361 réponses à ce sujet

[Clover Rider]

Aradace wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aradace wrote...

rabidhanar wrote...

some might disagree with that opinon Some Geth...
Pointless is debatable. Some cultures have different laws or customs depending on race.

In an ideal universe, everyone gets along while holding hands and sitting around a camp fire while singing Kumbah-frickin-yaa lol.  Personally, Im not for racism or against it.  I dont hate the batarians because of their race, I hate them because of their government.  Also, to clarify, the term "racism" is often misused.  Racism is typically described as having hatred for all races other than ones own.  Where as Prejudice (think I spelled that right? lol) is often described as hating/disliking one or a few. 

People who disagree with the fact/my opinion that being racist is pointless are foolish just try to show me that I am wrong.

Oh and if you hate their government that's fine and all but to want the race to all die because of said government? that is also foolish.

You're perfectly capable of having that opinion and I understand where you're coming from.  I dont agree with you, but I understand it.  Diplomacy is great....when it works.   Sometimes, diplomacy isnt the answer.  Only an optimistic, idealistic and naive child believes that diplomacy can solve everything.  

When did I say anything about Diplomacy? I said wanting to kill a race for no good reason like being racist or hating their government is stupid and pointless, and that in my view is more that just an opinion it's a fact.<_<

[Faerlyte]

Racism at its most basic level is defined as hatred or intolerance for another race, or races. So, hating people because of their government is just as racist as hating a people because they look different. It's all in the same vein of justifying yourself as being better (morally or otherwise) than someone else based on some arbitrary determination that because the government is corrupt, their appearances foreign or the culture is primitive to you, all their people are inferior.

Hate is a waste of time and energy. It serves no purpose. It doesn't undo what's been done and it doesn't change the people responsible.

This discussion is moot. There are good people in every corner of the world/Universe, just as well as there are bad. The good Batarian people that don't want to go to war with humans are going to be victimized by their own government. They don't deserve the hatred of humankind any more than humankind deserves theirs.

Modifié par Faerlyte, 11 juin 2011 - 08:58 .

[Daddy Bags]

Welp, you kill around 300,000 of them during the Arrival DLC (which is what brings Shepard to Earth at the begining of ME3). I'm going to go out on a limb and say they will not be joining you in the fight against the Reapers. I think they'll join the Reapers or Cerberus and you'll just have to eradicate them.

[Clover Rider]

Faerlyte wrote...

Racism at its most basic level is defined as hatred or intolerance for another race, or races. So, hating people because of their government is just as racist as hating a people because they look different. It's all in the same vein of justifying yourself as being better (morally or otherwise) than someone else based on some arbitrary determination that because the government is corrupt, their appearances foreign or the culture is primitive to you, all their people are inferior.

Hate is a waste of time and energy. It serves no purpose. It doesn't undo what's been done and it doesn't change the people responsible.

This discussion is moot. There are good people in every corner of the world/Universe, just as well as there are bad. The good Batarian people that don't want to go to war with humans are going to be victimized by their own government. They don't deserve the hatred of humankind any more than humankind deserves theirs.

This one I like.

But anyway you are right.

Modifié par Some Geth, 11 juin 2011 - 09:03 .

[Sylvianus]

Agamo45 wrote...

They killed Shepard's parents, they attacked Elysium, they tried to destroy Terra Nova, they hit that colony in ME2 with nuclear missles. They're terrorist bastards.

For those  who haven't purchased the Dlc, they didn't try, they succedeed to destroy Terra Nova. 4 million dead ,  and the Alliance has never replied ...

That's why  I bought the dlc " Bring to the sky ", because without it, it's sucked...

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 juin 2011 - 09:05 .

[Schneidend]

For my Shep's part, batarian slavers killed his parents and everyone else he'd ever cared about on Mindoir. He's had a grudge against them since he was a kid. Obviously, he's matured since then, but the batarians have done little to improve their image. They fund pirates and slavers, provided support for the attack on Elysium, and that support allowed the pirates on Torfan to be that much more difficult to rout. The average batarian citizen isn't at fault for those things, but my Shep still seethes with fury every time he hears that nonsense about the Council not taking "the culturally sensitive option" on Omega's radio broadcasts. Slavery's not the issue so much as where those bastards GET their slaves.

