361 réponses à ce sujet

[Clover Rider]

Aradace wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Daddy Bags wrote...

Welp, you kill around 300,000 of them during the Arrival DLC (which is what brings Shepard to Earth at the begining of ME3). I'm going to go out on a limb and say they will not be joining you in the fight against the Reapers. I think they'll join the Reapers or Cerberus and you'll just have to eradicate them.

Fine by me lol.  If they want to join Cerberus or the reapers against Shep, all the better.  Of course, the paragon players will be up in arms about that.  I honestly believe that if they had their way (not all paragon players but enough) the reaper invasion would be solved with love, peace, and harmony.  You know, typical hippy bs.  

Patton once said something to the effect of "Wars arent won by dying for your country, but by making the other SoB die for his"  that's probably not verbetim but its in the ballpark.  

The batarians as a whole have yet to give me a reason to NOT stereotype them and/or be prejudice against them.  And until they do, I will continue to think their entire way of life (ficticious as it is) is abhorable and that they deserve what they get.  There are quite a few countries that have that mentality of America (where I live).  And honestly, I understand why they think the way they do about us.  And yes, I believe that by doing nothing to remedy that "reputation" that we deserve to be judged by the actions of the majority that gave us that bad rep.

My point is, if I were a batarian, knowing what I know about my government.  I still have the same opinion that I do now.  Because if there are "good" batarians out there, they sure as **** arent actively trying to do anything about the bad rep they have.  Those that sit idly by and do nothing to remedy their rep, deserve to be judged along side those who are responsible for said reputation.

Well being okay with killing a race(for the most stupid reasons) like you, does not make America look good.

Did I claim that it did?  Did I not just say that we deserve to be judged as such?  You assume I place myself among the few that actually do something to remedy the reputation.  Im a realist.  I dont deal in naive ideals that everyone in the universe can get along.  This also applies to fictional worlds as well where I take on the role of a character.  If you want to be idealistic, that's your business.  But regardless of what you think of me or my PoV, Im going to stand behind it 110%.  


In leiu of that.  Let me put this question to you:  How would YOU solve the tensions between the Batarians and Humans eh?  I can almost bet that I can predict your response but you can go ahead and answer anyway because there's always that slight possibility I could be wrong.

You have said you are fine with killing a race for slavery and their government yes. So you say we should work to show ourselves as better than our "bad" government but you don't want to yourself well okay.

As for myself I know we can never all get along and be all perfect like, but we can damn well try our best to be close to that. Look at America, they no longer let the KKK have any power anymore, they are jokes we find funny now or look back at the March Japan Earthquakes, China and Korea may not be the best of friends with Japan but they helped Japan anyway. Hell the Yakuza who are knowed to be racist, decided to help Non-Japanese during the quakes that says a lot to me.

Now onto what to do with the Batarians and Humans, First the Batarians and the Council(or the Human one) need to make peace(the Asari have slaves so don't tell me that's why we can't make peace) and make some deals like no Humans as slaves and we let them have something that is in the Council's power to give(like "land"). Then we can back up the "good" Batarians to go into their government and start to fix things. Now this is the long way(out of many) to go into fixing the Batarian government like say 10 to maybe 50 years and we would have a lot of setbacks but I think it can be done.

Was that the response you thought I give, I will say it's not my best work I am sleepy.

Modifié par Some Geth, 11 juin 2011 - 10:45 .

[lovgreno]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Steingrimur Steingrimsson wrote...

Because Bioware wants us to hate them.

Most people loath thinking for themselves.

Generalising is so much easier.

[lovgreno]

Mesina2 wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...


Also Alliance and Batarian Hegemony are same as USA and USSR.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Well they are.


Americans though "Russians are all evil communists dogs! They can't be trusted!" while Soviets "Americans are all evil capitalistic pigs! They can't be trusted!".

Maybe not the same but it's at least a the same old trick to make people afraid and thus more easily controlled. Generalisations about someone you never even met gives the people a false sense of us good and righteous people VS those wrong and evil people. Our leaders have fooled us with that for as long as we know. The sad thing is that many welcomes this easy exuse to get a false sense of being better than others, low self esteem is so easily exploited.

So your Shepard hates batarians? That is exactly what many human leaders want him to do. And vice versa of course. Basicaly human/batarian haters are just the same kind of flock of sheep.

[Clover Rider]

lovgreno wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...


