361 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Platform626 wrote...

Because they're dirty Batarians. But then again they could be Vorcha...

The Batarians and Vorcha are good people. The latter in particular is going to save the Galaxy from husk hordes.

Modifié par Seboist, 12 juin 2011 - 01:30 .

[sponge56]

Batarians are clearly meant to be the Iran/ N Korea of the ME universe. The Batarians have some parallel with these nations (bar slavery, except of course the N Korean labour camps)

[GnusmasTHX]

1136342t54 wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

I don't like the Batarians for the same reason that many others in this thread don't like them; they have shown no redeeming features at all. Every single Batarian we have met has hated humans with a passion, most of the time with no reason. In the face of that, its hard to imagine that there are any good Batarians anywhere in the galaxy.

Its understandable to not like them but hating them is pointless and wasteful. Also you shouldn't really say that there is no reason for why some Batarians hate us to. Humanity is demonized in there eyes as being the race to kick them out of the Galactic community and make them the scum of the Galaxy. I really wouldn't like Humans if that was all I heard.

They kicked themselves out of the galactic community. 

[Aradace]

@Some Geth - Once again, you're reading too much into what I said. Unless I said those words verbetim, do not presume that's what I meant. I dont use implications. What I posted is what I posted at face value. "Saying something like that" isnt the same as actually saying it. Dont insert an implication or jump to conclusions where there are none to jump to. period.

Point is, I do not, and will not agree with your point of view on the matter...ever. Why? Because you continue to look at the issue through concepts such as "good" or "evil". I dont have the same "compass" as you do and convincing me to do so is not only a waste of your time, but mine as well as it'll never happen lol.

And if that isnt your intent, then your whole stance is even more redundant and you're wasting time even then. You wanted my position, I gave it at face value. You chose to insert meanings and implications that were clearly not there which means even after explaining the position several times, you still remain unable to see my point.

Which means, explaining myself further beyond this point is also a complete and utter waste of time. Ive said in almost every one of my posts that unless Ive stated what you claimed verbetim, DO NOT ASSUME THAT IS WHAT IS MEANT. Yet you continue to do just that. So, because of that, for me, the discussion is over and am moving on with the topic at hand.

As far as "Is that the response I thought you'd have" Yes, almost word for word in fact.  I knew you'd go the idealist approach and go for the "peaceful" solution.  So let me guess, if you could get away with it, you'd play the entire game solving every single conflict through peaceful resolutions?  You neednt answer because I already know the answer.  So let me stop you there.  Preach your idealistic and naive sermon somewhere else.  

Modifié par Aradace, 12 juin 2011 - 10:11 .

[Clover Rider]

Aradace wrote...

@Some Geth - Once again, you're reading too much into what I said. Unless I said those words verbetim, do not presume that's what I meant. I dont use implications. What I posted is what I posted at face value. "Saying something like that" isnt the same as actually saying it. Dont insert an implication or jump to conclusions where there are none to jump to. period.

Point is, I do not, and will not agree with your point of view on the matter...ever. Why? Because you continue to look at the issue through concepts such as "good" or "evil". I dont have the same "compass" as you do and convincing me to do so is not only a waste of your time, but mine as well as it'll never happen lol.

And if that isnt your intent, then your whole stance is even more redundant and you're wasting time even then. You wanted my position, I gave it at face value. You chose to insert meanings and implications that were clearly not there which means even after explaining the position several times, you still remain unable to see my point.

Which means, explaining myself further beyond this point is also a complete and utter waste of time. Ive said in almost every one of my posts that unless Ive stated what you claimed verbetim, DO NOT ASSUME THAT IS WHAT IS MEANT. Yet you continue to do just that. So, because of that, for me, the discussion is over and am moving on with the topic at hand.

You said "There are quite a few countries that have that mentality of America.  And honestly, I understand why they think the way they do about us.  And yes, I believe that by doing nothing to remedy that "reputation" that we deserve to be judged by the actions of the majority that gave us that bad rep" I thought you meant by this that "we should strive to be better" if I am reading too much into that I apologize.

