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The trouble with Morinth.


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#426
silentassassin264

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AgitatedLemon wrote...

1. Rewriting the heretic geth is absolutely nothing like Morinth. 1 is a group of synthetics who can be re-programmed to become neutral or peaceful. The other is a serial killer, has commited matricide, and will likely attempt to kill Shepard AGAIN. Nice troll attempt though.

2. You mean that same Rachni Queen that showed ZERO signs of hostility, and wasn't even alive during the Rechni Wars? That same Rachni Queen that THANKS YOU and PROMISES to be good on Illium? The same Rachni Queen that promises to help Shepard against "the coming darkness"? Or some other, total dick Rachni Queen? Another nice troll.

3. I've never saved the Council, I won't comment on that one.

1. Even Legion tells you that there is a non-zero probability that they could return to there old judgements.  Keep in mind that once assimilated to be "friendly" they will exchange runtimes.  You could end of with all the Geth going heretic on you.  So beg pardon if I don't find you convincing in the least.

2. Yes, the same Rachni Queen that has the genetic memory of all the omnicidal rachni in the past and have more than enough reason to lie to you and stab you in the back (possibly literally).   

#427
Eclipse_9990

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silentassassin264 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I am good at this. I am not trying to say Morinth is a saint. She has done horrible things and even reveled in it. She was given a bad circumstance where she was made the villain and made no effort to prove others wrong. She is an evil sociopathic serial killer. My point was she always had that circumstance and never had a choice to not have respond to it. By killing Samara and sparing her, I removed that circumstance so now she is given the chance to make choices in a new set of parameters. If she reaches the same conclusions then I will happily vent her head. However, I believe that she deserved a chance to make choices in a more desirable set of parameters.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

You are just hilarious. She had a choice, a comfortable life or seclusion, and celebacy, or... This. She won't make the choice to not kill. She has a boner for murder literally, and figuratively. Killing is her fetish, even if she's not using it to have sex. Have you checked out Morinths collections in her apartment, and what she mentions about them? 

The dueling swords? The chess pieces? These can give great insight about her motivations, and intentions. 
Also. If she reaches the same conclusion? So you're willing to risk some poor bastards life to see if she's ready to change? Like Asenza said. How many lives is Morinth worth in your opinion? 

Bold 1:So almost every single paragon is willing to give the heretic geth another chance to accept their conclusion (by force might I add) and they are trying to wipe out all organic life in the universe but all of a sudden giving an organic a new set of parameters and the choice to reach an acceptable conclusion is just bat**** insane.

Bold 2: How much is the rest of organic life worth that the heretics deserve another chance?  Was fair to risk everyone else lives by sparing the rachni Queen when she could have gone rogue once allowed to disappear off the map?  

Bold 3: Was it fair to risk all those lives in the Acturus fleet to save the Council that caused the whole problem by ignoring you in the first place when you could have ended up letting Sovereign bring all his buddies through the Citadel because you sacrificed the only fleet that could stop him?

Bold 4: I bet none of you bothered to question how much life was worth it before making a decision like that but all of a sudden it matters now because you hate Morinth.  If everyone else is given a chance when they clearly do not deserve it.

Bold 5: Morinth deserves one chance.



Bold 1. The scenario is VERY VERY different. Why? Because with the Geth we aren't really letting them choose for themself. We are brainwashing them

Which in my opinion that choice should have given us Renegade points of Paragon, because to be frank. Thats pretty damn evil. You aren't talking about brainwashing Morinth(though I would totally be up for that). You're talking about letting her choose for herself, and if she kills someone else only THEN will you kill her.

Which is ignorant, insane, asinine, and ridiculous. She has been killing, and loving it since before Shepards Grand mother was born. You think she's gonna stop now just because he says so? LOL, and even if she believes Shepard can stop her, all she has to do is wait till Shep croaks, then BAM.

A potentially millenia long killing spree just for her, all because some idiot human thought it was a good idea to help her. The Galaxy will remember Shepard not only as the one who stopped the Reapers, but as the dumb **** who let the insane ridiculously powerful(I mean she was Matriarch power level at her current state, imagine how powerful she would be when she BECOMES a Matriarch) serial killer loose on the Galaxy. Good 'ol Shep he/she always knew what was best for us. 

Bold 2: Like I said. Brain. Washed. They're like Legion now. They won't attack anyone unless someone provokes them. They won't actively go seeking trouble. 


