148 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave666]

I've always thought the whole Pro Human/Humans First approach was completely idiotic and suicidal anyway. The Reapers are coming to wipe out ALL (Space-Faring) species and there are people who want 'Human Dominance'? At a time when everyone needs be working together to even survive?

Hell, even with everyone working together there's no guarantee that we'll be able to win (without the power of Plot), but Humanity alone? Not whelks chance in a Supernova.

[Hatchetman77]

RobsanX wrote...

Hatchetman77 wrote...

To me blowing up the collector base because you're ****ing Shepard and you'll take down the Reapers somehow without the Reaper tech 'cause you're such a badass then telling TIM that you're taking his **** and that he workes for YOU now is by far way more renegade than saving the collector base because you're crapping your pants that the Reapers are comming. 

I agree. That's why my paragon Shep saved the collector base. Maybe Shep is lazy and wants TIM to take out the reapers, and when Shep wakes up from his nap he puts a bullet in TIM's glowing eye.

Let me know how that goes after TIM figures out how to combine the Geth computer virus with reaper indocternation technology and you wake up with TIM in command of the Reapers, the Geth, and all the other races as indocternated slaves.

Then again it WOULD be pretty badass to kick all their asses....

[Hatchetman77]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Going by the PR stuff Bioware have laid out so far, I don't think any of the choices will make things easier or harder for you.

It'll just mean the differences between wether you get werewolves or elves.

But werewolves sucked. And the Elf vendor is the only way to get an unlimited supply of elfroot to make all the healing potions you want. 

[Fixers0]

EsterCloat wrote...

.1 Killed the Rachni queen - No help from the Rachni during the Game.
According to what we know about ME3, the Reapers have gotten their hands on at least a few rachni and have huskified them. It's certainly possible that the rachni have been compromised and are unable to give assistance in any significant way of they were compromised to a large degree, especially so if the queen(s) was indoctrinated, taken or killed. Renegades possibly won't have to deal with the rachni at all as a threat due to offing them early on, thus depriving the Reapers of a race to huskify.
.2 Let the Citadel Council die - Council Races will be a lot harder to persuade.  
This one is complicated. While the turians will definitely be bitter, the asari and salarians might just decide to fall in line through a human led council. Of course, this seems unlikely, I was just positing that it might not be all bad.
.3 Destroyed the Genophage data - Krogan will not be able to help in a significant way.
Probably. There's some scenarios possible but aren't very likely. Concede the point.
.4 Destroyed the heretic Geth - Geth won't have enough forces to fully to battle the Reaper.
The heretics geth were only 5% of the total geth and most of those were wiped out by the Alliance sweeps after the battle of the Citadel. What the heretic geth brought to the table wasn't numbers, it's knowledge. Those guys were around Sovereign for a whole game and its possible they have insight into them that could help us find a way of beating them. On the other hand, the knowledge they bring might convince the geth that fighting them is hopeless and they might be more reluctant to fight and would require more work on Shepard's part to convince them than if he had just wiped out the heretics.
.5 Sell Legion to Cerberus - All geth will be hostile, and you will have not Geth ally at all.
If Legion doesn't escape Cerberus custody, they have no reason to be hostile to Shepard. For all they know, Legion got trapped on the derelict Reaper and crashed with it into the gas giant. Legion might just smooth out the integration process if you got him.
.6 Presented the truth at Tali's trial -Migrant fleet too conflicted an not being able to help much.
Yeah, you're pretty much screwed by this. But you had like four other options, including a renegade save Tali, why would you ever do this?

Let's see:

1. I do understand your point, but since bioware has the tradition to let the game play out in the favor of paragons i bet that they will get some advantages.

2. i know this is a though subject but remember that the Reapers are attacking the whole galaxy, why would the other races be willing to help the Alliance retake earth for a day or two. 

3. Okay then,

4. This is a simple trick done by bioware: Rewerite the heretics - more geth - easier boss battle.
                                                                 Destroyed the heretics - less geth - harders boss battle.

5. All geth will be hostile because the Heretic virus will overwrite the other geth and makes them think that Following the Reapers is the right thing to do.

6. Because i'm a man of truth and i think it's stupid that we should lie to an entire people just because other didn't want to ruin her father's career (even though he was dead). 

Modifié par Fixers0, 11 juin 2011 - 08:37 .

[jbblue05]

Dave666 wrote...

I've always thought the whole Pro Human/Humans First approach was completely idiotic and suicidal anyway. The Reapers are coming to wipe out ALL (Space-Faring) species and there are people who want 'Human Dominance'? At a time when everyone needs be working together to even survive?

