361 réponses à ce sujet

[1136342t54_]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Well there's the whole "slavery" and what they do to the people they capture...that might have something to do with it.
Or the fact that we've seen maybe 1 Batarian who wasn't a total assface.
Maybe the Fookin Blinks property.

Wow so you've seen the worst of a society. Thats the best way to judge a race isn't it?

[Rake21]

1136342t54 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Well there's the whole "slavery" and what they do to the people they capture...that might have something to do with it.
Or the fact that we've seen maybe 1 Batarian who wasn't a total assface.
Maybe the Fookin Blinks property.

Wow so you've seen the worst of a society. Thats the best way to judge a race isn't it?

The problem is, the only thing we keep seeing is the worst.  Through two games, we've run into dozens of Batarians.  They've consisted of violent terrorists, vicious slavers, mercilous mercs, sociopathic-murdering racists, and less than subtle racists.

There comes a point wher you start having to think that's the norm.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

1136342t54 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Well there's the whole "slavery" and what they do to the people they capture...that might have something to do with it.
Or the fact that we've seen maybe 1 Batarian who wasn't a total assface.
Maybe the Fookin Blinks property.

Wow so you've seen the worst of a society. Thats the best way to judge a race isn't it?

Should I judge them by the best of their society instead?
You know the parts they haven't let us see.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

How about this.
We bury our mutual rivalry until the Reapers are taken care of.
After that the Alliance and the Batarian government can go back the the usual bullsh*t.

[GreenDragon37]

Sure, not all Batarians are bad, but they haven't done anything/much to prove otherwise.

And to the people blaming the Council for siding with Humanity:


"The Citadel Council
made first contact with the batarians in approximately 200 BCE, and
granted the batarians an embassy on the Citadel a century later. Despite
being welcomed into the galactic community, batarian aggression
provoked several crises in galactic relations over the years. Sometime
around 1785 CE, a batarian fleet bombarded the salarian colony world of Mannovai; in 1913, the Batarian Hegemony annexed the independent asari colony of Esan; and in 2115, Citadel forces skirmished with batarian forces on the planet Enael."

Source.

From this, we can conclude that the Batarians have been exteremly aggressive toward other races (especially Council races), no it is no wonder why the Council didn't side with them on the issue of the Skyllian Verge. They stormed off of the Citadel, started attacking Human colonies and taking Human slaves. The Hegemony hasn't been making a good name for itself.

Also, people would be afraid to accept Batarian negotiations for peace after the stunt that Jath'Amon pulled on the Citadel in Mass Effect Galaxy.

So the Batarian government continues to damn them.

That's why people don't like Batarians. Because of their government and because many of the individuals we've met have not done much to remedy how others view them.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 12 juin 2011 - 07:47 .

[1136342t54_]

Rake21 wrote...
The problem is, the only thing we keep seeing is the worst.  Through two games, we've run into dozens of Batarians.  They've consisted of violent terrorists, vicious slavers, mercilous mercs, sociopathic-murdering racists, and less than subtle racists.

There comes a point wher you start having to think that's the norm.

ME1 you've seen Batarian terrorists in a DLC. A DLC made for mostly combat and even the batarians in that were mostly afraid of disobeying the crazy as extremist who was leading them. They didn't care about destroying a colony all they wanted was slaves.

ME2 you were in the Terminus systems most of the time everyone were mercenaries and killers what did you expect? Also why wouldn't they be pretty xenophobic against humans they fought a proxy war with us for control over Colonies they were trying to obtain first. Humans were likely the new favorite and just let loose on whatever they could get. The Batarian government likely painted us as the boogeyman and in a caste dictatorship there isn't much the average citizen can do about it. Hell I wouldn't be surprised some will be mercenaries and slavers since it pays money and can get them off there ****ed planet where its likely most slaves are Batarians. It would explain why the Council didn't kick them out sooner since they weren't taking other species slaves.

I'm not saying they are right in anyway. They are very flawed and need to be brought back into a civilized society either by force or otherwise. I don't hate them since it would be pretty stupid to do that instead of trying to change them either by diplomacy or force. People throw around the word hate and genocide like its casual as hell and either don't truly know the meaning or don't care.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

1136342t54 wrote...

