but for god's sake guys, I'd rather have invisible walls than every damn level be a canyon or a jungle.

Indeed, even if we add in the areas for the missions, which are better-realized, some are awesome, but they really only add two "looks":

C) FutureCity.

and

D) Post-industrial/post-apocalyptic wasteland.

Even without vehicles they could give us some magnificent, barren, terrifying, alien worlds. ALIEN WORLDS. Not "A jungle", not "A snowy place" not "A volcano" - not only can we find all these things on Earth, but we can find them in EVERY other computer game out there.

ME1 gave us actual alien worlds. Not all of them were really well-realized, in fact most weren't - but at least some of them seemed actually alien! Like we might actually be IN SPACE, not just Filming On Location, as it were. What we've seen of ME3 so far isn't promising in this regard, solely, because it looks like the action with Cerberus base is taking place on, yawn, another Earth-like green world. Why not have the world orbit a red dwarf and thus have dark purple or black vegetation? I mean Virmire was a good level guys, doesn't mean all good levels need to look like Virmire!

I'm not trying to knock ME's art direction. It's extremely strong, but I just feel like, all too often, they fall back on a few looks, which aren't quite sci-fi enough. I mean, you've got an ice-planet, right, why make it white like Noveria when it could be blue or even purple-ish like some of the worlds in ME1? You've got a volcano, right? Why cover it in boring grey rocks, when you could have it have covered the landscape with shiny obsidian-like material or the like. You've got a jungle, why not make the trees look really odd, or the birds clearly not earth-birds or the like?

[elitecom]

Eurhetemec wrote...
ME1 gave us actual alien worlds. Not all of them were really well-realized, in fact most weren't - but at least some of them seemed actually alien! Like we might actually be IN SPACE, not just Filming On Location, as it were. What we've seen of ME3 so far isn't promising in this regard, solely, because it looks like the action with Cerberus base is taking place on, yawn, another Earth-like green world. Why not have the world orbit a red dwarf and thus have dark purple or black vegetation? I mean Virmire was a good level guys, doesn't mean all good levels need to look like Virmire!

I'm not trying to knock ME's art direction. It's extremely strong, but I just feel like, all too often, they fall back on a few looks, which aren't quite sci-fi enough. I mean, you've got an ice-planet, right, why make it white like Noveria when it could be blue or even purple-ish like some of the worlds in ME1? You've got a volcano, right? Why cover it in boring grey rocks, when you could have it have covered the landscape with shiny obsidian-like material or the like. You've got a jungle, why not make the trees look really odd, or the birds clearly not earth-birds or the like?

These are good points, we haven't seen everything in ME3 yet, but nevertheless good points and I agree. Firefights out in the open with a giant red star shining from the sky, I'd definitely say yes. Alien environments don't necessarily just have to come in the shape of barren worlds, you could've alien vegation as well.  

[Admoniter]

EternalPink wrote...
Hammer head from ME2 might be better
since then exploration would be quick but they'd need to give that
vehicle or its replacement some armor since it really sucked in
combat

HH levels where just as terrible as the vehicle
designed for them, almost every single one was just one horrendous
platforming segment on top of another. if I wanted to play mario 3d with a brick I would do just that. The only one that was actually decent was Overlords HH section and even then the HH itself kind of ruined it.

Kabanya101 wrote...
Exploration should be like ME1, but make the sandbox smaller and more detailed. Not to the point of linear quests and exploring, but in between.

This is is what I would want not quite the barren wastelands with almost nothing of interest ala ME1 and not the arcadey platfomer levels of ME2. A happy middle ground something Overlord size would be perfectly acceptable.


Also no resource scanning ffs, I have done enough of that between the two games to win a grant from a geological society. It was tedious in ME1 and was downright terribad in ME2 both were not fun both were a waste of time. Beter they just ditch the resource system because I highly doubt that third try is the charm.