50 réponses à ce sujet

[I2edShift]

Idk man, Squad Cryo seems like it would take a bit of the fun out of the games gun-play for me.. Freezing enemies all over the place lol. I'll give it a shot though for sure once i get to that point.. I've been insanely busy with work lately so havent been able to post. Have been reading everyone's replies though..

Updated/edited the OP..

Still a bit conflicted with my Bonus power...Stasis just seems horribly broken and would make the games larger fights almost pointless such as 2 YMIR mechs. But Flashbangs, Stasis, Slam, or Reave are all great powers & have there uses. Though Reave is probably the weakest of these 4.

For armor.. I personally go with what looks best.. No, it's not optimization.. But I don't really care to much for FULL Kaelstral armor.. So I roll with the Re-breather Helmet, Shield Harness, bonus ammo legs/arms, and Kaelstral Shoulders. 20% more ammo Is pretty sweet.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Well, the Stasis 'trick' to one-shot anything is an unintended bug/exploit. Even if BW won't do anything about patching prior game issues, you can count on that not being around for ME3. Beyond that, I don't really see it as 'broken' you still have to fight the stasis'd enemy, just let's you have greater breathing room.

[Crackseed]

Well remember you do have to strip their defenses though so that's a fair amount of setup to get freezy pops all over the place unless you're dealing with Husks, which is where I imagine having the freeze crossfire is most handy.

Modifié par crackseed, 14 juin 2011 - 07:53 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Well, the Stasis 'trick' to one-shot anything is an unintended bug/exploit. Even if BW won't do anything about patching prior game issues, you can count on that not being around for ME3. Beyond that, I don't really see it as 'broken' you still have to fight the stasis'd enemy, just let's you have greater breathing room.

I agree. When you factor things like the Mattock and GPS into the picture, I don't think it's really fair to rip on Stasis too much for being too strong.

The ~8x bonus from Stasis' 'Fall of Death' may / may not get taken out for ME3, but the power would still be extremely powerful with just the regular ragdoll bonus. I don't expect it to fade away as a dominant power come ME3.

[I2edShift]

Yeah, Husks are a bit of a pain for the weapons I carry simply because of there numbers. Not that there difficult by any means, just inconvenient & consume allot of ammunition. Being able to simply throw a flashbang & wipe out several of them would solve one of my biggest/only hiccups I've had so far in combat. The rest has been a cakewalk with the Mattock & Widow + AR + Ammo power of choice.

Unless I run into serioius problems on my Insanity run, (which i very much doubt) I'll stay away from Stasis. Just my preference... And Husks get on my nervers. lol

[termokanden]

Well Squad Cryo Ammo is great against husks. A point I have been trying to make before.

Anyway I don´t quite understand the point of this thread. You ask for optimization and then decide the suggestions are too powerful and that you go for what looks good, or that it´s silly if things freeze too much.

The really short version is that you can´t go horribly wrong with a soldier if you just max Adrenaline Rush.

Modifié par termokanden, 14 juin 2011 - 10:12 .

[Crackseed]

Yeah, the one problem with my Imp Flashbang build is that it lacks a bit more against Husk rushes since I don't have as much control CC with either ammo or powers. I don't have much trouble really but I think I will try a 1 point Flashbang/Squad Cyro run.

[I2edShift]

termokanden wrote...

Well Squad Cryo Ammo is great against husks. A point I have been trying to make before.

Anyway I don´t quite understand the point of this thread. You ask for optimization and then decide the suggestions are too powerful and that you go for what looks good, or that it´s silly if things freeze too much.

The really short version is that you can´t go horribly wrong with a soldier if you just max Adrenaline Rush.

Lets see.. From the OP...

I2edShift wrote...

With the goal of dropping targets as
efficiently as possible while adding as much utility/versatility as
possible & maximising the effectiveness of your squad..

I don't quite understand the point of your post. All of the posts have been directed towards the topic at hand. Points are made and discussed. New ones are brought up. Excluding the handful of YMIR mechs, Pretorians, and a select few "Boss'es" the Mattock/Widow + Heightened AR + Inferno Ammo + Headshot downs anything in this game soo quickly that Stasis is practically not even needed IMO. Again, I'd like to have a skill that can be useful throuight the game that either covers a weak point of the build, (such as crowd control or Biotic barreirs for example.) and not to just make the games more difficult encounters laughably easy.