Rake21 wrote...
The problem is, the only thing we keep seeing is the worst.  Through two games, we've run into dozens of Batarians.  They've consisted of violent terrorists, vicious slavers, mercilous mercs, sociopathic-murdering racists, and less than subtle racists.

There comes a point wher you start having to think that's the norm.

ME1 you've seen Batarian terrorists in a DLC. A DLC made for mostly combat and even the batarians in that were mostly afraid of disobeying the crazy as extremist who was leading them. They didn't care about destroying a colony all they wanted was slaves.

ME2 you were in the Terminus systems most of the time everyone were mercenaries and killers what did you expect? Also why wouldn't they be pretty xenophobic against humans they fought a proxy war with us for control over Colonies they were trying to obtain first. Humans were likely the new favorite and just let loose on whatever they could get. The Batarian government likely painted us as the boogeyman and in a caste dictatorship there isn't much the average citizen can do about it. Hell I wouldn't be surprised some will be mercenaries and slavers since it pays money and can get them off there ****ed planet where its likely most slaves are Batarians. It would explain why the Council didn't kick them out sooner since they weren't taking other species slaves.

I'm not saying they are right in anyway. They are very flawed and need to be brought back into a civilized society either by force or otherwise. I don't hate them since it would be pretty stupid to do that instead of trying to change them either by diplomacy or force. People throw around the word hate and genocide like its casual as hell and either don't truly know the meaning or don't care.

I don't hate the Batarians.
I don't particularly care for them but I don't hate them.



Genocide is not good, why not destroy their industrial base/military arm and then make them a dependancy.
Everybody wins!.....
...except for them:devil:

[1136342t54_]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
Should I judge them by the best of their society instead?
You know the parts they haven't let us see.

What most are doing isn't just judging them but condemning them because of what little they see. Many are pretty great with letting the Reapers wipe them out but would rather let the Krogans who have done so much worse then they have just because they are awesome or useful. The latter sound like the douche bag Council who instead of usually punishing races before they get out of hand would likely let them do whatever they want to a point where thousands or millions of people die.

By saying a race is filled with mercenaries and slavers is inaccurate if most likely any race in Mass Effect. Since they are more comparable to real world nations then most slaves are the natives and slave owners are usually the minority rich.

[Rake21]

1136342t54 wrote...

Rake21 wrote...
The problem is, the only thing we keep seeing is the worst.  Through two games, we've run into dozens of Batarians.  They've consisted of violent terrorists, vicious slavers, mercilous mercs, sociopathic-murdering racists, and less than subtle racists.

There comes a point wher you start having to think that's the norm.

ME1 you've seen Batarian terrorists in a DLC. A DLC made for mostly combat and even the batarians in that were mostly afraid of disobeying the crazy as extremist who was leading them. They didn't care about destroying a colony all they wanted was slaves.

ME2 you were in the Terminus systems most of the time everyone were mercenaries and killers what did you expect? Also why wouldn't they be pretty xenophobic against humans they fought a proxy war with us for control over Colonies they were trying to obtain first. Humans were likely the new favorite and just let loose on whatever they could get. The Batarian government likely painted us as the boogeyman and in a caste dictatorship there isn't much the average citizen can do about it. Hell I wouldn't be surprised some will be mercenaries and slavers since it pays money and can get them off there ****ed planet where its likely most slaves are Batarians. It would explain why the Council didn't kick them out sooner since they weren't taking other species slaves.

I'm not saying they are right in anyway. They are very flawed and need to be brought back into a civilized society either by force or otherwise. I don't hate them since it would be pretty stupid to do that instead of trying to change them either by diplomacy or force. People throw around the word hate and genocide like its casual as hell and either don't truly know the meaning or don't care.

It's not hate, it's just a lack of a reason to like them.  I've never suggested wiping them out (that'd be a ****ed up Renegade choice, though).  However, even the official wiki makes them out to be ****s.  They look down on other races for having less than four-eyes and their government supports slavers and terrorists.

I'm not saying there's not a likable Batarian out there, but I don't know if we'll meet him.