Bold 3: Yup. It was fair. Why? Because the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few. And by that I mean the Alliance crew numbers were nothing compared to the destiny ascensions, plus the Council being alive is frankly the best option for everyone. Considering Shep is trying to unite all the species against a very real threat, even if those other species don't realize this until too late.  

Bold 4: Sure I have. I just explained my reasoning. Also you seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar. Just to let you know thats a sign that someones losing an argument. 

Bold 5: Nope. Also don't be surprised if Morinth rapes/kills Shep in his sleep in ME3. Oh, and some of the crew as well. I know Kelly will be the first to go. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 14 janvier 2012 - 02:37 .


#428
Medhia Nox

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@AgentMrOrange: I'm a little late - but a comment about Buddhism.

The legend of Siddhartha goes like this (and I paraphrase greatly) - Siddhartha was a prince and a prophet made a prediction that he would either 1) Be king of all the people of the Earth or 2) Be a great spiritual leader.

So - his daddy, just SO happy he was going to be "King of all the people of the Earth" - locked him away from all forms of suffering.

One day - Siddhartha sneaks out - sees all forms of suffering and leaves his vast riches behind and devotes his life to something called asceticism. Asceticism - long story short - is when you try to give up everything material. Siddhartha did this... nearly died - and learned how silly he was being.

He learned the mysteries of life and suffering - and struggled with whether or not he was supposed to teach it. In the end - of course - Buddhism was formed.

Originally - Buddhism (like Taoism) was "just" a philosophical view with analogues in the works of Confucius (read: The Analects) - and Aristotle (read: The Nichomachean Ethics) - there's plenty of others. By philosophy - I mean "A structured basis for living life well." 

The "religion" comes some time after - gods are added - styles of worship - etc. etc.

====

Do not confuse the religions of the Judeo-Christian triad (that would be Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) with the Eastern religions (or the animism of the New World natives - or the paganism that preceded monotheism)

Even Hinduism is very philosophical in its rendering.

====

Sorry, I know this was only a small point you were trying to make a few posts up - but Buddhism is, originally, a philosophy. ((and if you go down the rabbit hole a touch further - it's not even a philosophy - but, that's not relevant)).

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 14 janvier 2012 - 02:28 .


#429
AgitatedLemon

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silentassassin264 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

1. Rewriting the heretic geth is absolutely nothing like Morinth. 1 is a group of synthetics who can be re-programmed to become neutral or peaceful. The other is a serial killer, has commited matricide, and will likely attempt to kill Shepard AGAIN. Nice troll attempt though.

2. You mean that same Rachni Queen that showed ZERO signs of hostility, and wasn't even alive during the Rechni Wars? That same Rachni Queen that THANKS YOU and PROMISES to be good on Illium? The same Rachni Queen that promises to help Shepard against "the coming darkness"? Or some other, total dick Rachni Queen? Another nice troll.

3. I've never saved the Council, I won't comment on that one.

1. Even Legion tells you that there is a non-zero probability that they could return to there old judgements.  Keep in mind that once assimilated to be "friendly" they will exchange runtimes.  You could end of with all the Geth going heretic on you.  So beg pardon if I don't find you convincing in the least.

2. Yes, the same Rachni Queen that has the genetic memory of all the omnicidal rachni in the past and have more than enough reason to lie to you and stab you in the back (possibly literally).   


1. So the non-heretic geth can turn heretic on a whim? wut. Did you even do his loyalty mission?

2. I don't know if you're dense or deliberately missing the point.

#430
LOST SPARTANJLC

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To me unless Morinth had been rehabilitated and her condition fixed , their's no way any being should be let loose on earth or in the galaxy. It's like a serial killer telling you he had a bad child , people made fun and got the wrong end of everything.So when he got older he decides to kill people , and it's because of his childhood that he doesn't.

No normal being would go around killing someone because they had a bad childhood.Morinth is an addict she'd say anything to get the the next high and can't be trusted until she's jailed/given the proper help she needs or set free on planet with no intelligent life.

#431
silentassassin264

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Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Bold 1. The scenario is VERY VERY different. Why? Because with the Geth we aren't really letting them choose for themself. We are brainwashing them

Which in my opinion that choice should have given us Renegade points of Paragon, because to be frank. Thats pretty damn evil. You aren't talking about brainwashing Morinth(though I would totally be up for that). You're talking about letting her choose for herself, and if she kills someone else only THEN will you kill her.