Hell, even with everyone working together there's no guarantee that we'll be able to win (without the power of Plot), but Humanity alone? Not whelks chance in a Supernova.

Pro-human does not equal  won't work with aliens.

Being pro-human brings out the best in all the races and Being pro-alien brings complacency

[jbblue05]

Handing over the evidence at Tali's trial is the best way to prevent the war.  You discredit the war party, the public grows more fearful of the Geth  and won't support open war.  Their split allows Dano Xen rise to power  to continue her experiments in which could help organics hack the heretics and take away an ally from the Reapers
 
Hidiing the evidence doesn't discredit the war party.  The public remains ignorant about the Geth   The Admirality Board lacks leadership as they are mired in politics and  become their own worst enemy.

[AlanC9]

Fixers0 wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Seriously, you didnt see this coming?

if you have got nothing constructive to contribute to this  thread (and considering the Majority of your post consist of one or two lines usally meant to insult people because the think different then you do, many other threads to) then please stay away from it.  

He's got a point , though. Anyone who expected better doesn't know his Bioware.

[Oblivious]

jbblue05 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I've always thought the whole Pro Human/Humans First approach was completely idiotic and suicidal anyway. The Reapers are coming to wipe out ALL (Space-Faring) species and there are people who want 'Human Dominance'? At a time when everyone needs be working together to even survive?

Hell, even with everyone working together there's no guarantee that we'll be able to win (without the power of Plot), but Humanity alone? Not whelks chance in a Supernova.

Pro-human does not equal  won't work with aliens.

Being pro-human brings out the best in all the races and Being pro-alien brings complacency

Pro-human makes humanity dominant at the expense of the other races. A topic commonly explored in RPGs like Dragon Age and The Witcher where by subjugating the elves and the dwarves humanity rises but you just know a war for freedom is gonna erupt at some point

Like in The Witcher series the humans and non-humans are in a war that could have been avoided and in Dragon Age it is obvious that the mages and non-mages are gonna have a war at some point. Gah! I have gone off topic again!<_<

[ladyvader]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Seriously, you didnt see this coming?

I didn't. At least, not exactly. For example, I thought that saving the collector base would possibly lead to Shepard defeating the reapers and Cerberus/humanity establishing themselves as the new Galactic Empire, reaper tech and all, possibly even with Shepard taking over as the new Illusive Man or Emperor.

Did you not talk to any of you squad after you got back to the Normandy?  None, I repeat NONE of them thought keeping it was a good idea.  Did you not take the advice of your friends(Anderson and VS) that Cerberus can't be trusted? 

It is going to look like keeping the base is going to be a very bad decision espeically if Cerberus is working for the Reapers.

[jbblue05]

Oblivious wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

I've always thought the whole Pro Human/Humans First approach was completely idiotic and suicidal anyway. The Reapers are coming to wipe out ALL (Space-Faring) species and there are people who want 'Human Dominance'? At a time when everyone needs be working together to even survive?

Hell, even with everyone working together there's no guarantee that we'll be able to win (without the power of Plot), but Humanity alone? Not whelks chance in a Supernova.

Pro-human does not equal  won't work with aliens.

Being pro-human brings out the best in all the races and Being pro-alien brings complacency

Pro-human makes humanity dominant at the expense of the other races. A topic commonly explored in RPGs like Dragon Age and The Witcher where by subjugating the elves and the dwarves humanity rises but you just know a war for freedom is gonna erupt at some point

Like in The Witcher series the humans and non-humans are in a war that could have been avoided and in Dragon Age it is obvious that the mages and non-mages are gonna have a war at some point. Gah! I have gone off topic again!<_<

Salarians , Asari, and Turians rose to power at the expense of other races, but they still work with other races.

[EsterCloat]

Fixers0 wrote...

Let's see:

1. I do understand your point, but since bioware has the tradition to let the game play out in the favor of paragons i bet that they will get some advantages.

2. i know this is a though subject but remember that the Reapers are attacking the whole galaxy, why would the other races be willing to help the Alliance retake earth for a day or two. 

3. Okay then,

4. This is a simple trick done by bioware: Rewerite the heretics - more geth - easier boss battle.
                                                                 Destroyed the heretics - less geth - harders boss battle.

5. All geth will be hostile because the Heretic virus will overwrite the other geth and makes them think that Following the Reapers is the right thing to do.