Also Alliance and Batarian Hegemony are same as USA and USSR.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Well they are.


Americans though "Russians are all evil communists dogs! They can't be trusted!" while Soviets "Americans are all evil capitalistic pigs! They can't be trusted!".

Maybe not the same but it's at least a the same old trick to make people afraid and thus more easily controlled. Generalisations about someone you never even met gives the people a false sense of us good and righteous people VS those wrong and evil people. Our leaders have fooled us with that for as long as we know. The sad thing is that many welcomes this easy exuse to get a false sense of being better than others, low self esteem is so easily exploited.

So your Shepard hates batarians? That is exactly what many human leaders want him to do. And vice versa of course. Basicaly human/batarian haters are just the same kind of flock of sheep.

Yup you are right.

[TexasToast712]

Sphynx118 wrote...

Their government are funding batarian slavers and pirates to focus on humans? I think thats pretty bad

That and the fact that their heads look like a pile of **** with eyes in it, and their freaky teeth as well. I hate their personality and their voices, not to mention, THEY BURNED MY HOME TO THE GROUND AND ENSLAVED MY NEIGHBORS!

[KingGato]

archurban wrote...

they are not friendly for human especially. remember, bartender at Omega? he tries to kill humans. someone died. shepard was passed out when he drank. that just shows enough. their reputation is not really good at all. more likely notorious. that's why I blew up entire batarians system in Arrival DLC. I was just glad to kill over 300,000 bastards.

That's an interesting example because, unlike in most situations, you don't get the full story unless you don't use paragon or renegade speech options. If you just chat at him a bit, he admits that he's poisoning humans out of revenge for his brother, who's death he blames on humans.

Hardly justification for poisoning innocent people, but again the motivation is blind grief and rage, not some sort of inherent genetics-based evil. Lashing out like that is, to put a bit of a fine point on things, very humans.

And just to further make the point, isn't killing thousands of people because a seperate person poisoned you be the same thing as poisoning people because a seperate person killed your brother rather elegant in its irony?

[Olwydd]

Schneidend wrote...

Paula Deen wrote...

5) They have a CASTE system.

There's nothing inherently wrong/evil/bad about caste systems.

What? Seriously? Tell that to the people on the bottom rung of the ladder.

[Paula Deen]

Schneidend wrote...

Paula Deen wrote...

5) They have a CASTE system.

There's nothing inherently wrong/evil/bad about caste systems.

Yes, there is. It's both a waste of human capital (to use a relative term) and a denial of basic rights (the ability to make your own decisions and forge your own path in life). Unless each caste is respected, valued, and paid equally, then you have even more problems.

"Slavery is an inherent part of the Batarian caste system" was quoted by a high batarian official in ME2. Just think about THAT.

[noxsachi]

I can't wait to let those bastards get reaped in ME3. There will never be a playthrough where a single god damn batarian survives.

[Comsky159]

Because their homeworld society is an Orwellian dystopia, and those that have escaped are pirates, slavers or just dicks. Not much to love.

[Aradace]

Some Geth wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Daddy Bags wrote...

Welp, you kill around 300,000 of them during the Arrival DLC (which is what brings Shepard to Earth at the begining of ME3). I'm going to go out on a limb and say they will not be joining you in the fight against the Reapers. I think they'll join the Reapers or Cerberus and you'll just have to eradicate them.

Fine by me lol.  If they want to join Cerberus or the reapers against Shep, all the better.  Of course, the paragon players will be up in arms about that.  I honestly believe that if they had their way (not all paragon players but enough) the reaper invasion would be solved with love, peace, and harmony.  You know, typical hippy bs.  

Patton once said something to the effect of "Wars arent won by dying for your country, but by making the other SoB die for his"  that's probably not verbetim but its in the ballpark.  

The batarians as a whole have yet to give me a reason to NOT stereotype them and/or be prejudice against them.  And until they do, I will continue to think their entire way of life (ficticious as it is) is abhorable and that they deserve what they get.  There are quite a few countries that have that mentality of America (where I live).  And honestly, I understand why they think the way they do about us.  And yes, I believe that by doing nothing to remedy that "reputation" that we deserve to be judged by the actions of the majority that gave us that bad rep.

My point is, if I were a batarian, knowing what I know about my government.  I still have the same opinion that I do now.  Because if there are "good" batarians out there, they sure as **** arent actively trying to do anything about the bad rep they have.  Those that sit idly by and do nothing to remedy their rep, deserve to be judged along side those who are responsible for said reputation.