Which is ignorant, insane, asinine, and ridiculous. She has been killing, and loving it since before Shepards Grand mother was born. You think she's gonna stop now just because he says so? LOL, and even if she believes Shepard can stop her, all she has to do is wait till Shep croaks, then BAM.

A potentially millenia long killing spree just for her, all because some idiot human thought it was a good idea to help her. The Galaxy will remember Shepard not only as the one who stopped the Reapers, but as the dumb **** who let the insane ridiculously powerful(I mean she was Matriarch power level at her current state, imagine how powerful she would be when she BECOMES a Matriarch) serial killer loose on the Galaxy. Good 'ol Shep he/she always knew what was best for us. 

Bold 2: Like I said. Brain. Washed. They're like Legion now. They won't attack anyone unless someone provokes them. They won't actively go seeking trouble. 


Bold 3: Yup. It was fair. Why? Because the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few. And by that I mean the Alliance crew numbers were nothing compared to the destiny ascensions, plus the Council being alive is frankly the best option for everyone. Considering Shep is trying to unite all the species against a very real threat, even if those other species don't realize this until too late.  

Bold 4: Sure I have. I just explained my reasoning. Also you seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar. Just to let you know thats a sign that someones losing an argument. 

Bold 5: Nope. Also don't be surprised if Morinth rapes/kills Shep in his sleep in ME3. Oh, and some of the crew as well. I know Kelly will be the first to go. 


1.  A not permanent brainwashing either.  They are not like Legion.  Legion and the true Geth came to their conclusion naturally with no corruption of their processing.  The reprogrammed Heretics had something change their programming to reach a certain conclusion.  As I said, Legion says that it is not guaranteed that they will not be able to go back to their old conclusion.  You are taking a leap of faith if you assume it is permanent when Legion says that it is not 100% guaranteed.  You are still giving serial killers a second chance as long as they accept your judgement.

2.  It is the same as one.  Why did you make two bullets?

3.  The needs of the few are the council.  What if the Acturus fleet took too much damage trying to rescue the Ascension and leaves then unable to take Sovereign down?  The many are everyone else in the galaxy who just screwed to save three idiots who caused the whole problem in the first place but not letting you go to Ilos before Saren.  Once again you proved my point.  You did not even factor in all the other lives at stake by your actions.

4. I am not hot under the collar.  I am used to internet debates.  

Now for another rant since I have time to spend since the Celtics are doing miserably.  It is psychologically proven that people are impressionable.  If you spend a childhood being called a thief, rat, scum, other criminal-esque names, you are far more likely to actually become a criminal.  A lot of domestic abuse is made possible because if a woman is called worthless, pathetic without him, etc. by an abusing boyfriend/husband they will actually take it in and not leave because they come to believe it.  Words have power and can change someone's psychology.  You hear the names used to describe Morinth simply for being an Ardat-Yakshi in the game.  Wasea calls her a filthy creature and her own mother calls her a disease to be purged.  There is a one hundred percent chance that that was not the first time she was insulted.  That is why I said before that choices cannot be held separate from circumstances.  Morinth's circumstance had people calling her a monster and derivatives of it for ages.  That is a bad circumstance to be making choices.  It is not surprising she became a monster when society kept on telling her she was one.  I pity someone in that situation; therefore, I feel justified in giving her a chance to make decisions/choices (well decision/choice, singular) outside of that baggage.  When you read the Shadowbroker logs, you can tell her sister were very much unhappy in their seclusion.  I cannot blame someone for resisting that.   

#432
LOST SPARTANJLC

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silentassassin264 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Bold 1. The scenario is VERY VERY different. Why? Because with the Geth we aren't really letting them choose for themself. We are brainwashing them

Which in my opinion that choice should have given us Renegade points of Paragon, because to be frank. Thats pretty damn evil. You aren't talking about brainwashing Morinth(though I would totally be up for that). You're talking about letting her choose for herself, and if she kills someone else only THEN will you kill her.

Which is ignorant, insane, asinine, and ridiculous. She has been killing, and loving it since before Shepards Grand mother was born. You think she's gonna stop now just because he says so? LOL, and even if she believes Shepard can stop her, all she has to do is wait till Shep croaks, then BAM.

A potentially millenia long killing spree just for her, all because some idiot human thought it was a good idea to help her. The Galaxy will remember Shepard not only as the one who stopped the Reapers, but as the dumb **** who let the insane ridiculously powerful(I mean she was Matriarch power level at her current state, imagine how powerful she would be when she BECOMES a Matriarch) serial killer loose on the Galaxy. Good 'ol Shep he/she always knew what was best for us. 