It's common knowledge that Kaelstral armor > All for quite a few builds. Armor doesn't have THAT drastic of a impact on the game. Having a cool-looking character with 20% more ammo is nice as it lets me use my chosen/favored weapons more freely and I enjoy the games many cutscenes & conversation sequences more because I actually LIKE the way my character looks.. I thought it was common knowledge that most people go for what they like best aesthetically.

[ezrafetch]

I2edShift wrote...

I don't quite understand the point of your post. All of the posts have been directed towards the topic at hand. Points are made and discussed. New ones are brought up. Excluding the handful of YMIR mechs, Pretorians, and a select few "Boss'es" the Mattock/Widow + Heightened AR + Inferno Ammo + Headshot downs anything in this game soo quickly that Stasis is practically not even needed IMO. Again, I'd like to have a skill that can be useful throuight the game that either covers a weak point of the build, (such as crowd control or Biotic barreirs for example.) and not to just make the games more difficult encounters laughably easy.

Isn't the point of optimization to make things as laughably easy as possible? I think that's what termo is getting at and I completely agree. I'm not a fan of Stasis on Soldiers (nothing longer than 3s cooldown for me), but it certainly will make some encounters so lop-sided that respec-ing for mission optimization is necessary.

Back to the thread, to me Flashbangs are not optimization, they're a CC power and thus slow down your combat speed rather than keep it as efficient as possible. If anything, the best bet is still Squad Cryo because frozen enemies take a damage bonus which can certainly come in handy. Built in CC plus a damage boost. What more can you ask for?  Also, for Husk combat, it may not be as efficient as, say, unloading with a gun, but under AR you can fistfight Husks and down one or two of them per AR cycle. Saves ammo, plus it's hilarious

It's common knowledge that Kaelstral armor > All for quite a few builds. Armor doesn't have THAT drastic of a impact on the game. Having a cool-looking character with 20% more ammo is nice as it lets me use my chosen/favored weapons more freely and I enjoy the games many cutscenes & conversation sequences more because I actually LIKE the way my character looks.. I thought it was common knowledge that most people go for what they like best aesthetically.

Yes, most people go with what they like aesthetically, but once again, it's not optimization which seems to be the aim of the thread. That being said, I agree armor loadout makes little difference that it really doesn't drastically affect your game, but you may notice sometimes. I personally stack Kestrel with the Headshot Visor piece since I almost always get/go for Widow headshots...if I use the Recon Hood, I sometimes notice the missing 5% off of a headshot.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Stasis adds a lot of versatility.. but if OP insists, there are other powers that can net you *similar* performance.

As a Soldier vs. Husks, I've found that the fastest way to kill them is to use your weapons to strip their armor and then have your squadmates kill them. For this, Flashbang will actually slow your Shepard down, since you have to aim it, throw it, then wait for it to blow... and this is AFTER you've stripped their armor. This is MUCH slower than Inferno Ammo + Mattock/Revenant followed with a Squadmate's Pull Field/Flashbang/Full Cryo Blast/etc. Just FYI.

Basically, the most 'optimal' way to use Flashbangs is to bring Kasumi. Hers is faster and more reliable than Sheppard's overall, even with the longer cooldown.

termokanden is right about Squad Cryo btw. As I stated before, it's faster for a Soldier to have squaddies kill Husks. Give them Cryo, give yourself Inferno and you'll practically be wading through a pool of ice during the Husk sequences. In fact, the devs. themselves have stated that Squad Cryo is overall the most versatile ammo power, b/c it works on most everything equally well. I wouldn't discount it.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 15 juin 2011 - 03:51 .

[termokanden]

I2edShift wrote...

I don't quite understand the point of your post. All of the posts have been directed towards the topic at hand. Points are made and discussed. New ones are brought up. Excluding the handful of YMIR mechs, Pretorians, and a select few "Boss'es" the Mattock/Widow + Heightened AR + Inferno Ammo + Headshot downs anything in this game soo quickly that Stasis is practically not even needed IMO. Again, I'd like to have a skill that can be useful throuight the game that either covers a weak point of the build, (such as crowd control or Biotic barreirs for example.) and not to just make the games more difficult encounters laughably easy.

You ask for optimization. Then you complain that Stasis makes some fights too easy. That´s exactly what your were asking for in the first place.