Well being okay with killing a race(for the most stupid reasons) like you, does not make America look good.

Did I claim that it did?  Did I not just say that we deserve to be judged as such?  You assume I place myself among the few that actually do something to remedy the reputation.  Im a realist.  I dont deal in naive ideals that everyone in the universe can get along.  This also applies to fictional worlds as well where I take on the role of a character.  If you want to be idealistic, that's your business.  But regardless of what you think of me or my PoV, Im going to stand behind it 110%.  


In leiu of that.  Let me put this question to you:  How would YOU solve the tensions between the Batarians and Humans eh?  I can almost bet that I can predict your response but you can go ahead and answer anyway because there's always that slight possibility I could be wrong.

You have said you are fine with killing a race for slavery and their government yes. So you say we should work to show ourselves as better than our "bad" government but you don't want to yourself well okay.

As for myself I know we can never all get along and be all perfect like, but we can damn well try our best to be close to that. Look at America, they no longer let the KKK have any power anymore, they are jokes we find funny now or look back at the March Japan Earthquakes, China and Korea may not be the best of friends with Japan but they helped Japan anyway. Hell the Yakuza who are knowed to be racist, decided to help Non-Japanese during the quakes that says a lot to me.

Now onto what to do with the Batarians and Humans, First the Batarians and the Council(or the Human one) need to make peace(the Asari have slaves so don't tell me that's why we can't make peace) and make some deals like no Humans as slaves and we let them have something that is in the Council's power to give(like "land"). Then we can back up the "good" Batarians to go into their government and start to fix things. Now this is the long way(out of many) to go into fixing the Batarian government like say 10 to maybe 50 years and we would have a lot of setbacks but I think it can be done.

Was that the response you thought I give, I will say it's not my best work I am sleepy.

I said that we should strive to be better? really? show me where I said that.  I could go on for years on what I actually think but let me summarize for you:  I am not an idealist.  Nor do I ever strive to be such.  As a human being, I have flaws.  And one of those flaws is that slavery is one of the few things that will send me into a rage that there are no words that can aptly describe.  Slavers, as individuals deserve nothing less than to be killed without mercy.  If an entire society's government is based on slavery, then they also deserve no less.  Regardless of how many are against it, because they dont choose to make a stand against it and change it, they are no better than those who do agree with it and thus deserve the same judgment.  Which is why I cannot and will not bring myself to feel "guilty" for the lives of 300,000+ batarians.  I would expect the same judgement were the roles reversed.  Until their government is changed, those that sit by and do nothing are just as guilty as the ones who installed the government.  

I cannot, and will not feel sympathy for a culture (fictional or otherwise) that has a government based anywhere in slavery.  If I could have culled out all the "innocent bystanders" and set them aside to be spared in the relay explosion, I would have.  But seeing as how I couldnt, there's no sense in feeling guilty about it.  It was unavoidable.  And my taking "enjoyment" in it,  extends to the lives lost that WERE pro slavery.  The lives lost that werent, Im indifferent to and I simply view them as collateral damage.  

[GodWood]

Deep down everyone has a need to have an illogical hatred for a group of people.

[Zimary]

Comsky159 wrote...

Because their homeworld society is an Orwellian dystopia, and those that have escaped are pirates, slavers or just dicks. Not much to love.

Not to mention that pretty much every Batarian youve come across in both ME1 and ME2 is either a slaver, pirate, or terorist. Except for the bartender on Omega, who likes poisoning humans. And the mad prophet, that refers to humans as 'plague' and 'blight'. Basically, you have yet to meet a nice, good Batarian. Theyre like the Geth, before you met Legion who explained the virus and Heretic split and all that.

And its not just the ones who escape that are pretty messed up. Take a look at the planet you go to in Arrival. All the work be done by slaves.

