Even if DA:O wasn't always epic throughout the game, it certainly *tried* to be epic. The Battle of Ostagar, the Landsmeet, the final battle, were all ambitious and well made.
I miss DA:O a lot. And as others have said, BG2 was certainly epic. It makes me sad to think about Bioware never making a real fantasy RPG ever again. =(
Do you miss the epic feeling that origins had?
Débuté par
Whatsupnewyork
, juin 11 2011 03:11
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#27
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:06
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Mr.House wrote...
This.Akka le Vil wrote...
I miss the epic feeling that Baldur's Gate II had.
DA:O was good, but it didn't really felt as epic - I blame the egregious level scaling and overall "too much mechanisms, not enough immersion".
^That.
#28
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:08
The Minority
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^^ThoseAlistairlover94 wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
This.Akka le Vil wrote...
I miss the epic feeling that Baldur's Gate II had.
DA:O was good, but it didn't really felt as epic - I blame the egregious level scaling and overall "too much mechanisms, not enough immersion".
^That.
#30
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:12
Zjarcal
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Not really because I did get that feeling from DA2.
#31
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:14
Moon Elf13
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The Minority wrote...
^^ThoseAlistairlover94 wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
This.Akka le Vil wrote...
I miss the epic feeling that Baldur's Gate II had.
DA:O was good, but it didn't really felt as epic - I blame the egregious level scaling and overall "too much mechanisms, not enough immersion".
^That.
^^^These
#32
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:19
Thelzar
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Whatsupnewyork wrote...
Do you? Hmmmmmmm?
Epic, as in save the world? No, not really. Dark and gruppy was refreshing. DA2 has flaws, but this is not one of them.
I do miss the epic feeling of the cinematic trailers though. The game did not quite deliver the epic boss fights the trailers promised.
#33
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:21
Special_Agent_Goodwrench
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Pretty much. A story can be of a smaller scale, like DA2, and still be plenty epic. Of course it would have been much more so if it wasn't rushed in the end, but oh well...Zjarcal wrote...
Not really because I did get that feeling from DA2.
#34
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:25
ipgd
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No.
I like many kinds of stories. "Epicness" is not some sort of mandatory quality for my enjoyment.
I like many kinds of stories. "Epicness" is not some sort of mandatory quality for my enjoyment.
#35
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:27
Ryzaki
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Yeah I miss the epicness.
Saving the world gave me a rush that DA2 severely lacked.
Saving the world gave me a rush that DA2 severely lacked.
#36
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Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:29
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Zjarcal wrote...
Not really because I did get that feeling from DA2.
Agreed.
The manner in which Meredith's invoking of the Right of Annulment plunged Kirkwall into chaos again, and the event which served as the cataclysm for her actions, all felt suitably momentous, epic, significant and noteworthy. I think DA2's finale succeeded in showcasing the culmination of a volatile situation's gradual exacerbation over a number of years, and felt genuinely meaningful as a result.
#37
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:29
Zanallen
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I'm kind of tired of the epic "save the world" type plot, so no. And really, there were only a handful of "epic feeling" moments in Origins. Pretty much the beginning and end of the game. Most of the rest was kind of blah.
#38
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:31
Leonia
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Origins had epicness? Gather the races, stop the Blight. The story itself is not what I enjoyed about Origins, rather the characters and the relationships and the introduction to Thedas as a setting was what I really appreciated.
#39
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:35
Xalen
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Nope. In fact, the lack of epicness is exactly what I like about DA2 (among other things)
#40
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 06:46
AngryFrozenWater
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Sure. One could do without the epic plot. In this case I was promised a "rise to power". That should do the trick, but to be honest, I never felt that rise. The game pushed me up the ladder, but at the same time I never felt that power. I was never in control of the story plot (although it was promised by MR Laidlaw & the Marketing that I could). The main story only offered me situations where I didn't have a choice at all. Anything that smelled like a choice was cosmetic. That pretty much removes the illusion of power. A fancy Hawke Estate in High Town or shaking hands with the grand cleric, Orsino, Meredith, and the viscount doesn't cut it. In that case I rather have an epic DA:O-type of story.Zanallen wrote...
I'm kind of tired of the epic "save the world" type plot, so no. And really, there were only a handful of "epic feeling" moments in Origins. Pretty much the beginning and end of the game. Most of the rest was kind of blah.
#41
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 07:17
ItsTheTruth
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DA2 has the feeling of epic fail written all over it though.
#42
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 07:28
TEWR
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If by "epic" you mean "Save the world" then meh. I enjoy those stories when done right. Origins did it right imo.
But for DA2 there wasn't a sense of choices mattering, whether real or as an illusion. There wasn't a sense of a true rise to power. A lot of the Act 1 quests really could've helped you feel like you rose to claiming back your estate (Magistrate Vanard, The Amaranthine Conspirators, etc..) along with building up connections.