Bold 2: Like I said. Brain. Washed. They're like Legion now. They won't attack anyone unless someone provokes them. They won't actively go seeking trouble. 


Bold 3: Yup. It was fair. Why? Because the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few. And by that I mean the Alliance crew numbers were nothing compared to the destiny ascensions, plus the Council being alive is frankly the best option for everyone. Considering Shep is trying to unite all the species against a very real threat, even if those other species don't realize this until too late.  

Bold 4: Sure I have. I just explained my reasoning. Also you seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar. Just to let you know thats a sign that someones losing an argument. 

Bold 5: Nope. Also don't be surprised if Morinth rapes/kills Shep in his sleep in ME3. Oh, and some of the crew as well. I know Kelly will be the first to go. 


1.  A not permanent brainwashing either.  They are not like Legion.  Legion and the true Geth came to their conclusion naturally with no corruption of their processing.  The reprogrammed Heretics had something change their programming to reach a certain conclusion.  As I said, Legion says that it is not guaranteed that they will not be able to go back to their old conclusion.  You are taking a leap of faith if you assume it is permanent when Legion says that it is not 100% guaranteed.  You are still giving serial killers a second chance as long as they accept your judgement.

2.  It is the same as one.  Why did you make two bullets?

3.  The needs of the few are the council.  What if the Acturus fleet took too much damage trying to rescue the Ascension and leaves then unable to take Sovereign down?  The many are everyone else in the galaxy who just screwed to save three idiots who caused the whole problem in the first place but not letting you go to Ilos before Saren.  Once again you proved my point.  You did not even factor in all the other lives at stake by your actions.

4. I am not hot under the collar.  I am used to internet debates.  

Now for another rant since I have time to spend since the Celtics are doing miserably.  It is psychologically proven that people are impressionable.  If you spend a childhood being called a thief, rat, scum, other criminal-esque names, you are far more likely to actually become a criminal.  A lot of domestic abuse is made possible because if a woman is called worthless, pathetic without him, etc. by an abusing boyfriend/husband they will actually take it in and not leave because they come to believe it.  Words have power and can change someone's psychology.  You hear the names used to describe Morinth simply for being an Ardat-Yakshi in the game.  Wasea calls her a filthy creature and her own mother calls her a disease to be purged.  There is a one hundred percent chance that that was not the first time she was insulted.  That is why I said before that choices cannot be held separate from circumstances.  Morinth's circumstance had people calling her a monster and derivatives of it for ages.  That is a bad circumstance to be making choices.  It is not surprising she became a monster when society kept on telling her she was one.  I pity someone in that situation; therefore, I feel justified in giving her a chance to make decisions/choices (well decision/choice, singular) outside of that baggage.  When you read the Shadowbroker logs, you can tell her sister were very much unhappy in their seclusion.  I cannot blame someone for resisting that.   




Ok , the big thing here is no one should be going around killing people and having an addiction to  it(no matter what they been called , treated and or placed).You deserve a second chance if you have been cured or your condition fixed to were your ready to rejoin society. 

#433
Eclipse_9990

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silentassassin264 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Bold 1. The scenario is VERY VERY different. Why? Because with the Geth we aren't really letting them choose for themself. We are brainwashing them

Which in my opinion that choice should have given us Renegade points of Paragon, because to be frank. Thats pretty damn evil. You aren't talking about brainwashing Morinth(though I would totally be up for that). You're talking about letting her choose for herself, and if she kills someone else only THEN will you kill her.

Which is ignorant, insane, asinine, and ridiculous. She has been killing, and loving it since before Shepards Grand mother was born. You think she's gonna stop now just because he says so? LOL, and even if she believes Shepard can stop her, all she has to do is wait till Shep croaks, then BAM.

A potentially millenia long killing spree just for her, all because some idiot human thought it was a good idea to help her. The Galaxy will remember Shepard not only as the one who stopped the Reapers, but as the dumb **** who let the insane ridiculously powerful(I mean she was Matriarch power level at her current state, imagine how powerful she would be when she BECOMES a Matriarch) serial killer loose on the Galaxy. Good 'ol Shep he/she always knew what was best for us. 

Bold 2: Like I said. Brain. Washed. They're like Legion now. They won't attack anyone unless someone provokes them. They won't actively go seeking trouble. 