Also if you can be so kind, don't think I see the issue through concepts such as "good" or "evil" if I did I would be with you for the death of the Batarians and not caring if any "nice" one who just sit by die as well. Since the only "good" thing to do would be to kill them as they would be "evil" becasue of the slaves.

As for my intent I was just wondering how anyone could be fine with the death of a race, all of them kids as well, all becasuse of a bad government and that is a very sad thing to me, I wish you could see from my eyes how important life is. So there was my intent(and to have a good debate too). I am really sorry if I can't see you point I did try but I can't hate people that way all because of such things that can be fixed(I even said some ways the government cloud be fixed).

Anyway if this is going nowhere I am done if you are.

Oh and I am no idealist I just see most wars as pointless(and a waste of money) why do you think we will never have a World War 3 peace at this point is the best way to go about most things. Now why would I play a video game for the "peaceful" solution, some people do need to be shot you know.

Modifié par Some Geth, 12 juin 2011 - 11:09 .

[Bad King]

Seboist wrote...

Platform626 wrote...

Because they're dirty Batarians. But then again they could be Vorcha...

The Batarian and Vorcha are good people. The latter in particular is going to save the Galaxy from husk hordes.

You're right. If there's one species that will be effective against mobs of husks it's the vorcha. Large in number and hardy they'll give them husks a run for their money.

[Aradace]

Some Geth wrote...

...., some people do need to be shot you know.

This about sums it up really and in that, I agree.  "Solid Snake" said it best in the original Metal Gear Solid:  "Some people just need killing" lol.  Our whole discussion on the topic really is a testament as to why there can't be peace between Humans and Batarians.  Because there are people on both sides that think as you do and think as I do.  If there could be a middle ground somewhere, I wouldnt mind.  But the realistic part of me says that because of those constant difference in views, that it can never exist.  And because of that, there need to be folks ready, willing, and able to do the things "necessary" to deal with the threat even if it means some innocent lives are lost in the process. 

In my opinion, it's those men and women who are willing to get their hands dirty, and be called "monsters" by the masses that are the real "heroes" so to speak.  Because when diplomacy fails, you're going to want someone who isnt bound by a "moral compass" to get the job done by any means necessary.  I just happen to be one of those people willing to bear the skorn of the masses in order to do what is necessary when the need arises.

In that one sentence in your last post, you understand more about my stance now than you may care to admit.  I am more than willing to get my hands dirty if the need arises.  And if that means being the object of ire for the masses, so be it.  

[Labrev]

SilentNukee wrote...

They gather slaves because it's part of their "caste". That's enough reason for me.

You must hate all humans too then. Seeing as, we have it too.

[Clover Rider]

Aradace wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

...., some people do need to be shot you know.

This about sums it up really and in that, I agree.  "Solid Snake" said it best in the original Metal Gear Solid:  "Some people just need killing" lol.  Our whole discussion on the topic really is a testament as to why there can't be peace between Humans and Batarians.  Because there are people on both sides that think as you do and think as I do.  If there could be a middle ground somewhere, I wouldnt mind.  But the realistic part of me says that because of those constant difference in views, that it can never exist.  And because of that, there need to be folks ready, willing, and able to do the things "necessary" to deal with the threat even if it means some innocent lives are lost in the process. 

In my opinion, it's those men and women who are willing to get their hands dirty, and be called "monsters" by the masses that are the real "heroes" so to speak.  Because when diplomacy fails, you're going to want someone who isnt bound by a "moral compass" to get the job done by any means necessary.  I just happen to be one of those people willing to bear the skorn of the masses in order to do what is necessary when the need arises.

In that one sentence in your last post, you understand more about my stance now than you may care to admit.  I am more than willing to get my hands dirty if the need arises.  And if that means being the object of ire for the masses, so be it.  