Act 2 could've been set up so that you did something more than just become a mass murderer at the end.
Act 3 was rushed.
I'm trying to keep this as spoiler free as possible. If by epic you meant just plain epic, than I do miss that feeling. Because DA2 failed to deliver that promise of a Rise to Power.
But for DA2 there wasn't a sense of choices mattering, whether real or as an illusion. There wasn't a sense of a true rise to power. A lot of the Act 1 quests really could've helped you feel like you rose to claiming back your estate (Magistrate Vanard, The Amaranthine Conspirators, etc..) along with building up connections.
Act 2 could've been set up so that you did something more than just become a mass murderer at the end.
Act 3 was rushed.
I'm trying to keep this as spoiler free as possible. If by epic you meant just plain epic, than I do miss that feeling. Because DA2 failed to deliver that promise of a Rise to Power.
#43
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 07:48
Zanallen
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AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Sure. One could do without the epic plot. In this case I was promised a "rise to power". That should do the trick, but to be honest, I never felt that rise. The game pushed me up the ladder, but at the same time I never felt that power. I was never in control of the story plot (although it was promised by MR Laidlaw & the Marketing that I could). The main story only offered me situations where I didn't have a choice at all. Anything that smelled like a choice was cosmetic. That pretty much removes the illusion of power. A fancy Hawke Estate in High Town or shaking hands with the grand cleric, Orsino, Meredith, and the viscount doesn't cut it. In that case I rather have an epic DA:O-type of story.
I never said that DA 2 did it particularily well. I kinda liked the fact that Hawke was powerless, but I understand that it isn't for everyone and readily admit that DA 2 had issues that most likely had to do with the rushed development cycle in the face of all of the changes that were being made. That being said, I still don't want another save the world plot any time soon. That plot is pretty much everywhere these days and it is getting tiresome.
#44
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 08:05
Chromie
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Neither game was epic.
DA:O had the same overused Bioware story. At least DAII tried something different it was just still badly executed.
DA:O had the same overused Bioware story. At least DAII tried something different it was just still badly executed.
#45
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 08:14
AngryFrozenWater
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Yeah. I can understand that.Zanallen wrote...
I never said that DA 2 did it particularily well. I kinda liked the fact that Hawke was powerless, but I understand that it isn't for everyone and readily admit that DA 2 had issues that most likely had to do with the rushed development cycle in the face of all of the changes that were being made. That being said, I still don't want another save the world plot any time soon. That plot is pretty much everywhere these days and it is getting tiresome.AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Sure. One could do without the epic plot. In this case I was promised a "rise to power". That should do the trick, but to be honest, I never felt that rise. The game pushed me up the ladder, but at the same time I never felt that power. I was never in control of the story plot (although it was promised by MR Laidlaw & the Marketing that I could). The main story only offered me situations where I didn't have a choice at all. Anything that smelled like a choice was cosmetic. That pretty much removes the illusion of power. A fancy Hawke Estate in High Town or shaking hands with the grand cleric, Orsino, Meredith, and the viscount doesn't cut it. In that case I rather have an epic DA:O-type of story.
#46
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 08:27
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Zanallen wrote...
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Sure. One could do without the epic plot. In this case I was promised a "rise to power". That should do the trick, but to be honest, I never felt that rise. The game pushed me up the ladder, but at the same time I never felt that power. I was never in control of the story plot (although it was promised by MR Laidlaw & the Marketing that I could). The main story only offered me situations where I didn't have a choice at all. Anything that smelled like a choice was cosmetic. That pretty much removes the illusion of power. A fancy Hawke Estate in High Town or shaking hands with the grand cleric, Orsino, Meredith, and the viscount doesn't cut it. In that case I rather have an epic DA:O-type of story.
I never said that DA 2 did it particularily well. I kinda liked the fact that Hawke was powerless, but I understand that it isn't for everyone and readily admit that DA 2 had issues that most likely had to do with the rushed development cycle in the face of all of the changes that were being made. That being said, I still don't want another save the world plot any time soon. That plot is pretty much everywhere these days and it is getting tiresome.
I don't think it's getting tiresome. It's not about the destination, but about the people you bond with on your quest to save the world. What reason did Fenris have to stick around in Kirkwall for 7 years, for instance? None. Because there was no sense of urgency that the save the world plot brings, DA2 felt kind of unfinished and disjointed to me. A lot of characters could've used some fleshing out, as well. My personal opinion, of course.
Modifié par Alistairlover94, 11 juin 2011 - 08:35 .
#47
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 08:36
Akka le Vil
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So many people make a parallel between "epic" and "save the world".
I'd like to point that BG2, while epic, wasn't about saving the world at all, but just getting back your own soul.
Epic is more about a feeling and storytelling than the scale of the threat you fight. BG2 felt huge and full of adventure, THAT was the epic part. DA2 may be also about a self-centered tale, but it just was a long serie of hack'n'slash wave encounters with completely bland and replaceable foes.