Anyway, if you grab Stasis for 1 point, you can max Squad Cryo if you want and still have a good bonus power. Stuff like Reave I find to be of limited use on a soldier who can normally do a lot more damage by just shooting with AR.

It´s true that Stasis is not universally useful. But really it´s pretty much the only power that actually beats Adrenaline Rush at least some of the time. What other powers have we talked about? Reave, Barrier, Flashbang. Those are all more situational than Stasis and far less powerful in my opinion.

Why are they situational you ask? Well, most of the time you would do more damge with weapons than with Reave so why waste the cooldown? Barrier isn´t necessary unless you get yourself in trouble, and then it has a huge cooldown, so you would not want to use it too much. Flashbang is a fun power, but it´s both somewhat bugged and in my experience not really all that useful on Insanity.

Modifié par termokanden, 15 juin 2011 - 04:47 .

[Alamar2078]

I don't know if I would dogpile a guy that wanted to be "efficient" but didn't want to use potentially bugged skills like Stasis.

Even on a Mattock/Widow/GPS headshotting Soldier there are times where I think Stasis can be useful. For example maybe you want to freeze a Krogan or YMIR, take out his buddies at your own pace, then come back to the frozen enemy at your convenience.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I guess Area Reave could work, if you use it like a AR Infiltrator might. Still, that Infiltrator build used Area Reave as a substitute for ARush (life drain to compensate for innate lack of health, damage reduction bonuses)... That Infiltrator build also relied heavily on Squad Cyro ammo...

Really, ARush would almost always be better on a Soldier.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 15 juin 2011 - 08:28 .

[jamesp81]

Couple of ways to play a soldier.

With Widow as my bonus weapon:

Heightened AR (10)
Commando (10)
Squad Disruptor Ammo (10)
Inferno Ammo (10)
Concussive Shot (1)
Bonus power (10)

For a Widow soldier, energy drain and Reave make good bonus powers.  So does Warp Ammo for fighting Collectors; it's anti barrier properties can enhance your weapons vs barriers without eating into cooldowns best used for AR to line up shots with the Widow.

For a Revenant Soldier:

Heightened AR (10)
Commando (10)
Squad Disruptor Ammo (10)
Inferno Ammo (10)
Heavy Concussive Shot (10)
Bonus power: Geth Shield Boost (1), or Energy Drain (1)

AR is not quite as devastating combined with the Revenant as it is with the Widow, but it's still important. Heavy CS for barrier reduction in conjunction with squadmate powers, and 1 pt GSB or Energy Drain as an occasional panic button. The key to making the Revenant work is to put as much lead downrange as fast as possible. A shield restoring ability can be situationally useful when continuing to lay constant fire could mean the difference between winning and being overrun. Energy Drain is better here as long as you're facing shielded opponents.

An alternative here to is go 10 points in GSB or Energy Drain, and 1 point in CS, relying on squad powers to defeat barriers.  Samara's Reave power and Miranda's Warp power are very good for this.

Modifié par jamesp81, 15 juin 2011 - 10:07 .

[termokanden]

Dogpile? I wasn't being aggressive at all, just trying tp point out that you have to be clear about what your question is (something my old advisor taught me again and again, probably wasn't intentional though). Read more than the first line and you'll realize I spent most of my post trying to argue why Stasis is a good choice.

By the way, I do not even assume you use the bug. Simply freezing someone through defenses is unique and useful on insanity. And I don't really think other bonus powers are valuable at all except for very rare cases. For other classes yeah, but not for a soldier with a decent aim.

Modifié par termokanden, 15 juin 2011 - 10:10 .

[I2edShift]

ezrafetch wrote...

Yes, most people go with what they like
aesthetically, but once again, it's not optimization which seems to be
the aim of the thread. That being said, I agree armor loadout makes
little difference that it really doesn't drastically affect your game, but
you may notice sometimes. I personally stack Kestrel with the Headshot
Visor piece since I almost always get/go for Widow headshots...if I use
the Recon Hood, I sometimes notice the missing 5% off of a headshot.

I purposely left out armor choices from the OP. I even indirectly awknowledge the fact that Kaelstral Armor is the go-to set for optimization. I figured that was enough. Skill, weapon, & Party optimization is the thread topic. Nowhere is armor mentioned until a posters reply.

termokanden wrote...