I still feel we could have peace between Humans and Batarians we are not that different we can find a middle ground. Sure my post from earlier about how it can(and there are many ways not just that post) be done was idealistic yes, but it's not impossible the realistic part of myself says why waste lives. The Batarians lost a lot of people(Arrival) they are "weak" and upset, Humans don't want a war with them so if(and it's a big if) Shepard can somehow make the Batarians(most of them that is) know what he/she did was just. That would be the best time to start a "peace" of sorts. Or we could do something I think you would find better and start a war, win it and force them to give up their ways but more people will hate us for it the Batarians could then call us the "slavers" and we would lose a ton of human lives. I am not for any of that unless it's the only way.

Anyway I don't know what you mean by "monsters" are you talking about people that take out "evil" people like say Osama? because I think most people love them hell if I could I would love to buy them some drinks. But I do get what you mean about people who do the dirty jobs are heroes but don't forget people like Martin Luther King were heroes as well.

Oh I get your stance it's just I don't think the Batarians need to be shot since I feel we can make peace and start to "fix" their ways.

By the way it's nice to have a good debate like this I have not had one in some time, also sorry if I am not the best at it right now because I have had only like 3 hours of sleep in the last week.

Modifié par Some Geth, 12 juin 2011 - 01:06 .

[Labrev]

Seboist wrote...

Platform626 wrote...

Because they're dirty Batarians. But then again they could be Vorcha...

The Batarian and Vorcha are good people. The latter in particular is going to save the Galaxy from husk hordes.

PREACH!

[Eleinehmm]

Aradace wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

...., some people do need to be shot you know.

This about sums it up really and in that, I agree.  "Solid Snake" said it best in the original Metal Gear Solid:  "Some people just need killing" lol.  Our whole discussion on the topic really is a testament as to why there can't be peace between Humans and Batarians.  Because there are people on both sides that think as you do and think as I do.  If there could be a middle ground somewhere, I wouldnt mind.  But the realistic part of me says that because of those constant difference in views, that it can never exist.  And because of that, there need to be folks ready, willing, and able to do the things "necessary" to deal with the threat even if it means some innocent lives are lost in the process. 

In my opinion, it's those men and women who are willing to get their hands dirty, and be called "monsters" by the masses that are the real "heroes" so to speak.  Because when diplomacy fails, you're going to want someone who isnt bound by a "moral compass" to get the job done by any means necessary.  I just happen to be one of those people willing to bear the skorn of the masses in order to do what is necessary when the need arises.

In that one sentence in your last post, you understand more about my stance now than you may care to admit.  I am more than willing to get my hands dirty if the need arises.  And if that means being the object of ire for the masses, so be it.  

People who kill other people, who do not directly threaten them? I call them murderers and prefer to see them behind the bars. Think about your family or friends getting killed because somebody feels the States are crossing the line. It is not personal; they were getting rid of a military outpost nearby, or something.  Still like it?
I really like to quote my former co-worker on that.
“Sex, race and nation of origin are like football fan clubs. Only you didn’t chose to join them. How can you dislike people for things that are not of their own choosing is beyond me. “

I do not know if you leave your country much, but I have been moving around for the last 4 years. The thing is, people are painfully similar in our difference. Each and every time I see a “patriotic” US Vs. THEM post (no matter the language or country in question) I have a very strong inclination to Shepard-punch the poster in the face.

P.S.  I am sorry for being direct and (probably) rude. It’s just I like Mass Effect because, no matter the difference, all the “alien” races we see are essentially human. Each and every alien is an individual; good or bad, with his/her own flaws and virtues.
We are not the Reapers, and that’s our strength. 

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 12 juin 2011 - 01:45 .

[Aradace]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

...., some people do need to be shot you know.

This about sums it up really and in that, I agree.  "Solid Snake" said it best in the original Metal Gear Solid:  "Some people just need killing" lol.  Our whole discussion on the topic really is a testament as to why there can't be peace between Humans and Batarians.  Because there are people on both sides that think as you do and think as I do.  If there could be a middle ground somewhere, I wouldnt mind.  But the realistic part of me says that because of those constant difference in views, that it can never exist.  And because of that, there need to be folks ready, willing, and able to do the things "necessary" to deal with the threat even if it means some innocent lives are lost in the process. 

