447 réponses à ce sujet

[AgentMrOrange]

Come to think about it no one met morinth so no one know who she is and I don’t think samara told anyone else about morinth. it seemed like she wanted to keep it a secret so unless morinth or shep says something no one knows what really happen

[Izhalezan]

jreezy wrote...

"Just because"? Yeah I'm not so sure. 

Obviously there'll be more to it then "just cuz" I just don't wanna speculate past the idea that at least one or more people will know.

Modifié par Izhalezan, 13 janvier 2012 - 10:06 .

[silentassassin264]

implodinggoat wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

And neither part can think of a decent response but I suspected as much.

The difference is that killing Morinth doesn't entail the extinction of a sentient species, killing the Rachni Queen does.

And letting the Rachni Queen run free and her revving up the Rachni War Machine for Rachni Wars v2. entails the extinction of all the council races.  Letting her run free on Noveria is blatant stupidity.  It would be something if you let the council decide, or at least fight for her to be freed to council and let them keep track of where she is and the Rachni numbers.  But just letting her run free when all the information you have on the Rachni is that they were extremely hostile at first sight and tried to wipe out everyone else around them is stupid.  It turns out for the good since the Rachni were magically indoctrinated (which I could make an entire thread and probably will on how that makes absolutely no sense but that is a different topic) and it handwaves any negative consequence because it was a paragon option.  But as I said, if the Rachni Queen betrays and does build up an army to resume war, you have destroyed the galaxy, congrats.  Seeing as you have no magical ability to see into the future if you are roleplaying without metagaming, sparing the Rachni queen makes about as much sense as having sex with Morinth.  Just because it turns out for the good doesn't mean it was a smart decision.  The Rachni Queen also has very little to do with this thread so lets get back on topic before a mod actually peeks in here.

[Goneaviking]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Except you are making up straw man arguments to make an inane point. Your "you want it dead just because you can kill it" is something you made up and has nothing to do anything at all. First of all, not all renegades are the same and can have varying motives for their actions. Second of all, not everyone who kills the Rachni Queen has to even be a renegade.

True and true.

silentassassin264 wrote...

Second of all you are leaving out a very VERY big caveat. The rachni Queen on Noveria is a clone with all the memories and experiences, thus making it a reincarnation, of an omnicidal murderous war queen. Your point that it can talk or has intelligence is moronic. Morinth can talk and is quite intelligent and you were just crucifying her. Intelligence =/= good.

False. The rachni queen was taken from a millenia old unhatched egg (implausible I know, but there it is according to the scientists present), the rachni apparently have some kind of genetic memory which gives the queen a knowledge of happened millenia ago but that doesn't make her a) a reincarnation or a murderer. She isn't responsible for the actions of her ancestors anymore than I'm responsible for my father's activities prior to my birth (or now for that matter).

Morinth has the distinction of having chosen to commit murder repeatedly for centuries and is absolutely responsible for actions, regardless of whether she's genetically predisposed to it or not.

silentassassin264 wrote...

Thirdly, the problem in Binary Helix's labs has nothing to do with the fact that you are talking to an omnicidal war criminal. The crazed children were all Saren's doing but it is not about their crimes, it is about hers.

She's not a war criminal. The rachni queen was hatched from an egg found in a derelict vessel and has spent her entire life in captivity at the point to reach her in Noveria, whatever crimes her ancestors committed are not her responsibility.

There are valid and defensible positions arguing that her destruction is justified for either practical or moral reasons, the assertion that she is a criminal however is disingenous.

silentassassin264 wrote...

Fourth, who cares about her defense about trying to take over the galaxy? If you have a murderer who is trying desperately to escape, of course they are going to try and deflect the blame to seem innocent. You have no proof about the rachni being indoctrinated in the Rachni Wars other than the word of the murderer trying to escape. If that convinces you then you are incredibly naive and gullible. There is literally nothing stopping the Rachni queen from pleading innocence for you to pick the paragon option and then casting stasis on your whole party and impaling you all giving you a nonstandard game over like having sex with Morinth as she begins to build her army of vengeance on the galaxy. The only reason the paragon option is the "right" option is because you have metagamed and know in ME2 that it all turns out gravy for paragons.

The scientist you speak to before encountering her have already informed you that she was an unhatched egg at end of the genocidal war that drove the rachni to extinction and justified the uplifting of the krogan. Regardless of whether she is ruthless, evil or even genocidal she is not a murderer at the point you find her. You aren't even presented with the theory that her people were indoctrinated until the second game if you let her live and speak with her emissary on Illium.

A second reason to believe that the paragon option is the "right" option is the same reason I don't hold all Serbs responsible for the crimes of Ratko Mladic: there is no such thing as genetic guilt.

silentassassin264 wrote...

The practical option is to kill the queen because you put a whole lot on faith that the reincarnation of a murderous war queen is just going to keep her word and stay peaceful. Sure you could kill her because you are a violent sociopath but don't make up stuff like you have to have bloodlust to kill her when the Turian councilor's rebuke if you spare her has merit even if he is a jerk. If you let her go and she doesn't keep her word, with the Krogan sterilized (and unlikely to help the council again anyway) you have doomed the entire galaxy.