You ask for optimization. Then you complain that Stasis makes some fights too easy. That´s exactly what your were asking for in the first place.

Anyway, if you grab Stasis for 1 point, you can max Squad Cryo if you want and still have a good bonus power. Stuff like Reave I find to be of limited use on a soldier who can normally do a lot more damage by just shooting with AR.

It´s true that Stasis is not universally useful. But really it´s pretty much the only power that actually beats Adrenaline Rush at least some of the time. What other powers have we talked about? Reave, Barrier, Flashbang. Those are all more situational than Stasis and far less powerful in my opinion.

Why are they situational you ask? Well, most of the time you would do more damge with weapons than with Reave so why waste the cooldown? Barrier isn´t necessary unless you get yourself in trouble, and then it has a huge cooldown, so you would not want to use it too much. Flashbang is a fun power, but it´s both somewhat bugged and in my experience not really all that useful on Insanity.

I've taken the Stasis argument into consideration as it's been brought up since the beginning of this thread. But please re-read the topic sentence I quoted for you earlier. This is not JUST a "kill-every-thing-as-fast-as-possible- kekekekekekgogogo" thread. Versatility is important and being able to deal with every eventuality seamlessly & effectivly matters as well..

LONG story short, if Squad Cryo is indeed a better power for CC, Husks, and in general than Improved Bangs'. Then I'll scrap the Flashes & go squad cryo. Which would mean either sacrificing Concussive shot for a 1-point-wonder bonus power or sticking with the tremendously valuable & versatile CS... /sarcasm.

Now that we've collectivly agreed on weapon choice & the majority of the skills.. Instead of questioning my choice in skills or armor.. Or discussing what "Optimization" really is.. Let me shift this conversation in the direction I was more or less intending.

The Question:

Given the weapons in the OP, and the following skill build.. How would you place your remaining skill points to best deal with collectors, husks & crowd control, and Biotic barriers in general?

Heightened AR
Concussive Shot - No points yet
Squad Disruptor
Inferno Ammo
Cryo Ammo - No points yet
Commando
Bonus Talent - No points yet.

P.S. Not trolling or being an ass. Just direct.

Modifié par I2edShift, 15 juin 2011 - 10:45 .

[Aimi]

I2edShift wrote...


The Question:

Given the weapons in the OP, and the following skill build.. How would you place your remaining skill points to best deal with collectors, husks & crowd control, and Biotic barriers in general?

Heightened AR
Concussive Shot - No points yet
Squad Disruptor
Inferno Ammo
Cryo Ammo - No points yet
Commando
Bonus Talent - No points yet.

P.S. Not trolling or being an ass. Just direct.

Depends on the bonus talent.  If you get Warp Ammo, pick the Squad version and dump a point into Concussive Shot.  (No real reason.  Concussive Shot sucks and you oughtn't use it at all.  But a single point of Cryo Ammo is worse - Concussive Shot might conceivably potentially ish be used as a last resort backup on a husk mission.)  If you pick Stasis, dump a point into that and get Squad Cryo Ammo.

The Warp Ammo build gives you the ability to OHOK Collectors without researching a bunch of sniper rifle upgrades, while the Stasis build makes you much better able to do CC (both Stasis and Squad Cryo Ammo are top-notch CC powers) and makes fighting YMIR mechs much more easy (something important for the Widow/Mattock Soldier).  My advice is to start with the Warp Ammo build so you can use it on Horizon, then re-spec to the Stasis build for every other mission except for Samara's recruitment and the Collector missions.

Pretty much every other suggestion for bonus powers is irrelevant as far as min-maxing goes.  Shepard's Flashbangs suck (take too long, and you have to learn how to throw them).  Slam and Reave waste too much cooldown for the amount of damage they deal (even if you exclusively use Slam to set up Warp bombs).  Active powers take cooldown away from Adrenaline Rush, which is prima facie bad if you're focusing on a pure damage-dealing build.  Only Stasis is worth wasting a cooldown, to be honest, and you're not just getting Stasis - you're getting the valuable passive Squad Cryo Ammo along with it.

[turian councilor Knockout]

Warp ammo are completely wasted on a Soldier since they have disruptor ammo and inciendiary, Concussive shot is far from useless because it can insta kill husk after their armor is stripped and is very good vs Praetorian,enemy Vanguard, collectors and other enemies with barrier.