This should give you a better idea of the relationship between Humans and Batarians:
""Nothing is impossible," says the Hegemony propaganda poster that depicts a muscular batarian miner under an Aratoht sky, his rebreather held away from his face as if he's just taken it off. The image sums up millions of man-hours of labor on the batarian planet and represents (or misrepresents) much of its history. Two decades ago, Aratoht, like several planets in the Skyllian Verge, was claimed by both human and batarian governments, but the Alliance backed out after learning about the atmosphere's dangerously low pressure and oxygen levels. Instead, they concentrated their colonial efforts on planets that could support human life without the aid of domed habitats and rebreathers. Human governments saw it as a wise move; batarians saw it as cowardly. The batarians rose to the colonization challenge, shipping in large numbers of laborers. They took the high financial costs and casualties due to accidents or logistical snafus in stride. Large-scale dumping of cyanobacteria has increased the oxygen in the atmosphere by a fraction of one percent, a modest increase that the Hegemony trumpets as a sign of their eventual victory. Short-term profits on Aratoht are largely made in the minerals sector through mining the extremely metal-rich planetary crust. The dark side to the mining does not appear on the propaganda poster -- the majority of laborers are indentured servants or slaves. Aratoht is rumored to have military bases on its surface and throughout its solar system, though details are heavily restricted by the Hegemony's Ministry of Information Control. Human merchant ships rarely come to the planet, outcompeted by local companies that benefit from heavy economic protections. The average Aratoht citizen only sees humans on the news, usually featured in stories of trials and executionsof accused spies"

Source

Modifié par Zimary, 12 juin 2011 - 12:54 .

[Aradace]

GodWood wrote...

Deep down everyone has a need to have an illogical hatred for a group of people.

Truth is, everyone...EVERYONE does.  Whether they deign to admit it or not is another matter entirely.

[Clover Rider]

Aradace wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Daddy Bags wrote...

Welp, you kill around 300,000 of them during the Arrival DLC (which is what brings Shepard to Earth at the begining of ME3). I'm going to go out on a limb and say they will not be joining you in the fight against the Reapers. I think they'll join the Reapers or Cerberus and you'll just have to eradicate them.

Fine by me lol.  If they want to join Cerberus or the reapers against Shep, all the better.  Of course, the paragon players will be up in arms about that.  I honestly believe that if they had their way (not all paragon players but enough) the reaper invasion would be solved with love, peace, and harmony.  You know, typical hippy bs.  

Patton once said something to the effect of "Wars arent won by dying for your country, but by making the other SoB die for his"  that's probably not verbetim but its in the ballpark.  

The batarians as a whole have yet to give me a reason to NOT stereotype them and/or be prejudice against them.  And until they do, I will continue to think their entire way of life (ficticious as it is) is abhorable and that they deserve what they get.  There are quite a few countries that have that mentality of America (where I live).  And honestly, I understand why they think the way they do about us.  And yes, I believe that by doing nothing to remedy that "reputation" that we deserve to be judged by the actions of the majority that gave us that bad rep.

My point is, if I were a batarian, knowing what I know about my government.  I still have the same opinion that I do now.  Because if there are "good" batarians out there, they sure as **** arent actively trying to do anything about the bad rep they have.  Those that sit idly by and do nothing to remedy their rep, deserve to be judged along side those who are responsible for said reputation.

Well being okay with killing a race(for the most stupid reasons) like you, does not make America look good.

Did I claim that it did?  Did I not just say that we deserve to be judged as such?  You assume I place myself among the few that actually do something to remedy the reputation.  Im a realist.  I dont deal in naive ideals that everyone in the universe can get along.  This also applies to fictional worlds as well where I take on the role of a character.  If you want to be idealistic, that's your business.  But regardless of what you think of me or my PoV, Im going to stand behind it 110%.  


In leiu of that.  Let me put this question to you:  How would YOU solve the tensions between the Batarians and Humans eh?  I can almost bet that I can predict your response but you can go ahead and answer anyway because there's always that slight possibility I could be wrong.

You have said you are fine with killing a race for slavery and their government yes. So you say we should work to show ourselves as better than our "bad" government but you don't want to yourself well okay.

As for myself I know we can never all get along and be all perfect like, but we can damn well try our best to be close to that. Look at America, they no longer let the KKK have any power anymore, they are jokes we find funny now or look back at the March Japan Earthquakes, China and Korea may not be the best of friends with Japan but they helped Japan anyway. Hell the Yakuza who are knowed to be racist, decided to help Non-Japanese during the quakes that says a lot to me.

Now onto what to do with the Batarians and Humans, First the Batarians and the Council(or the Human one) need to make peace(the Asari have slaves so don't tell me that's why we can't make peace) and make some deals like no Humans as slaves and we let them have something that is in the Council's power to give(like "land"). Then we can back up the "good" Batarians to go into their government and start to fix things. Now this is the long way(out of many) to go into fixing the Batarian government like say 10 to maybe 50 years and we would have a lot of setbacks but I think it can be done.