[Neria Rose]

I haven't read this thread beyond the OP, so I don't really know what all was discussed. I just want to toss in my 2 cents and say I actually have a soft spot for Batarians. I didn't care for them in the ME1 DLC, but listening to the dead Batarian's logs about being locked in his room and him ultimately dying of the plague.. that really tugged at my heartstrings. I also felt sorry for the one laying in the street on Omega, the one with the paragon interrupt to heal him a little bit. I felt a tiny bit of guilt, too, when a Batarian released Mordin's assistant and mentioned human honor after my Shepard let him leave.

I dunno, I prefer to look at them as individuals. I understand that a lot of them are slavers, but.. seriously, the one who got locked in his room, I just want my Shepard to be able to go back in time, let him out, give him a hug, and tell him it's all going to be okay. That may be strange of me, but whatever.

Modifié par Neria Rose, 12 juin 2011 - 08:02 .

[1136342t54_]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
I don't hate the Batarians.
I don't particularly care for them but I don't hate them.



Genocide is not good, why not destroy their industrial base/military arm and then make them a dependancy.
Everybody wins!.....
...except for them:devil:

Then you will be forcing slavery to be a necessity instead of just some cultural reason and you will have billions of people willing to kill and torture every single human. Propaganda wouldn't even be needed since they now hate us more than any race would. At that point we won't even have the manpower to even occupy them and change there ways.

Personally a war with the Batarians could work in both favors. It would be better if it was a Joint council force instead of just humans. The Batarians seem to actually get alone with the other species and those forces on the ground wouldn't be hated as much as humans would.

The best way diplomacy may work is if we give them some planets and let them be a Citadel species with of course some concessions. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

1136342t54 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
I don't hate the Batarians.
I don't particularly care for them but I don't hate them.



Genocide is not good, why not destroy their industrial base/military arm and then make them a dependancy.
Everybody wins!.....
...except for them:devil:

Then you will be forcing slavery to be a necessity instead of just some cultural reason and you will have billions of people willing to kill and torture every single human. Propaganda wouldn't even be needed since they now hate us more than any race would. At that point we won't even have the manpower to even occupy them and change there ways.

Personally a war with the Batarians could work in both favors. It would be better if it was a Joint council force instead of just humans. The Batarians seem to actually get alone with the other species and those forces on the ground wouldn't be hated as much as humans would.

The best way diplomacy may work is if we give them some planets and let them be a Citadel species with of course some concessions. 

I didn't say slavery I said "dependency" it's a rather large degree of difference.
Slaves have no choice but to obey.
Dependents have a choice. The alternative for them...isn't pleasant.

Think of it as a Galactic protection racket.
Or how the Romans threated their "Friends and Allies"

[1136342t54_]

Rake21 wrote...
It's not hate, it's just a lack of a reason to like them.  I've never suggested wiping them out (that'd be a ****ed up Renegade choice, though).  However, even the official wiki makes them out to be ****s.  They look down on other races for having less than four-eyes and their government supports slavers and terrorists.

I'm not saying there's not a likable Batarian out there, but I don't know if we'll meet him.

Not saying you personally hate them but a lot of people do. I'm not even saying you should like there society because you shouldn't at all. Instead its better to want to change them since they can be living better lives. Caste systems rarely give a representation of an entire nation since only the ones at the top will allow certain aspects to be seen.

Garrus met one and he seems to be pretty likeable since he actually worked to help people on Omega. Hell the mercenaries weren't total ****s or racists they just seem like everyother merc. They did a job for money. The only real racists on Omega kind of had a reason to suspect humans of foul play during that plague. I won't defend the other racist for poisoning shepard. I mean he was pissed because of his brother's death but that doesn't give him a reason to hate or kill people. (Just like Saren did)

To be honest the Krogan are arguably worse then the Batarians. The only difference is that they can change because there society lets the strong decide and Wrex and Grunt are the strongest of them.

[1136342t54_]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I didn't say slavery I said "dependency" it's a rather large degree of difference.
Slaves have no choice but to obey.
Dependents have a choice. The alternative for them...isn't pleasant.