6. Because i'm a man of truth and i think it's stupid that we should lie to an entire people just because other didn't want to ruin her father's career (even though he was dead). 

1. Obviously, but then again those who offed them won't have to deal with exploding rachni throwing smaller rachni at them.

2. A large amount of reapers are situated around Earth. Maybe they'll figure attacking them while they're there would be tactically viable? Maybe they'll decide to fling some huge rock at Earth to kill off the Reapers, I dunno.

5. Maybe when they found out Legion no longer responded to them they decided to just attack the heretics themselves and got rid of the virus instead of Shepard. It's possible. Or maybe once they found out the virus was unleashed into their systems they decided to self terminate and deleted themselves with only a small number of them converting before they wiped themselves out. No more true geth but at least there isn't a giant army of heretics.

6. I didn't tell them so they didn't tear themselves apart before the Reapers showed up. I didn't do it to "just" save Tali. I like truth but I'm not naive enough to jeopardize the Flotilla's unity any more than it already was.

[SalsaDMA]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

Going by the PR stuff Bioware have laid out so far, I don't think any of the choices will make things easier or harder for you.

It'll just mean the differences between wether you get werewolves or elves.

But werewolves sucked. And the Elf vendor is the only way to get an unlimited supply of elfroot to make all the healing potions you want.

Fair enough. I never really saw any noticable differences with the troops, but the elfroot point is prob a good one.

In any regards I think people shouldn't expect bigger differences than the ones examplified by the werewolves vs elves {smilie}

[Silvanend]

Jesus Christ, you really didn't see this comming when you decided to kill your own allies as a renegade? Do you guys think when you play? I've played Renegade but at the major plot points I've always went Paragon, My shepard is sorta a douchebag, but he doesn't lose sight of what's important.

[Bocks]

The Reapers could very well control the Rachni again.
The Human Council is just as stubborn as the Alien one.
The Krogan could go on a rampage if the Reaper threat is defeated.
The Rewritten Geth might corrupt some or all of the Geth.
The Quarian and Geth conflict is all about how you think is right.

[Feanor_II]

Every action has it's consecuences, think better next time.

[ladyvader]

Bocks wrote...

The Reapers could very well control the Rachni again.
The Human Council is just as stubborn as the Alien one.
The Krogan could go on a rampage if the Reaper threat is defeated.
The Rewritten Geth might corrupt some or all of the Geth.
The Quarian and Geth conflict is all about how you think is right.

I think the human council is worse than the mixed species one.  At least Shepard got their Spectre status back, the human council wouldn't give Shepard the time of day.

[nitrog100]

Where did you hear that rewriting the Geth would make them turn on you? Is that official, or just speculation? Seems kind of counterproductive. You would figure that having extra Geth troops to fight the Reapers would be a more logical choice...

[theelementslayer]

Fixers0 wrote...

That all the maopr Renegade choices from Mass Effect 1&2 will be punished in the way that they will be getting less support for the final battle.

Let's just take a look at it:

.1 Killed the Rachni queen - No help from the Rachni during the Game.
.2 Let the Citadel Council die - Council Races will be a lot harder to persuade.  
.3 Destroyed the Genophage data - Krogan will not be able to help in a significant way.
.4 Destroyed the heretic Geth - Geth won't have enough forces to fully to battle the Reaper.
.5 Sell Legion to Cerberus - All geth will be hostile, and you will have not Geth ally at all.
.6 Presented the truth at Tali's trial -Migrant fleet too conflicted an not being able to help much. 

Im a renegade and I disagree. 
1.Ya shes dead, dont have to worry about them being used against us.
2. Made all races stronger on their own, they will understand what I did was neccessary (they dont know you can keep the council and save the world) plus humanity will be formin the new council and theyll look to us for help
3. Didnt do that, dumb decision I think. Sometimes its worht the risk.
4.Geth wont be indoctrinated again to kill you.
5. Didnt do that, its a squaddie come on
6. Didnt do that, squadmates come first, worlds come second.

[bleetman]

ladyvader wrote...

Did you not talk to any of you squad after you got back to the Normandy?  None, I repeat NONE of them thought keeping it was a good idea.

Funnily enough, Garrus recommends you preserve it at the time.

[DCarter]

I'd be seriously disappointed if it did turn out that playing renegade seriously gimped your fight against the reapers. Bioware have always stated that renegade was more a no hold barred approach rather than just being pure evil so I'd hope playing renegade might actually make your fight against the reapers easier but at the cost of a lot more losses.

[HK-90210]

Fixers0 wrote...