Killing her is a practical and rational choice, letting her go is a big risk, but the game provides no evidence that she is either a reincarnation, has a history of violence, or even has aggressive tendencies.

The game is silent on the question of nature vs nurture, so we may never know whether the games designers imagine the rachni to be genetically violent, were culturally indoctrinated towards their prior action or even if the really were indoctrinated back in the day.

[Eclipse_9990]

Anyone who "rescued" Morinth are just BEGGING for it to blow up in their face. In a violent, and horrible manner. I just cannot comprehend how anyone could genuinly think that was a good idea in anyway possible, and the excuses some people make for her.. Humans amaze me sometimes.

The fact that some people can seriously, and genuinly defend an admited, and unrepentent serial killer, who perverted an entire village, and made them sacrifice their young to her shows how hilariously messed up some people can be. Humanity never ceases to amaze, and entertain me. 

Oh, and the excuses some people give. "Everyone has a right to life, she didn't deserve to be locked up!".
Bull. Crap. She's an abomination, a creature who's whole purpose is to destroy, and consume. Nothing else. Hell when I think of Morinth I can't help but think of some creature out of an old horrific fairy tail.

She's the Baba Yaga of Mass Effect.

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 13 janvier 2012 - 10:28 .

[BatmanPWNS]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Anyone who "rescued" Morinth are just BEGGING for it to blow up in their face. In a violent, and horrible manner. I just cannot comprehend how anyone could genuinly think that was a good idea in anyway possible, and the excuses some people make for her.. Humans amaze me sometimes.

The fact that some people can seriously, and genuinly defend an admited, and unrepentent serial killer, who perverted an entire village, and made them sacrifice their young to her shows how hilariously messed up some people can be. Humanity never ceases to amaze, and entertain me. 

Oh, and the excuses some people give. "Everyone has a right to life, she didn't deserve to be locked up!".
Bull. Crap. She's an abomination, a creature who's whole purpose is to destroy, and consume. Nothing else. Hell when I think of Morinth I can't help but think of some creature out of an old horrific fairy tail.

She's the Baba Yaga of Mass Effect.

Just be grateful some of these people aren't really in command of anything because I fear they'd end up killing (or sacrificing) most of us.

[TMA LIVE]

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

[Eclipse_9990]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Just be grateful some of these people aren't really in command of anything because I fear they'd end up killing (or sacrificing) most of us.

Its like that little girl from Pans Labrinth. She has all these people warning her not to eat anything at the eyeless monsters table, and a whole bunch of scary ass pictures in the monsters lair warning her as well, but even so she still thinks its a good idea to eat the ****ing grape!

I am grateful that people like this don't survive long in the real world. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 13 janvier 2012 - 10:37 .

[AgentMrOrange]

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

[silentassassin264]

 Goneaviking, let us examine a though experiment here.  Lets say you create a robotic body and before you find a way to "digitize" your thoughts.  On your death bed you upload all your memories, experiences, and everything that makes you...you into that robotic body and then of course die.  The robotic body then awakes.  The question is, "Is the robotic body you?"  My answer is absolutely yes.  All we are is a collection of thoughts, experiences, and memories.  If that is moved to the bot and it starts living, it is essentially you moving yourself into another body.  The Rachni have a genetic memory that passes down to the next.  That means that those psychopathic omnicidal rachni memories, experiences, and thoughts transfered to that Rachni Queen.  She is the essence of those murderers transferred to a new body thus why I called it a reincarnation.

 If you disagree with the crux of my argument, that our thoughts, memories, and experience define us, then I am not going to convince you but I am not changing from my argument.  The problem with this is seeing as genetic memory and uploading brains is not actually in existence, it cannot be proved either way so you just have go with your interpretation of life.  Also, the Rachni queen nor philosophy really have to do with this.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 13 janvier 2012 - 10:47 .

[Eclipse_9990]

AgentMrOrange wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

https://encrypted-tb...4KklYf4SoqQwLN-

[Goneaviking]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Anyone who "rescued" Morinth are just BEGGING for it to blow up in their face. In a violent, and horrible manner. I just cannot comprehend how anyone could genuinly think that was a good idea in anyway possible, and the excuses some people make for her.. Humans amaze me sometimes.

The fact that some people can seriously, and genuinly defend an admited, and unrepentent serial killer, who perverted an entire village, and made them sacrifice their young to her shows how hilariously messed up some people can be. Humanity never ceases to amaze, and entertain me. 

Oh, and the excuses some people give. "Everyone has a right to life, she didn't deserve to be locked up!".
Bull. Crap. She's an abomination, a creature who's whole purpose is to destroy, and consume. Nothing else. Hell when I think of Morinth I can't help but think of some creature out of an old horrific fairy tail.

She's the Baba Yaga of Mass Effect.

Yes.