Think of it as a Galactic protection racket.
Or how the Romans threated their "Friends and Allies"

No. I'm not saying you want to enslave them. I'm saying that slavery of each other will be more necessary then before. Also being dependant on a group who put in the position you hate doesn't make things better at all. Helping them build up into a better race then they were can actually win you some friends.

[Schneidend]

Paula Deen wrote...

Yes, there is. It's both a waste of human capital (to use a relative term) and a denial of basic rights (the ability to make your own decisions and forge your own path in life). Unless each caste is respected, valued, and paid equally, then you have even more problems.

"Slavery is an inherent part of the Batarian caste system" was quoted by a high batarian official in ME2. Just think about THAT.

"Basic rights" are a construct of the human imagination. There is no universal law that states a person deserves certain rights. Obviously, it is quite beneficial to the individuals who live in countries that are guaranteed their nation's version of "basic rights," but that is only a promise of their government and not something inherent to their simply being. There is nothing even inherently "evil" about slavery. In fact, modern civilization wouldn't even exist without our ancestors enslaving one another.

And the qualifier in that quote is "batarian," not "caste." "Slavery is an integral (not inherent) part of the batarian caste system." Their caste system includes slavery. Not all caste systems do.

There are many things the batarians are doing wrong. The form of government they practice is not one of them.

Modifié par Schneidend, 12 juin 2011 - 08:10 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

1136342t54 wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I didn't say slavery I said "dependency" it's a rather large degree of difference.
Slaves have no choice but to obey.
Dependents have a choice. The alternative for them...isn't pleasant.

Think of it as a Galactic protection racket.
Or how the Romans threated their "Friends and Allies"

No. I'm not saying you want to enslave them. I'm saying that slavery of each other will be more necessary then before. Also being dependant on a group who put in the position you hate doesn't make things better at all. Helping them build up into a better race then they were can actually win you some friends.

I wasn't planning on helping them.
I was planning on exploting them.
Because the galaxy needs buttmonkeys.
And the Batarians are the best we've got.

[REgentleman]

"*Spare sick batarians during hostage situation*"
"Human nobility? I didn't know such a thing existed."

That statement at least proves that Batarians have a concept comparable to ours of "not being a total doucher." I'd like to know what they define as nobility.

[1136342t54_]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
I wasn't planning on helping them.
I was planning on exploting them.
Because the galaxy needs buttmonkeys.
And the Batarians are the best we've got.

How can you exploit a race that has no industry or military. You did say that specific part of there society would be destroyed.

Anyway you would just be doing the same thing the Council was doing to every single race the only difference is you won't profit.

[marshalleck]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

How about this.
We bury our mutual rivalry until the Reapers are taken care of.
After that the Alliance and the Batarian government can go back the the usual bullsh*t.

Or, we just steer the fleets clear of batarian space, and when the war is over we've got some prime real estate right next door to Sol.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 juin 2011 - 08:26 .

[Schneidend]

marshalleck wrote...
Or, we just steer the fleets clear of batarian space, and when the war is over we've got some prime real estate right next door to Sol.

I think this decision's already been made for us, actually. The reapers' initial arrival is in batarian space, as I understand it. There's likely nothing we can do for them besides absorb what's left of their fleet into the galactic defense initiative Shepard will be trying to form. After the reaper ordeal is over I doubt they'll even be a sustainable species.

[Ice Cold J]

dewayne31 wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

Still, most of the Batarians on Omega weren't unreasonable.

After you heal that Batarian in Mordin's recruitment, he chills out. The ones holding Daniel hostage are true to their word.
Granted, that bartender tries to kill you, but whatever.

true. but that two out of how many?

The only ones you have any real interaction with are those three, two-three members of the Blue Suns, all of whom are cool with you until they find out you're not on their side. The shopkeep, who's got an attiude. The dude who tries to jump you right outside the bar... and I think that's it. Pretty good percentages if you ask me.

[XDMMX]

Batarian society condones slavery, slavery is EVIL, so therefore Batarian society is EVIL, I say **** em.

Sure there may be individuals who are good, but overall there society is rotten to the core.

[Vena_86]

Racism based on appearance and a few encounters with Batarian criminals.

[Chuvvy]

Because the only Batarians we've seen have been Slavers, mercenaries, pirates or terrorists. Not exactly a good track record.