Was that the response you thought I give, I will say it's not my best work I am sleepy.

I said that we should strive to be better? really? show me where I said that.  I could go on for years on what I actually think but let me summarize for you:  I am not an idealist.  Nor do I ever strive to be such.  As a human being, I have flaws.  And one of those flaws is that slavery is one of the few things that will send me into a rage that there are no words that can aptly describe.  Slavers, as individuals deserve nothing less than to be killed without mercy.  If an entire society's government is based on slavery, then they also deserve no less.  Regardless of how many are against it, because they dont choose to make a stand against it and change it, they are no better than those who do agree with it and thus deserve the same judgment.  Which is why I cannot and will not bring myself to feel "guilty" for the lives of 300,000+ batarians.  I would expect the same judgement were the roles reversed.  Until their government is changed, those that sit by and do nothing are just as guilty as the ones who installed the government.  

I cannot, and will not feel sympathy for a culture (fictional or otherwise) that has a government based anywhere in slavery.  If I could have culled out all the "innocent bystanders" and set them aside to be spared in the relay explosion, I would have.  But seeing as how I couldnt, there's no sense in feeling guilty about it.  It was unavoidable.  And my taking "enjoyment" in it,  extends to the lives lost that WERE pro slavery.  The lives lost that werent, Im indifferent to and I simply view them as collateral damage.  

Look at your posrs in this thread you did say someting like that.

And those that sit by are not guilty, should all of the Germans and Japanese be killed for their goverments in the past no!

Also I hate slavery more than you can ever imagine but I still would never want the death all of the Batarians or the Asari because of that it, it would make me into less of a Human not to care about life, anylife.

Well all I can say is I give you my pity.

Modifié par Some Geth, 12 juin 2011 - 12:56 .

[Stardusk78]

Batarians are ugly.

[Warkupo]

Batarians have a very extreme idea of justice. I prefer to respond to that in a similar fashion. I feel it helps bridge the gap in our cultures.

[Ryzaki]

Aradace wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Deep down everyone has a need to have an illogical hatred for a group of people.

Truth is, everyone...EVERYONE does.  Whether they deign to admit it or not is another matter entirely.

 

Mine are those people who beg when they're wearing makeup and the like and claim they really want food but use the money you gave them to buy drinks/cigarrettes. 

[1136342t54_]

 I find it very interesting how those who love to use slavery as a reason to hate Batarians. More than likely most slaves are batarians. There Caste system likely allows for most of the populace to either be lowly workers who can't do much but try and make a poor living for themselves or become slavers and pirates in which they could use that money to either fend ofr themselves or give money to there families. There government and caste system is the problem.

[Rolling Flame]

I don't like the Batarians for the same reason that many others in this thread don't like them; they have shown no redeeming features at all. Every single Batarian we have met has hated humans with a passion, most of the time with no reason. In the face of that, its hard to imagine that there are any good Batarians anywhere in the galaxy.

[1136342t54_]

Rolling Flame wrote...

I don't like the Batarians for the same reason that many others in this thread don't like them; they have shown no redeeming features at all. Every single Batarian we have met has hated humans with a passion, most of the time with no reason. In the face of that, its hard to imagine that there are any good Batarians anywhere in the galaxy.

Its understandable to not like them but hating them is pointless and wasteful. Also you shouldn't really say that there is no reason for why some Batarians hate us to. Humanity is demonized in there eyes as being the race to kick them out of the Galactic community and make them the scum of the Galaxy. I really wouldn't like Humans if that was all I heard.

[Reptilian Rob]

marshalleck wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I will only say this, if you "Hate" the Batarians, you unintentionally "hate" the Quarians as well. Since at the beginning of the Geth war they started a mass genocide to protect their interests and themselves to exterminating Geth enclaves and systems. Same as the Batarians did with the Human populace, to protect their colonies and themselves.

Don't even start with the quarians. If you want to have that discussion for the 700th time, start your own thread.

It's not about the Qurians, it's about the Batarian hate, or so the thread is s titled. It's more or less an observation, that has valid ties and similarities to the subject of the thread. While hating a race in Mass Effect is fine, that's the purpose of the story afterall, to create emotive responses in the gamer, it also creates parellels with other races in the Mass Effect universe. 

Just an observation, not trying to create another discussion.