[xI extremist Ix]

My colonist/ruthless Shepard loves to kill batarians. Any chance I get BLAM! STAB! Too bad there wasn't a way to enjoy killing 304,000 of them in Arrival. I had to sound sympathetic.

[xI extremist Ix]

Sylvianus wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

They killed Shepard's parents, they attacked Elysium, they tried to destroy Terra Nova, they hit that colony in ME2 with nuclear missles. They're terrorist bastards.

For those  who haven't purchased the Dlc, they didn't try, they succedeed to destroy Terra Nova. 4 million dead ,  and the Alliance has never replied ...

That's why  I bought the dlc " Bring to the sky ", because without it, it's sucked...

Incorrect. If you didn't play the Bringing Down the Sky DLC Balak was killed along with the hostages. There is no way to lose Terra Nova. The candle light vigil is for the hostages.

[Paula Deen]

Gee, OP, let's list the reasons:

1) Slavery is an integral part of their caste system. Their slavery consists of torture, brutality, abuse, CONTROL CHIPS IN THEIR BRAIN, which are implanted WITHOUT PAIN RELIEVERS. Prisoners are sold into slavery unless they are literally too dangerous.

2) They have quite a reputation for terror tactics. Think about that for a second.

3) The batarian government funds slaver and pirate groups, which focus on humanity.

4) Their government loves propaganda and Orwellian habits.

5) They have a CASTE system.

6) The ones with power tend to be arrogant and pretentious. Granted, that is a stereotype, but we have yet to see a single case which does not conform, in the books, comics, or games.

7) They tried to assassinate the Council under the pretense of opening up diplomatic relations.

I understand that there are probably a lot of decent or even good batarians out there. But on the whole, their species causes a LOT of problems and has a horrible and DESERVED reputation...which they seem to have no qualms with furthering time and time again.

[Pride Demon]

Steingrimur Steingrimsson wrote...

Because Bioware wants us to hate them. I think we've encounter, one, maybe two, reasonable Batarians? And I don't recall meeting anyone who isn't a thug, mercenary, terrorist or a racist. (I may be wrong, my memory is poor at best). I'd really like to get to know them better, that is why we must have a batarian squad mate!

That batarian Merchant on Omega that warns you about the black market seemed a pretty OK guy to me, in fact he is probably one of the nicest persons you meet that are native to Omega...

And in spite of being a mercenary, Salkie, from Garrus' recruitment seemed an honest fellow, depending on how you answer him he may even tell you he likes your attitude, but that may just be me...

[Sylvianus]

xI extremist Ix wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

They killed Shepard's parents, they attacked Elysium, they tried to destroy Terra Nova, they hit that colony in ME2 with nuclear missles. They're terrorist bastards.

For those  who haven't purchased the Dlc, they didn't try, they succedeed to destroy Terra Nova. 4 million dead ,  and the Alliance has never replied ...

That's why  I bought the dlc " Bring to the sky ", because without it, it's sucked...

Incorrect. If you didn't play the Bringing Down the Sky DLC Balak was killed along with the hostages. There is no way to lose Terra Nova. The candle light vigil is for the hostages.

No. I started M2 before M1. In M1, if you have played bring to the sky, they said what you did ( Balack alive or killed but attack on Terra Nova failed ) But if you start M2 without the dlc, the information says that Terra Nova is destroyed.

  By cons they don't explain why it was destroyed, indeed. Just a meteorite, nobody knows that it is terrorism. But Batarian terrorists still have managed their attack.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 juin 2011 - 09:29 .

[Paula Deen]

Faerlyte wrote...

Racism at its most basic level is defined as hatred or intolerance for another race, or races. So, hating people because of their government is just as racist as hating a people because they look different. It's all in the same vein of justifying yourself as being better (morally or otherwise) than someone else based on some arbitrary determination that because the government is corrupt, their appearances foreign or the culture is primitive to you, all their people are inferior.

Hate is a waste of time and energy. It serves no purpose. It doesn't undo what's been done and it doesn't change the people responsible.