In my opinion, it's those men and women who are willing to get their hands dirty, and be called "monsters" by the masses that are the real "heroes" so to speak.  Because when diplomacy fails, you're going to want someone who isnt bound by a "moral compass" to get the job done by any means necessary.  I just happen to be one of those people willing to bear the skorn of the masses in order to do what is necessary when the need arises.

In that one sentence in your last post, you understand more about my stance now than you may care to admit.  I am more than willing to get my hands dirty if the need arises.  And if that means being the object of ire for the masses, so be it.  

People who kill other people, who do not directly threaten them? I call them murderers and prefer to see them behind the bars. Think about your family or friends getting killed because somebody feels the States are crossing the line. It is not personal; they were getting rid of a military outpost nearby, or something.  Still like it?
I really like to quote my former co-worker on that.....
 

.....P.S.  I am sorry for being direct and (probably) rude. It’s just I like Mass Effect because, no matter the difference, all the “alien” races we see are essentially human. Each and every alien is an individual; good or bad, with his/her own flaws and virtues.
We are not the Reapers, and that’s our strength. 

First of all, yes Id still be on board with it.  It's called collateral damage.  Even if it were me as the innocent bystander.  Innocent lives can and will be lost in conflict.  Theres no point in feeling bad about the ones you have no control over losing.  As I said before, Im simply willing to get my hands dirty where others are too squeamish to do so due to "morals".  Call me what you will but it is what it is.

Secondly, I am FAR from patriotic lol.  That's not to say I dont love my country, because I do.  But I wouldnt go so far as to say that Im "patriotic".  Ive seen alot of ****ed up things in our government go on first hand.  My time on the DMZ in NK there were so many GAG orders flying around that you wouldnt know which way to turn first.  Summarized, Im not big on most governments to begin with and Ill just leave it at that.

Lastly, no need for an apology for being direct/rude.  I take nothing on the internet personally (well almost nothing lol).  I'll repsect a person more for being up front and direct with me than I would them beating around the proverbial bush so to speak.

I just refuse to look at alot of things through a scope of "good" "Bad" "right" or "Wrong".  Especially matters concerning war/conflict.  There are exceptions to the rule (as there are with all rules) but for me, this issue isnt one of them.  

As I said, think of me personally what you will, it makes no difference.  I am simply one of those individuals brave enough to get his hands dirty and accomplish the job by any means necessary where others wouldnt even dream of it.  I have broad shoulders, so I can take your skorn 


@Geth - In a way, I kind of am talking about folks like Seal Team 6.  But in a more broad sense.  If that makes sense at all?
I personally find them to be heroes as well but unfortunately, there are people who dont think as I do in the regard.

Modifié par Aradace, 12 juin 2011 - 02:35 .

[78stonewobble]

I just have a built in dislike for beings with more than 2 eyes and/or 4 legs...

And I don't like spiders either...

[Clover Rider]

 I guess that would make sense if I knew what you were talking about.

Modifié par Some Geth, 12 juin 2011 - 02:47 .

[Aradace]

Some Geth wrote...

 I guess that would make sense if I knew what you were talking about.

Meaning anyone in general willing to get their hands dirty to get the job done.

[Clover Rider]

Okay got it.

[Eleinehmm]

Aradace wrote..
As I said, think of me personally what you will, it makes no difference.
 I am simply one of those individuals brave enough to get his hands
dirty and accomplish the job by any means necessary where others wouldnt
even dream of it.

Necessary. Necessary for whom, exactly ?
I prefer it as “cowardly enough not to refuse playing other people’s games”, myself.  Definitions are funny that way

P.S Hey, I have a right to say it. After all, I am much more likely to be killed by you then you by me.

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 12 juin 2011 - 03:10 .

[Aradace]

Eleinehmm wrote...