My tip is:
Max Adrenaline rush
Disruptor ammo
Inciendiary
Concussive shot
Passive and spend the rest freely
This is what works best for me but you maybe prefer another power setup so try different setups.
BTW, don't waste points on bonus power other than those two who are left after you already spent 50 points.

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 16 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I2edShift wrote...
The Question:[/b][/i][/u]

Given the weapons in the OP, and the following skill build.. How would you place your remaining skill points to best deal with collectors, husks & crowd control, and Biotic barriers in general?

Heightened AR
Concussive Shot - No points yet
Squad Disruptor
Inferno Ammo
Cryo Ammo - No points yet
Commando
Bonus Talent - No points yet.

P.S. Not trolling or being an ass. Just direct.

Thx for clarifiying things, although a lot of earlier advice is still valid.

Working from what you've got, I'd set it up like this:

Heightened AR
Concussive Shot - No points
Squad Disruptor
Inferno Ammo
Cryo Ammo - Squad Cryo Ammo
Commando
Bonus Talent - Slam - 1 pt

It's a shame you don't like Stasis. The above build will let you breeze past Husks quite easily, but you'll have to use weapons and squaddies to strip barriers. Slam gives you a lot of flexibility: you can stagger, warp bomb, cc, and instakill with it, though you'll need to strip protections first. Hate to bring it up again, but Stasis would save you a whole step. Still, you'll find that this build will be highly versatile and powerful (I think like, 90% of Soldier players use this basic build anyway).

With Soldier being Soldier, you'll want to stack your squad powers against whoever you're facing, while you provide the shooting and weapon buffs (hence Ammo Powers). Against Collectors/Reapers, your best choices are Samara, Kasumi*, Thane, Miranda, Mordin**, & Jack. Of these, the first three are the strongest and the latter are the weakest imo (for Soldiers). Mix and match as needed.


* Kasumi's Flashbang shuts down all Collector/Reapers except for the Praetorian and Arnold.
** Mordin is very strong vs Husks and Scions, but mediocre vs everyone else

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 16 juin 2011 - 01:40 .

[nicethugbert]

You can always rebuild your Shepard just before the mission if you have that upgrade. So, you can optimize for each mission if you know what to expect.

I'm inclined to go with Squad Warp Ammo over Inferno Ammo for Collector missions because it gives a bonus no matter what protections they have. It's all bonus all the time for the whole party. Then you just focus on ARush and weapon switching and party powers.

Also, since a soldier has such a short cool down on ARush and ARush is your always must use power and soldier's are so focused on their weapons, I would max Ammo powers, Commando, and ARush first and dump points in whatever else.

Cryo Ammo doesn't seem that useful to me because you have to strip defenses first. Once defenses are gone then the enemy is a shot or three away from non-existence and I'm onto the next target, soon to ARush again. I'd rather let Mordin handle cryo and incinerate while I handle the ammo.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Warp Ammo isn't worth losing another bonus power for, imo. I'd just bring Jack along if I'm fighting Collectors and want Warp Ammo. There's no point to choose one over another when you can have both in equal measure.

Squad Cryo doesn't do much on Shepard alone, but if you put on the squad (especially while Shep keeps Inferno Ammo), you will see a BIG difference on the field. Squad Cryo isn't really for boosting Shepard, it's for the rest of the squad. Besides, why have Mordin Incinerate AND Cryo, when he can just spam Incinerate? YMMV I guess.

[nicethugbert]

Those are good points. There is more than one way to play.

My point is that I'm too busy with ARush and it's 3 second cool down to bother with Slam or Stasis on my Shepard. I can use my squad for the other stuff, except on Arrival and a part of Overlord.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

This is true. You absolutely do not need a BP with a Soldier - its innate ammo powers give all the cc & buffs you need, while not interfering with ARush. However, stuff like Slam, NS and Stasis are viable only because they give a pretty dramatic ability and are generally miserly enough not to severely cut into ARush time or eat up too many skill points.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 20 juin 2011 - 01:41 .

[nocbl2]

I would take Tali and Garrus on Geth/mech missions.

Also, Squad disruptor never seemed too useful to me... Inferno is just as good at knocking down machines as it is with humans. Grunt is also another fav squaddie , since he has a ridiculous health bar which can allow for uber YMIR pwnage.

[nicethugbert]

I would rather use Mirand
a for slam. I can usually ARush two that way.