Bold 3: Yup. It was fair. Why? Because the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few. And by that I mean the Alliance crew numbers were nothing compared to the destiny ascensions, plus the Council being alive is frankly the best option for everyone. Considering Shep is trying to unite all the species against a very real threat, even if those other species don't realize this until too late.  

Bold 4: Sure I have. I just explained my reasoning. Also you seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar. Just to let you know thats a sign that someones losing an argument. 

Bold 5: Nope. Also don't be surprised if Morinth rapes/kills Shep in his sleep in ME3. Oh, and some of the crew as well. I know Kelly will be the first to go. 


1.  A not permanent brainwashing either.  They are not like Legion.  Legion and the true Geth came to their conclusion naturally with no corruption of their processing.  The reprogrammed Heretics had something change their programming to reach a certain conclusion.  As I said, Legion says that it is not guaranteed that they will not be able to go back to their old conclusion.  You are taking a leap of faith if you assume it is permanent when Legion says that it is not 100% guaranteed.  You are still giving serial killers a second chance as long as they accept your judgement.

2.  It is the same as one.  Why did you make two bullets?

3.  The needs of the few are the council.  What if the Acturus fleet took too much damage trying to rescue the Ascension and leaves then unable to take Sovereign down?  The many are everyone else in the galaxy who just screwed to save three idiots who caused the whole problem in the first place but not letting you go to Ilos before Saren.  Once again you proved my point.  You did not even factor in all the other lives at stake by your actions.

4. I am not hot under the collar.  I am used to internet debates.  

Now for another rant since I have time to spend since the Celtics are doing miserably.  It is psychologically proven that people are impressionable.  If you spend a childhood being called a thief, rat, scum, other criminal-esque names, you are far more likely to actually become a criminal.  A lot of domestic abuse is made possible because if a woman is called worthless, pathetic without him, etc. by an abusing boyfriend/husband they will actually take it in and not leave because they come to believe it.  Words have power and can change someone's psychology.  You hear the names used to describe Morinth simply for being an Ardat-Yakshi in the game.  Wasea calls her a filthy creature and her own mother calls her a disease to be purged.  There is a one hundred percent chance that that was not the first time she was insulted.  That is why I said before that choices cannot be held separate from circumstances.  Morinth's circumstance had people calling her a monster and derivatives of it for ages.  That is a bad circumstance to be making choices.  It is not surprising she became a monster when society kept on telling her she was one.  I pity someone in that situation; therefore, I feel justified in giving her a chance to make decisions/choices (well decision/choice, singular) outside of that baggage.  When you read the Shadowbroker logs, you can tell her sister were very much unhappy in their seclusion.  I cannot blame someone for resisting that.   




1. Meh. I need them to kill Reapers, and I haven't gotten any warnings that they'll go against me. If they have a problem in the future then killing Geth will be childsplay. 

2. I wouldn't mind. 

3. Your point would make sense if it did turn out like that, but it didn't. The council was saved, and humanity has the trust, and cooperation of most of the galaxy just because some fodder died. Frankly that result is worth more than any of the lives of the humans who died. Yeah I did. it was an acceptable risk. I don't care if they died. The Ascension was the most powerful ship there. If I have to sacrifice a few pawns to save a queen I'll do it, and I'll do it without hesitation. 

4(The Rant). Who cares if they were calling her out as the filthy creature she is? I don't.  The only thing that matters is that she did/does what she did/does. I don't give a crap if someone had a ****ty child hood, if they do something that warrents punishment then they should get that punishment.

I don't see the point in sympathizing with filth. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 14 janvier 2012 - 03:23 .


#434
silentassassin264

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Eclipse_9990 wrote...

I don't see the point in sympathizing with filth. 

Well since there is no way to possibly change your mind....off to play Skyrim.

Modifié par silentassassin264, 14 janvier 2012 - 03:27 .


#435
AgitatedLemon

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silentassassin264 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Bold 1. The scenario is VERY VERY different. Why? Because with the Geth we aren't really letting them choose for themself. We are brainwashing them

Which in my opinion that choice should have given us Renegade points of Paragon, because to be frank. Thats pretty damn evil. You aren't talking about brainwashing Morinth(though I would totally be up for that). You're talking about letting her choose for herself, and if she kills someone else only THEN will you kill her.

Which is ignorant, insane, asinine, and ridiculous. She has been killing, and loving it since before Shepards Grand mother was born. You think she's gonna stop now just because he says so? LOL, and even if she believes Shepard can stop her, all she has to do is wait till Shep croaks, then BAM.