This discussion is moot. There are good people in every corner of the world/Universe, just as well as there are bad. The good Batarian people that don't want to go to war with humans are going to be victimized by their own government. They don't deserve the hatred of humankind any more than humankind deserves theirs.

Fantastic post. However, I feel that pointing out the REASONS why people (in universe and meta-wise) hate them is not wrong.

[Aradace]

Daddy Bags wrote...

Welp, you kill around 300,000 of them during the Arrival DLC (which is what brings Shepard to Earth at the begining of ME3). I'm going to go out on a limb and say they will not be joining you in the fight against the Reapers. I think they'll join the Reapers or Cerberus and you'll just have to eradicate them.

Fine by me lol.  If they want to join Cerberus or the reapers against Shep, all the better.  Of course, the paragon players will be up in arms about that.  I honestly believe that if they had their way (not all paragon players but enough) the reaper invasion would be solved with love, peace, and harmony.  You know, typical hippy bs.  

Patton once said something to the effect of "Wars arent won by dying for your country, but by making the other SoB die for his"  that's probably not verbetim but its in the ballpark.  

The batarians as a whole have yet to give me a reason to NOT stereotype them and/or be prejudice against them.  And until they do, I will continue to think their entire way of life (ficticious as it is) is abhorable and that they deserve what they get.  There are quite a few countries that have that mentality of America (where I live).  And honestly, I understand why they think the way they do about us.  And yes, I believe that by doing nothing to remedy that "reputation" that we deserve to be judged by the actions of the majority that gave us that bad rep.

My point is, if I were a batarian, knowing what I know about my government.  I still have the same opinion that I do now.  Because if there are "good" batarians out there, they sure as **** arent actively trying to do anything about the bad rep they have.  Those that sit idly by and do nothing to remedy their rep, deserve to be judged along side those who are responsible for said reputation.

[Sylvianus]

Paula Deen wrote...

Faerlyte wrote...

Racism at its most basic level is defined as hatred or intolerance for another race, or races. So, hating people because of their government is just as racist as hating a people because they look different. It's all in the same vein of justifying yourself as being better (morally or otherwise) than someone else based on some arbitrary determination that because the government is corrupt, their appearances foreign or the culture is primitive to you, all their people are inferior.

Hate is a waste of time and energy. It serves no purpose. It doesn't undo what's been done and it doesn't change the people responsible.

This discussion is moot. There are good people in every corner of the world/Universe, just as well as there are bad. The good Batarian people that don't want to go to war with humans are going to be victimized by their own government. They don't deserve the hatred of humankind any more than humankind deserves theirs.

Fantastic post. However, I feel that pointing out the REASONS why people (in universe and meta-wise) hate them is not wrong.

An intellectual point of view that isn't always in line with reality. Once you know the state of war with another country, this country that threatens you, we'll see.

  must have suffered slavery to better understand how it's disgusting. And raise it as a feature of society is repugnant.

Especially as their slaves are humans, not Batarians and stranger  to their customs.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 juin 2011 - 09:57 .

[Clover Rider]

Aradace wrote...

Daddy Bags wrote...

Welp, you kill around 300,000 of them during the Arrival DLC (which is what brings Shepard to Earth at the begining of ME3). I'm going to go out on a limb and say they will not be joining you in the fight against the Reapers. I think they'll join the Reapers or Cerberus and you'll just have to eradicate them.

Fine by me lol.  If they want to join Cerberus or the reapers against Shep, all the better.  Of course, the paragon players will be up in arms about that.  I honestly believe that if they had their way (not all paragon players but enough) the reaper invasion would be solved with love, peace, and harmony.  You know, typical hippy bs.  

Patton once said something to the effect of "Wars arent won by dying for your country, but by making the other SoB die for his"  that's probably not verbetim but its in the ballpark.  

The batarians as a whole have yet to give me a reason to NOT stereotype them and/or be prejudice against them.  And until they do, I will continue to think their entire way of life (ficticious as it is) is abhorable and that they deserve what they get.  There are quite a few countries that have that mentality of America (where I live).  And honestly, I understand why they think the way they do about us.  And yes, I believe that by doing nothing to remedy that "reputation" that we deserve to be judged by the actions of the majority that gave us that bad rep.