I prefer it as “cowardly enough to refuse playing other people’s games”, myself.  Definitions are funny that way

P.S Hey, I have a right to say it. After all, I am much more likely to be killed by you then you by me.

Definitions are indeed funny that way 

[Eleinehmm]

Aradace wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

I prefer it as “cowardly enough to refuse playing other people’s games”, myself.  Definitions are funny that way

P.S Hey, I have a right to say it. After all, I am much more likely to be killed by you then you by me.

Definitions are indeed funny that way 

Grammar is my bane, indeed

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 12 juin 2011 - 03:12 .

[1136342t54_]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They kicked themselves out of the galactic community. 

Why not? I mean the main point about being in the Citadel Council is for protection and the ability to prosper. The Council denied them both making them useless. The only reason why humanity staid loyal to the Citadel was because we were basically allowed to do plenty of things and were somehow advancing so far that a Council seat was in sight. 

[Rake21]

1136342t54 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They kicked themselves out of the galactic community. 

Why not? I mean the main point about being in the Citadel Council is for protection and the ability to prosper. The Council denied them both making them useless. The only reason why humanity staid loyal to the Citadel was because we were basically allowed to do plenty of things and were somehow advancing so far that a Council seat was in sight. 

I think the whole slavery thing might have had something to do with that.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Well there's the whole "slavery" and what they do to the people they capture...that might have something to do with it.
Or the fact that we've seen maybe 1 Batarian who wasn't a total assface.
Maybe the Fookin Blinks property.

[1136342t54_]

Aradace wrote...

This about sums it up really and in that, I agree.  "Solid Snake" said it best in the original Metal Gear Solid:  "Some people just need killing" lol.  Our whole discussion on the topic really is a testament as to why there can't be peace between Humans and Batarians.  Because there are people on both sides that think as you do and think as I do.  If there could be a middle ground somewhere, I wouldnt mind.  But the realistic part of me says that because of those constant difference in views, that it can never exist.  And because of that, there need to be folks ready, willing, and able to do the things "necessary" to deal with the threat even if it means some innocent lives are lost in the process. 

In my opinion, it's those men and women who are willing to get their hands dirty, and be called "monsters" by the masses that are the real "heroes" so to speak.  Because when diplomacy fails, you're going to want someone who isnt bound by a "moral compass" to get the job done by any means necessary.  I just happen to be one of those people willing to bear the skorn of the masses in order to do what is necessary when the need arises.

In that one sentence in your last post, you understand more about my stance now than you may care to admit.  I am more than willing to get my hands dirty if the need arises.  And if that means being the object of ire for the masses, so be it.  

I really don't agree with calling those type of people heroes. Those type of people don't need a title since calling some of those people heroes may even feel like an insult. I doubt some Generals in WWII are very proud of bombing cities into the ground killing thousands of poeple just to end a war. Calllin them heroes wouldn't be prudent. They will just say they did what they had to do and get on with it.

Also I'm not going to say you are not personally willing to get your hands dirty but people never know what they are capable of unless they are put into that position. Confidence fails sometimes in the face of those decisions.

There can be peace between humans and Batarians easily. In ME3 there is a threat that is ready to destroy all intelligent life in the Galaxy. In those situations nations either continue fight each other or they work together. Earth faced that decision in the reality that aliens existed. They joined together to form a multinational extrasolar governement to join together against this threat. Sure there is hate between the Batarians and Humans but when backed in the corner I'd rather ally with the person I hate to fight off my death.

You are right some people just need killing and I'd say Batarian terrorists, Mercs, slavers and there leaders need to be killed. The hate most people have for the race is understandable but not right. Hate leads people to do stupid things.

[1136342t54_]

Rake21 wrote...
I think the whole slavery thing might have had something to do with that.

Not really. Batarians seem to have had slavery for years. Its not like they just switched over to a caste system the instant they weren't a Citadel species. The Council ignored there slavery because they were useful just like the Krogan and Turians were useful.