A potentially millenia long killing spree just for her, all because some idiot human thought it was a good idea to help her. The Galaxy will remember Shepard not only as the one who stopped the Reapers, but as the dumb **** who let the insane ridiculously powerful(I mean she was Matriarch power level at her current state, imagine how powerful she would be when she BECOMES a Matriarch) serial killer loose on the Galaxy. Good 'ol Shep he/she always knew what was best for us. 

Bold 2: Like I said. Brain. Washed. They're like Legion now. They won't attack anyone unless someone provokes them. They won't actively go seeking trouble. 


Bold 3: Yup. It was fair. Why? Because the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few. And by that I mean the Alliance crew numbers were nothing compared to the destiny ascensions, plus the Council being alive is frankly the best option for everyone. Considering Shep is trying to unite all the species against a very real threat, even if those other species don't realize this until too late.  

Bold 4: Sure I have. I just explained my reasoning. Also you seem to be getting a bit hot under the collar. Just to let you know thats a sign that someones losing an argument. 

Bold 5: Nope. Also don't be surprised if Morinth rapes/kills Shep in his sleep in ME3. Oh, and some of the crew as well. I know Kelly will be the first to go. 


1.  A not permanent brainwashing either.  They are not like Legion.  Legion and the true Geth came to their conclusion naturally with no corruption of their processing.  The reprogrammed Heretics had something change their programming to reach a certain conclusion.  As I said, Legion says that it is not guaranteed that they will not be able to go back to their old conclusion.  You are taking a leap of faith if you assume it is permanent when Legion says that it is not 100% guaranteed.  You are still giving serial killers a second chance as long as they accept your judgement.

2.  It is the same as one.  Why did you make two bullets?

3.  The needs of the few are the council.  What if the Acturus fleet took too much damage trying to rescue the Ascension and leaves then unable to take Sovereign down?  The many are everyone else in the galaxy who just screwed to save three idiots who caused the whole problem in the first place but not letting you go to Ilos before Saren.  Once again you proved my point.  You did not even factor in all the other lives at stake by your actions.

4. I am not hot under the collar.  I am used to internet debates.  

Now for another rant since I have time to spend since the Celtics are doing miserably.  It is psychologically proven that people are impressionable.  If you spend a childhood being called a thief, rat, scum, other criminal-esque names, you are far more likely to actually become a criminal.  A lot of domestic abuse is made possible because if a woman is called worthless, pathetic without him, etc. by an abusing boyfriend/husband they will actually take it in and not leave because they come to believe it.  Words have power and can change someone's psychology.  You hear the names used to describe Morinth simply for being an Ardat-Yakshi in the game.  Wasea calls her a filthy creature and her own mother calls her a disease to be purged.  There is a one hundred percent chance that that was not the first time she was insulted.  That is why I said before that choices cannot be held separate from circumstances.  Morinth's circumstance had people calling her a monster and derivatives of it for ages.  That is a bad circumstance to be making choices.  It is not surprising she became a monster when society kept on telling her she was one.  I pity someone in that situation; therefore, I feel justified in giving her a chance to make decisions/choices (well decision/choice, singular) outside of that baggage.  When you read the Shadowbroker logs, you can tell her sister were very much unhappy in their seclusion.  I cannot blame someone for resisting that.   




You know nothing of the geth schism. I won't even bother.

#436
Eclipse_9990

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silentassassin264 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

I don't see the point in sympathizing with filth. 

Well since there is no way to possibly change your mind....off to play Skyrim.


Thank you for finally conceding defeat. 

#437
Goneaviking

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silentassassin264 wrote...

You would make a great point except for the fact that those things you chose can be taken from Goneaviking right now.  What if you lose your sense of taste or in the next 5 years or so they cure your migraines or lets say you win the lottery and no longer need your job.  Did you all of a sudden stop being Goneaviking because obstacles that you had to face are no longer there?  Certainly not.  Your opinions and approach to life might certainly change if you no longer could taste your favorite food or have chronic headachess but it is still you making those decision just with new parameters.


You're steering clear of the important stuff. If a downloaded copy of my personality has no biological imperatives can it truly be me? I'm not talking a change of situation, I'm talking fundamental changes in a beings nature. To quote myself "no longer has to eat or sleep, no longer gets pleasure from (or presumably the biological imprerative to seek) sexual gratification". Removing the fundamental laws of a beings existance isn't the same as winning the lottery or not being able to taste what you're eating.