My point is, if I were a batarian, knowing what I know about my government.  I still have the same opinion that I do now.  Because if there are "good" batarians out there, they sure as **** arent actively trying to do anything about the bad rep they have.  Those that sit idly by and do nothing to remedy their rep, deserve to be judged along side those who are responsible for said reputation.

Well being okay with killing a race(for the most stupid reasons) like you, does not make America or Americas look good.

Modifié par Some Geth, 11 juin 2011 - 09:47 .

[Halfdan The Menace]

You humans are all racists!

[Aradace]

Some Geth wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Daddy Bags wrote...

Welp, you kill around 300,000 of them during the Arrival DLC (which is what brings Shepard to Earth at the begining of ME3). I'm going to go out on a limb and say they will not be joining you in the fight against the Reapers. I think they'll join the Reapers or Cerberus and you'll just have to eradicate them.

Fine by me lol.  If they want to join Cerberus or the reapers against Shep, all the better.  Of course, the paragon players will be up in arms about that.  I honestly believe that if they had their way (not all paragon players but enough) the reaper invasion would be solved with love, peace, and harmony.  You know, typical hippy bs.  

Patton once said something to the effect of "Wars arent won by dying for your country, but by making the other SoB die for his"  that's probably not verbetim but its in the ballpark.  

The batarians as a whole have yet to give me a reason to NOT stereotype them and/or be prejudice against them.  And until they do, I will continue to think their entire way of life (ficticious as it is) is abhorable and that they deserve what they get.  There are quite a few countries that have that mentality of America (where I live).  And honestly, I understand why they think the way they do about us.  And yes, I believe that by doing nothing to remedy that "reputation" that we deserve to be judged by the actions of the majority that gave us that bad rep.

My point is, if I were a batarian, knowing what I know about my government.  I still have the same opinion that I do now.  Because if there are "good" batarians out there, they sure as **** arent actively trying to do anything about the bad rep they have.  Those that sit idly by and do nothing to remedy their rep, deserve to be judged along side those who are responsible for said reputation.

Well being okay with killing a race(for the most stupid reasons) like you, does not make America look good.

Did I claim that it did?  Did I not just say that we deserve to be judged as such?  You assume I place myself among the few that actually do something to remedy the reputation.  Im a realist.  I dont deal in naive ideals that everyone in the universe can get along.  This also applies to fictional worlds as well where I take on the role of a character.  If you want to be idealistic, that's your business.  But regardless of what you think of me or my PoV, Im going to stand behind it 110%.  


In leiu of that.  Let me put this question to you:  How would YOU solve the tensions between the Batarians and Humans eh?  I can almost bet that I can predict your response but you can go ahead and answer anyway because there's always that slight possibility I could be wrong.

Modifié par Aradace, 11 juin 2011 - 09:50 .

[Pride Demon]

Sylvianus wrote...

An intellectual point of view that isn't always in line with reality. Once you know the state of war with another country, this country that threatens you, we'll see.

  must have suffered slavery to better understand how it's disgusting. And raise it as a feature of society is repugnant.

Especially as their slaves are humans, not Batarians and alien to their customs.

I agree with you...
Just a precisation: Batarians DO enslave other Batarians, the slave caste existed well before they invented spaceflight, as it's part of their culture...

Not all Batarian agree to this caste system though: during the Anhur rebellions, the Na'hesit "pro slavery" faction was mainly composed of Batarians (with a few humans), but the "anti slavery" faction that eventually won the war (with military help from Eclipse) had Batarians in it too; and in fact, Anhur is still a mixed batarian/human world: had all the Batarians been slavers they would have all been expelled by now...

[Sylvianus]

Pride Demon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

An intellectual point of view that isn't always in line with reality. Once you know the state of war with another country, this country that threatens you, we'll see.

  must have suffered slavery to better understand how it's disgusting. And raise it as a feature of society is repugnant.

Especially as their slaves are humans, not Batarians and alien to their customs.

I agree with you...
Just a precisation: Batarians DO enslave other Batarians, the slave caste existed well before they invented spaceflight, as it's part of their culture...