I'd like to point that BG2, while epic, wasn't about saving the world at all, but just getting back your own soul.
Epic is more about a feeling and storytelling than the scale of the threat you fight. BG2 felt huge and full of adventure, THAT was the epic part. DA2 may be also about a self-centered tale, but it just was a long serie of hack'n'slash wave encounters with completely bland and replaceable foes.
#48
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 08:38
Brockololly
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Depends on what you mean by epic.
Origins had a more "epic" story in that it was on a larger scale with the whole "save the world" type story. Maybe its more vanilla than some like, but Origins did it pretty well overall in that it gave you some measure of feeling involved and that what you were doing mattered in the world.
Thats not to say that every story need be an "epic" save the world story- BG2 was plenty epic but revolved around basically saving your soul. A "rise to power" story sounds plenty epic to me, but in reality and in execution, DA2 never really engaged me to the extent that I felt involved in what Hawke was doing.
DA2's supposedly more "personal" story never really engaged me long enough to care about what Hawke was doing because Hawke was never really doing anything, only reacting to crap that was happening around him, with the "personal" elements like the family often feeling forced on the player and never given time to grow on the player's terms.
Its fine to have the occasional event where you're rendered powerless like with Hawke's mom, but the entire game is mostly just Hawke reacting and rarely leaving the player with moments of empowerment or meaningful choice, just the narrative railroading you down a set path, not even doing a good job of providing the illusion of choice like past BioWare games have done.
Exactly- "epic" need not mean "save the world."
Origins had a more "epic" story in that it was on a larger scale with the whole "save the world" type story. Maybe its more vanilla than some like, but Origins did it pretty well overall in that it gave you some measure of feeling involved and that what you were doing mattered in the world.
Thats not to say that every story need be an "epic" save the world story- BG2 was plenty epic but revolved around basically saving your soul. A "rise to power" story sounds plenty epic to me, but in reality and in execution, DA2 never really engaged me to the extent that I felt involved in what Hawke was doing.
DA2's supposedly more "personal" story never really engaged me long enough to care about what Hawke was doing because Hawke was never really doing anything, only reacting to crap that was happening around him, with the "personal" elements like the family often feeling forced on the player and never given time to grow on the player's terms.
Its fine to have the occasional event where you're rendered powerless like with Hawke's mom, but the entire game is mostly just Hawke reacting and rarely leaving the player with moments of empowerment or meaningful choice, just the narrative railroading you down a set path, not even doing a good job of providing the illusion of choice like past BioWare games have done.
Akka le Vil wrote...
So many people make a parallel between "epic" and "save the world".
I'd like to point that BG2, while epic, wasn't about saving the world at all, but just getting back your own soul.
Epic is more about a feeling and storytelling than the scale of the threat you fight. BG2 felt huge and full of adventure, THAT was the epic part. DA2 may be also about a self-centered tale, but it just was a long serie of hack'n'slash wave encounters with completely bland and replaceable foes.
Exactly- "epic" need not mean "save the world."
Modifié par Brockololly, 11 juin 2011 - 08:43 .
#49
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 08:41
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
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Akka le Vil wrote...
So many people make a parallel between "epic" and "save the world".
I'd like to point that BG2, while epic, wasn't about saving the world at all, but just getting back your own soul.
Epic is more about a feeling and storytelling than the scale of the threat you fight. BG2 felt huge and full of adventure, THAT was the epic part. DA2 may be also about a self-centered tale, but it just was a long serie of hack'n'slash wave encounters with completely bland and replaceable foes.
^My thoughts exactly. PS:T was about finding your own death, and that had the same "epic" feeling that BG2 does.
#50
Posté 11 juin 2011 - 08:51
Zanallen
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Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't think it's getting tiresome. It's not about the destination, but about the people you bond with on your quest to save the world. What reason did Fenris have to stick around in Kirkwall for 7 years, for instance? None. Because there was no sense of urgency that the save the world plot brings, DA2 felt kind of unfinished and disjointed to me. A lot of characters could've used some fleshing out, as well. My personal opinion, of course.
You felt a sense of urgency in Origins? I didn't. If there was a real sense of urgency, the Warden and Alistair would have split up to hit two groups at once and not spend a year trying to gain their army. And what will reason did the companions in Origins have to stick around? Alistair, sure. But Morrigan? Her mother said so. Leliana? The Maker said so. Sten? You freed him from a cage and the Arishok said so. Zevran? You spared him so he's going to risk his life to help you. Oghren? No idea. I assume he was just drunk and had no other options. Wynne? No idea either. These people with their own lives suddenly decide to risk their lives and help the Warden against the Darkspawn when many, many other people decide to run off and save themselves. None of the companions in Origins, save Alistair I suppose, seem like the heroic type.