As far a societal expectations.  What if you move from where you live now to somewhere else.  Would you have the same rights you have where you are now?  No.  Would you be able to vote?  Nope.  Would your marriage transfer?  Probably...  But I am pretty sure you get the point already.  Societal expectations can change for you now as Goneaviking if you just change country.  Does the fact that you would not necessarily get the same reaction and rights as you get now if you go to say Lagos, Nigeria, mean you are a different person if you went to Lagos, Nigeria?  Certainly not.  Once again, parameters have changed and expectation of you from those around you have changed this time instead of expectations you have of yourself but it is still you who would be adjusting to them.  You didn't all of a sudden become Nigerianviking just because expectations of you changed.


After transfering my identity into a robotic body it's place in society, and in the universe, is fundamentally and profoundly different from what I experience for myself as a human. It's not the same as moving to Africa, it's an entirely different existence.

Robovikings existence and self-awareness, the adaptations he would be required to make would leave an entity completely alien to and unrecognisable to myself.

Your summation is cute and sounds profound but I don't buy it.  I know that there are some people who do what they do no matter the circumstances but reducing Morinth down to that seems to be cutting out a lot.  Being hated, feared, and hunted because of something you are does not leave much choice to respond to.   If only choices in response to her circumstance was being arrested for possible future crimes and forfeiting her life or going on the run where people would be chasing her not because of what she has done but for what she is.  Killing people through sex was the only way she would gather enough biotic power to save her from say her mother.  That is why I said earlier that I was willing to give her that one chance to be free without Samara hunting her down.  Now she faces a real choice.  She can put what she did to survive behind her and be a productive member of society (well as productive as Asari get ba-dum-tish) or she can return to her ways and get her head vented by me.   Choices are not some abstract entities that are held separate from everything else in some aether.  Choices are intertwined to circumstances.  You can't disregard circumstance and analyze choices on their own.


Morinth had choices at every stage of her being, that they were often crappy choices doesn't erase her ability to affect her own life or make her own decisions. When she became aware that she was an Ardat-Yakshi she could have gone into seclusion where she would be no threat to anyone, that was the option taken by both her sisters. A lousy option but it was one that she could have taken.

Having escaped from potential seclusion and gone on the run she chose to start killing. She didn't have to do it, it was an option she chose. If she wasn't leaving a trail of corpses behind her then no one would have been able to find her, in fact no more than a handful of asari would have known she even existed. As intelligent as Morinth was if she'd chosen to live an abstinent she could have become virtually anything and never had her identity exposed.

Even if I were to accept the "had to kill to make her strong enough to fight Samara" logic, I would still be dumbfounded by the notion that her one life is somehow more valuable than all the thousands of lives she's destroyed in the last few centuries. I'd wonder how corrupting an entire town so that they offer up their pretty young things in sacrifice fits into the "it was that or death" argument because it seems pretty weak.

So yes, she's a serial killer. She chose to become a serial killer, maybe she wouldn't have been if she weren't a genetic mutation but it was never her only option. Morinth was never a victim, she was always choosing her own path and making her own decisions.

#438
Get Magna Carter

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silentassassin264 wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

1. Rewriting the heretic geth is absolutely nothing like Morinth. 1 is a group of synthetics who can be re-programmed to become neutral or peaceful. The other is a serial killer, has commited matricide, and will likely attempt to kill Shepard AGAIN. Nice troll attempt though.

2. You mean that same Rachni Queen that showed ZERO signs of hostility, and wasn't even alive during the Rechni Wars? That same Rachni Queen that THANKS YOU and PROMISES to be good on Illium? The same Rachni Queen that promises to help Shepard against "the coming darkness"? Or some other, total dick Rachni Queen? Another nice troll.

3. I've never saved the Council, I won't comment on that one.

1. Even Legion tells you that there is a non-zero probability that they could return to there old judgements.  Keep in mind that once assimilated to be "friendly" they will exchange runtimes.  You could end of with all the Geth going heretic on you.  So beg pardon if I don't find you convincing in the least.

2. Yes, the same Rachni Queen that has the genetic memory of all the omnicidal rachni in the past and have more than enough reason to lie to you and stab you in the back (possibly literally).   