The permanent isolation is pretty crappy and I wouldn't blame her for escaping that treatment if she just went to ground and stayed celibate. There were good reasons for her to have made that choice given that it was the trail of corpses she left behind that kept leading Samara to find her daughter's location. But she didn't make that decision, she reveled in the hunt and enjoyed killing people who trusted her when they were at their most vulnerable.

Even the addiction argument is weak. People can overcome addiction if they're committed to it and if they work hard at it. Morinth makes it clear that it's not something she's interested in, indeed if she's given the chance she does kill the protagonist who really should know better.

[Eclipse_9990]

Goneaviking wrote...

Morinth makes it clear that it's not something she's interested in, indeed if she's given the chance she does kill the protagonist who really should know better.

In that case the protagonist rescued her in the first place. So I wouldn't put much stake in his/her overall intelligence.

PERFECT. VICTIM. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 13 janvier 2012 - 10:53 .

[AgentMrOrange]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

https://encrypted-tb...4KklYf4SoqQwLN-

 bye bye just means more space for me

[silentassassin264]

Samara said that just running away proved her addiction. If she had runaway and stayed celibate, Samara would still have hunted her down and killed her. Killing people through sex also made her stronger for the inevitable fight against her mom. Now since Samara is dead, she has no reason to sex murder people anymore except for the thrill. I considered her a victim before. If she does it again, she deserves to have her head asplode. Well unless the person deserved it like Vido Santiago or something.

[Eclipse_9990]

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

https://encrypted-tb...4KklYf4SoqQwLN-

 bye bye just means more space for me

Well now I'm staying just to spite you. 

[Izhalezan]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Samara said that just running away proved her addiction. If she had runaway and stayed celibate, Samara would still have hunted her down and killed her. Killing people through sex also made her stronger for the inevitable fight against her mom. Now since Samara is dead, she has no reason to sex murder people anymore except for the thrill. I considered her a victim before. If she does it again, she deserves to have her head asplode. Well unless the person deserved it like Vido Santiago or something.

You forgot the part where the effects of each kill are narcotic, she's addicted to the hunt, to the kill, she can't stop and she won't, Samara summed it up perfectly, she's a tragic figure but not a sympathetic one.

[AgentMrOrange]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

*snip*

 bye bye just means more space for me

Well now I'm staying just to spite you. 

YAY now we can carry on our lovely conversations 

[TMA LIVE]

AgentMrOrange wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

Not really. My self-insert paragade helps Samara kill her, because she's a unjust murderer. Though I would have prefer arresting her, locking her up. But Mass Effect barely allows that option.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 13 janvier 2012 - 11:02 .

[Eclipse_9990]

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

*snip*

 bye bye just means more space for me

Well now I'm staying just to spite you. 

YAY now we can carry on our lovely conversations 

Indeed. 

http://t2.gstatic.co...hixv7140hwOrXow

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 13 janvier 2012 - 11:04 .

[BatmanPWNS]

TMA LIVE wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

Not really. My self-insert paragade helps Samara kill her, because she's a unjust murderer. Though I would have prefer arresting her, locking her up. But Mass Effect barely allows that option.

I agree, how everything would be so simple if you could just lock someone up.

[AgentMrOrange]

we have options
1 mess up the mission
2 choose samara
3 choose morinth
any more and our brains might implode from to many choices

[Eclipse_9990]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

AgentMrOrange wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

My Renegon saved her because she saw her as being similar to herself, since she's a murderer living in the moment.

I do hope they do something with her besides a cameo.

you and me both i would love to help her free her sisters

Not really. My self-insert paragade helps Samara kill her, because she's a unjust murderer. Though I would have prefer arresting her, locking her up. But Mass Effect barely allows that option.

I agree, how everything would be so simple if you could just lock someone up.

But if you locked Morinth up she would just end up seducing the guard, and getting out anyway. 

[silentassassin264]

Izhalezan wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Samara said that just running away proved her addiction. If she had runaway and stayed celibate, Samara would still have hunted her down and killed her. Killing people through sex also made her stronger for the inevitable fight against her mom. Now since Samara is dead, she has no reason to sex murder people anymore except for the thrill. I considered her a victim before. If she does it again, she deserves to have her head asplode. Well unless the person deserved it like Vido Santiago or something.

You forgot the part where the effects of each kill are narcotic, she's addicted to the hunt, to the kill, she can't stop and she won't, Samara summed it up perfectly, she's a tragic figure but not a sympathetic one.

Yeah that makes sense.  Never give her the chance to stop and say that she won't stop.  Other than the obviously not canon shmuck bait screw renegades nonstandard game over sex, you have nothing to go on.  And Samara was hellbent on killing her since she ranaway and admitted she would much rather see the world in black in white so if she was a reason to kill, she can do so unfettered.  Samara is incredibly biased and wouldn't bother to entertain the thought that she was the only reason Morinth was killing. 

Of course knowing that this is a renegade decision and the devs track record, I fully expect it to blow up in my one Shep who spared Morinth's face but until ME3 inevitably proves me wrong, she has been freed from her hunter and has no reason to continue killing.  I am giving her the opportunity to stop.  Everyone deserves one chance.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 13 janvier 2012 - 11:10 .