Not all Batarian agree to this caste system though: during the Anhur rebellions, the Na'hesit "pro slavery" faction was mainly composed of Batarians (with a few humans), but the "anti slavery" faction that eventually won the war (with military help from Eclipse) had Batarians in it too; and in fact, Anhur is still a mixed batarian/human world: had all the Batarians been slavers they would have all been expelled by now...

Well, good point. Besides, I didn't know this story.

Anyway, I never though that all Batarians were bad, just their government and all nationalists who support their state. Also all slavers, warlords, terrorists etc.

I always though that Batarians would become better if their government fell.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 juin 2011 - 10:06 .

[Aradace]

Sylvianus wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

An intellectual point of view that isn't always in line with reality. Once you know the state of war with another country, this country that threatens you, we'll see.

  must have suffered slavery to better understand how it's disgusting. And raise it as a feature of society is repugnant.

Especially as their slaves are humans, not Batarians and alien to their customs.

I agree with you...
Just a precisation: Batarians DO enslave other Batarians, the slave caste existed well before they invented spaceflight, as it's part of their culture...

Not all Batarian agree to this caste system though: during the Anhur rebellions, the Na'hesit "pro slavery" faction was mainly composed of Batarians (with a few humans), but the "anti slavery" faction that eventually won the war (with military help from Eclipse) had Batarians in it too; and in fact, Anhur is still a mixed batarian/human world: had all the Batarians been slavers they would have all been expelled by now...

Well, good point. Besides, I didn't know this story.

Anyway, I never though that all Batarians were bad, just their government and all nationalists who support their state. Also all slavers, warlords, terrorists etc.

I always though that Batarians become better if their government fell.

I just dont like slavers...period lol.  Slavers IMO deserve what they get.  Not all batarians are bad, this is a given.  Which is why if they ever "fixed" their government, I'd probably actually like them.  It's their government that damns them in my eyes.

[Sylvianus]

Aradace wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

An intellectual point of view that isn't always in line with reality. Once you know the state of war with another country, this country that threatens you, we'll see.

  must have suffered slavery to better understand how it's disgusting. And raise it as a feature of society is repugnant.

Especially as their slaves are humans, not Batarians and alien to their customs.

I agree with you...
Just a precisation: Batarians DO enslave other Batarians, the slave caste existed well before they invented spaceflight, as it's part of their culture...

Not all Batarian agree to this caste system though: during the Anhur rebellions, the Na'hesit "pro slavery" faction was mainly composed of Batarians (with a few humans), but the "anti slavery" faction that eventually won the war (with military help from Eclipse) had Batarians in it too; and in fact, Anhur is still a mixed batarian/human world: had all the Batarians been slavers they would have all been expelled by now...

Well, good point. Besides, I didn't know this story.

Anyway, I never though that all Batarians were bad, just their government and all nationalists who support their state. Also all slavers, warlords, terrorists etc.

I always though that Batarians become better if their government fell.

I just dont like slavers...period lol.  Slavers IMO deserve what they get.  Not all batarians are bad, this is a given.  Which is why if they ever "fixed" their government, I'd probably actually like them.  It's their government that damns them in my eyes.

Exactly my point. I hate slavers and would probably likeBatarians if they fix their racist or anti-human government that damns in my eyes too.

They practice deliberately killing and capture of human citizens. They are funding criminal groups to destroy and hurt in human colonies. Unacceptable !

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 juin 2011 - 10:15 .

[Schneidend]

Paula Deen wrote...

5) They have a CASTE system.

There's nothing inherently wrong/evil/bad about caste systems.

[Pride Demon]

Sylvianus wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

I agree with you...
Just a precisation: Batarians DO enslave other Batarians, the slave caste existed well before they invented spaceflight, as it's part of their culture...

Not all Batarian agree to this caste system though: during the Anhur rebellions, the Na'hesit "pro slavery" faction was mainly composed of Batarians (with a few humans), but the "anti slavery" faction that eventually won the war (with military help from Eclipse) had Batarians in it too; and in fact, Anhur is still a mixed batarian/human world: had all the Batarians been slavers they would have all been expelled by now...

Well, good point. Besides, I didn't know this story.