It was my understanding that the Rachni wars were due to a combination of:
1) a bad first contact...(like the war when humans first met the Turians)
2) Rachni are raciually/culturally such that it was only possible to negotiate peace with were the queens but they were too isolated to talk to (and the Krogans who eventually reached them were not interested in talking)
3) possible interference from a Reaper (Harbinger?)

The new Rachni queen (who was not alive at the time of the war and has no responsibility for what happened) is more aware of the Citadel races and thus more capable of peaceful co-existence
There is no reason to believe she would (neccessarily) be hostile.
(Merely speculation of possibilities)

Morinth on the other hand is a compulsive serial killer who would go on murdering if allowed to live
(while Samara was merciless with criminals she would go to any lengths to protect an innocent).

As for the Heretic Geth...I wasn't comfortable with brainwashing and no guarantee it would take so I wiped them out 

#439
tjzsf

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I like how silentassassin pretty much responds to all the bad stuff Morinth did with "yes, she did that, but ignore it."

How many human murders is worth one Morinth? None. You only kill if >1 lives are at stake. This is something that's common to every culture with a decent sense of morals. It disturbs me somewhat that people actually think having a disability should exempt you from the negative consequences of bad choices you make..

#440
tjzsf

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Re threats posed by Grunt/Legion:
Legion - has no weapons. Given how Tali can hack geth with a flick of the omni-tool, and given the sheer numbers of geth you've punched to death with your bare hands since ME1, turning it on to ask it a few questions isn't exactly that big of a threat.
Grunt - ditto. "You know how many krogan I've killed before coming here?"

#441
Helena Tylena

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Personally, I've never found choosing Morinth to make sense in any way.

You have two people of pretty much equal strength. One is bound to you by a code that means everything to her, the other is a psychopath who has been lying and killing all across the galaxy for centuries.

I mean... *why* would you pick Morinth over Samara?

#442
Incognito JC

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I don't get why this thread has over ten thousand views.

Speaking of which I forgot to prepare a save with Morinth alive for ME3. Guess I will never find out.


Until it's up on Youtube.

#443
essarr71

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Incognito JC wrote...

I don't get why this thread has over ten thousand views.

Speaking of which I forgot to prepare a save with Morinth alive for ME3. Guess I will never find out.


Until it's up on Youtube.


Nah.. Im sure a save editor will be up fairly quickly after release.

#444
Kakistos_

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Helena Tylena wrote...

Personally, I've never found choosing Morinth to make sense in any way.

You have two people of pretty much equal strength. One is bound to you by a code that means everything to her, the other is a psychopath who has been lying and killing all across the galaxy for centuries.

I mean... *why* would you pick Morinth over Samara?

I agree that choosing Morinth makes little sense but I have never bought that Morinth gains metaphysical strength/power from killing people. In this Sci-Fi setting, that concept goes too far. Samara is older and is a trained Justicar. Morinth may be powerful but Samara would have won, else Morinth would not be running in fear of her.

#445
I_Jedi

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This is what I think about it:

Keep Samara, and she'll get mad because you blew up the Viper Nebula. She'll try to take you out when she finds you.

Keep Morinth, and she'll try to forcefully meld with you. You fight her in self-defense.

Keep both alive (fail or don't do the loyalty the mission), and Samara will revenge fight you. Morinth could fight you, but it is also likely she'd help for slaying Samara.

Both dead, no problems, except some angry justicars.

#446
Kakistos_

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Incognito JC wrote...

I don't get why this thread has over ten thousand views.

Speaking of which I forgot to prepare a save with Morinth alive for ME3. Guess I will never find out.


Until it's up on Youtube.

Because this is huge speculation. Both Morinth and Samara could potentially and drastically change ME3 regarding you treatment of thm in ME2. Or at least they should considering the reverance and loathing they respectively hold among the Asari, who will undoubtedly be an important part of ME3. The characters are cool besides.

#447
Peer of the Empire

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While all that is true in the OP, a commanding and masterful Shephard can retain control of the situation, and it will be no big deal bro.  Shephard can kill Morinth if he has to.

#448
Mel M

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Gabey5 wrote...

the asari won't care... THE FREAKIN GALAXY IS BEING INVADED.

priorities man


This.

It's known that the asari military isn't nearly as numerous as the rest of the galaxy, although it is known that per individual, they are known as the greatest fighers in the galaxy as well.

To waste already limited resources on Shep in the middle of a huge Reaper invasion makes absolutely no sense at all.

I mean... didn't his "mass murder" trial get indefinitely suspended anyway.