That all the maopr Renegade choices from Mass Effect 1&2 will be punished in the way that they will be getting less support for the final battle.

Let's just take a look at it:

.1 Killed the Rachni queen - No help from the Rachni during the Game.
.2 Let the Citadel Council die - Council Races will be a lot harder to persuade.  
.3 Destroyed the Genophage data - Krogan will not be able to help in a significant way.
.4 Destroyed the heretic Geth - Geth won't have enough forces to fully to battle the Reaper.
.5 Sell Legion to Cerberus - All geth will be hostile, and you will have not Geth ally at all.
.6 Presented the truth at Tali's trial -Migrant fleet too conflicted an not being able to help much. 

Or:

1. Killed the Rachni queen - No Rachni husks. YAY!.
2. Let the Citadel Council die - Unified human-led council makes for easier unification of power under Shepard. No pandering to the different councilors.  
3. Destroyed the Genophage data - No uncontrolled Krogan threatening to take over once the Reapers are destroyed. Salarians easier to recruit.
4. Destroyed the heretic Geth - No Reaper-worshipping Geth(maybe), and no chance of the 'true' Geth being currupted by the Reaper-worshipping fction(Again, maybe. The consequences of this decision are way to difficult to predict.)
5. Sell Legion to Cerberus - Relatively guilt and conflict-free choice to simply enslave the Geth to the Quarians once more through Admiral Xen's research into the Geth. If you did this, I certainly hope you let Cerberus keep David in Overlord. Because there is no way the Geth are going to be your ally. You have thrown your lot in with the Quarians on this one.
6. Presented the truth at Tali's trial - The Migrant Fleet will be more open to peace with the geth.

Just saying, there are other ways to take the renegade decisions.

[Katzen]

Couldn't it just as easily go the other way on most of these?

.1 Killed the Rachni queen - No help from the Rachni during the Game.

Saved the Rachni queen... have to fight Rachni reapers.

.2 Let the Citadel Council die - Council Races will be a lot harder to persuade.  
 

Save the council... have a lot more trouble getting them to agree on a concise course of action against the reapers.

.3 Destroyed the Genophage data - Krogan will not be able to help in a significant way.

Hmm... not sure how the destroying/keeping the genophage data will have any impact on Krogan strength... it's not like little Krogan are just going to mature instantly and be ready to fight the reapers. It could only have an impact on whether or not the Krogan join you... and well... it seems like Wrex has your back no matter what.

.4 Destroyed the heretic Geth - Geth won't have enough forces to fully to battle the Reaper. 
 

Rewrote the heretics - the Geth are corrupted by the merger with their lost brethren. More Geth fight against you than would previously.

.5 Sell Legion to Cerberus - All geth will be hostile, and you will have not Geth ally at all.
 

This one seems like a pretty bad decision just because doing so prevents you from completing Legions loyalty mission. Still it could give you a tech advantage that could even out the playing field against the Geth you now have to fight.

.6 Presented the truth at Tali's trial -Migrant fleet too conflicted an not being able to help much. 
 

Or, now the migrant fleet has knowledge of the research that was taking place and has advanced weapons to use against both reapers and geth alike. 

I really don't think we'll be seeing black and white decisions so much as different means, same end. 

[The Apostate]

I'm pretty sure Hudson said something about not punishing player choice, he said something about giving the player a different experience according to their different paths. For instance, if you slaughtered Zu's Hope and Shiala in ME1, you still get to do the Zu's Hope quest in ME2 -- just a different character comes to talk with you on Illium. I can see the attraction of playing a pure Renegade Shepard -- he or she gets all the best lines.

Also, I think it's doubtful that a galactic army will actually stop the Reapers, so if you did play Renegade you shouldn't worry.

[Miami Heat Fan]

You can look at some of these things in a different perspective:
1. Letting the Rachni Queen survive could actually cause the Reapers to control them and use them against you like they did before.
2. Saving the Council does not change how ignorant they are, and they could still be reluctant to help.
4. Re-writing the geth may cause the Reapers to still somehow infect them and use them against you.

Then again I could be totally wrong. But it would be kind of harsh if Bioware punished Renegade players since a significant amount of players play the game that way.

[Schneidend]

Oblivious wrote...
Pro-human makes humanity dominant at the expense of the other races. A topic commonly explored in RPGs like Dragon Age and The Witcher where by subjugating the elves and the dwarves humanity rises but you just know a war for freedom is gonna erupt at some point

Pro-human sentiment and conquering all other races that aren't human are not the same thing.