Anyway, I never though that all Batarians were bad, just their government and all nationalists who support their state. Also all slavers, warlords, terrorists etc.

I always though that Batarians would become better if their government fell.

Me too...

In fact there may very well be dissenters, but the Hegemony has a Department of Information Control, that they use to scan every single information entering and exiting their systems, they generally use it to obscure what they don't like and feed Batarian citizens propaganda...

Mix this with the fact every Batarian citizen is forbidden from ever leaving Batarian space (generally only slavers, pirates, extremists and criminals founded by the Hegemony have permission to leave, though a few manage to flee and become exiles) and you pretty much see how we know almost nothing about what the average Batarian thinks of his/her government or of humanity...

Anhur proves how Batarians outside Batarian space (which means most are second generation Batarians, descendants of criminals or exiles) and away from the Hegemony controlling thumb may in fact be reasonable fellows... Only we have no idea how many they are...

There was also a nice story on CDN about a family of human colonists who had adopted a Batarian child, and this child grew up to be a pretty cool guy, some sort of person always ready to help or something, I can't remember exactly...

BTW, the story of Anhur rebellions is in the various descriptions of the planets in the system where Anhur itself is (can't remember the name now), it's one of the few examples depicting Eclipse as the good guys by the way...

[lovgreno]

Pride Demon wrote...

Steingrimur Steingrimsson wrote...

Because Bioware wants us to hate them. I think we've encounter, one, maybe two, reasonable Batarians? And I don't recall meeting anyone who isn't a thug, mercenary, terrorist or a racist. (I may be wrong, my memory is poor at best). I'd really like to get to know them better, that is why we must have a batarian squad mate!

That batarian Merchant on Omega that warns you about the black market seemed a pretty OK guy to me, in fact he is probably one of the nicest persons you meet that are native to Omega...

And in spite of being a mercenary, Salkie, from Garrus' recruitment seemed an honest fellow, depending on how you answer him he may even tell you he likes your attitude, but that may just be me...

Sgt Cathka was a nice enough guy too. He wasn't realy hostile against anyone, fixing the gunship was just his job. If you live on Omega there are probably few work opportunities outside the gangs. A shame he was a threat to Garrus and thus he had to die. Nothing personal Cathka.

[Sylvianus]

Pride Demon wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Pride Demon wrote...

I agree with you...
Just a precisation: Batarians DO enslave other Batarians, the slave caste existed well before they invented spaceflight, as it's part of their culture...

Not all Batarian agree to this caste system though: during the Anhur rebellions, the Na'hesit "pro slavery" faction was mainly composed of Batarians (with a few humans), but the "anti slavery" faction that eventually won the war (with military help from Eclipse) had Batarians in it too; and in fact, Anhur is still a mixed batarian/human world: had all the Batarians been slavers they would have all been expelled by now...

Well, good point. Besides, I didn't know this story.

Anyway, I never though that all Batarians were bad, just their government and all nationalists who support their state. Also all slavers, warlords, terrorists etc.

I always though that Batarians would become better if their government fell.

Me too...

In fact there may very well be dissenters, but the Hegemony has a Department of Information Control, that they use to scan every single information entering and exiting their systems, they generally use it to obscure what they don't like and feed Batarian citizens propaganda...

Mix this with the fact every Batarian citizen is forbidden from ever leaving Batarian space (generally only slavers, pirates, extremists and criminals founded by the Hegemony have permission to leave, though a few manage to flee and become exiles) and you pretty much see how we know almost nothing about what the average Batarian thinks of his/her government or of humanity...

Anhur proves how Batarians outside Batarian space (which means most are second generation Batarians, descendants of criminals or exiles) and away from the Hegemony controlling thumb may in fact be reasonable fellows... Only we have no idea how many they are...

There was also a nice story on CDN about a family of human colonists who had adopted a Batarian child, and this child grew up to be a pretty cool guy, some sort of person always ready to help or something, I can't remember exactly...

BTW, the story of Anhur rebellions is in the various descriptions of the planets in the system where Anhur itself is (can't remember the name now), it's one of the few examples depicting Eclipse as the good guys by the way...

you're right. I 'm more inclined to have a Batarian squadmate now.