169 réponses à ce sujet

[DreamwareStudio]

relhart wrote...

The only part of DAO I really thought was "epic" was the Deep roads. Huge sprawling dungeon to explore (when compared to the rest of the game) with a cool story line/ending behind it. ALL of DAO should have been like that imo. Most people around these parts list it as one of their least favorite parts of DAO however. The rest of the story areas felt too short, and just.. obviously contrived and generic, which is pretty much how all of DA2 feels to me.

Other than the Landsmeet anyways, which I also thought was great, mostly because of Loghain(Templeton) though. I might even put him above Irenicus as my fav Bio "villian". (heresy I know).

Loghain was a good redeemable villain, but nowhere near the level of Irenicus in sheer cunning and overall dastardlyness.  The same could be said in comparing Loghain's shadow while playing DA:O and that of Irenicus in BG 2.  I remember getting chills in the cut scenes and dream sequences with Irenicus, an impending feeling of trouble ahead.  Loghain didn't once hit me the same way, especially because there was so little threat from him after Ostagar.  This isn't as much a slight on Loghain as it seemed.  I liked Loghain's passion and conviction.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

wait you could be forced to actually annul the Circle?


or are you saying that that's what should've been done?

Well it would have made sense, but if you want something less grim. Then have less mages survive as time goes on. Or less Templars survive as the abominations broke out of the tower. 

Instead of seeing Wynne holding a barrier, we can see her pretty wounded and on the verge of dying. Stuff like that.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

wait you could be forced to actually annul the Circle?


or are you saying that that's what should've been done?

Well it would have made sense, but if you want something less grim. Then have less mages survive as time goes on. Or less Templars survive as the abominations broke out of the tower. 

Instead of seeing Wynne holding a barrier, we can see her pretty wounded and on the verge of dying. Stuff like that.

Yeah, something like that could also work, though I prefer the idea that if you leave that quest for last or before last, you arrive in the middle of the execution of the Right of Annulment itself.

Basically, anything that reminded you that if you took too long to do things, sh!t would happen.

[TEWR]

Those would've conveyed a better sense of urgency, 'tis true.


If DAO was an open world type game with many villages and cities we could easily get a sense of urgency. Blighted lands, destroyed villages, people dying left and right.

Honnleath was probably the best example of the Blight destroying a village that we saw.

[TEWR]

I prefer Alistair's version of the speech over Anora's.


Anora's just sounds so badly voiced over.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 juin 2011 - 10:59 .

[bleetman]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Instead of seeing Wynne holding a barrier, we can see her pretty wounded and on the verge of dying. Stuff like that.

I do like the idea of leaving the circle until last and having Wynne maintain the barrier for months.

"It made me very weary at times". Yeah, I bet.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I prefer Alistair's speech over Anora's.


Anora's just sounds so badly voiced over.

I had hoped that sparing Loghain would make him give the speech. Oh, if only

Modifié par bleetman, 11 juin 2011 - 11:01 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Honnleath was probably the best example of the Blight destroying a village that we saw.

Not grim enough. We needed to see people suffering horribly from the taint. Ideally, put a few children in there.
The Deep Roads kind of did that, but it didn't feel urgent enough, it was underground.

[TEWR]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Honnleath was probably the best example of the Blight destroying a village that we saw.

Not grim enough. We needed to see people suffering horribly from the taint. Ideally, put a few children in there.
The Deep Roads kind of did that, but it didn't feel urgent enough, it was underground.

Oh I know it wasn't grim enough. Just the best out of what we got.


All the more reason I want to see an open world Dragon Age game. It could help tell the stories so much.

[Zjarcal]

simfamSP wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Honnleath was probably the best example of the Blight destroying a village that we saw.

Not grim enough. We needed to see people suffering horribly from the taint. Ideally, put a few children in there.
The Deep Roads kind of did that, but it didn't feel urgent enough, it was underground.

Yeah... Bioware need to go to NWN in terms of atmosphere. The city of Neverwinter was really well done... despite the odd graphics.

Heh, now that I recall, watching the city of Neverwinter get devoured by the Wailing Death was indeed well done. It certainly made me feel like this was serious business.

[Zjarcal]

simfamSP wrote...

jollyorigins wrote...

DA:O: "Before us stands the might of the Darkspawn Horde! gaze upon them now, but fear them not! The man standing beside me is a native of Ferelden, now risen to the ranks of the Grey Wardens! He is proof that glory is within reach of us all! He has survived despite the odds, and without him, none of us would be here! Today we save Denerim! Today we avenge the death of my brother King Cailan! But most of all, today we show the Grey Wardens we remember and honor their sacrifice! For Ferelden! FOR THE GREY WARDENS!!!"

DA2: "So, this is it. Some of you are worried. Maybe I am too but I'm not staying long enough to find out. What I know, is that I don't like being cornered, and I can fight harder scared than they can angry. We're getting out...and I'm buying when we do."

Yes, I do miss the epic feel of DA:O.

Writing was effected greatly due to the time limit. Some writers can bring up great things in seconds, others need to go over work and polish them until they are happy. It doesn't mean one is better than other. Try writing a fan fiction, short and sweet. It's hard to come up with some memorable lines some times.

And also, the situation that Hawke was in compared to the situation of Denerim makes it harder for the writers to come up with some masterpiece.

Also, that's the sarcastic version of the speech if I'm correct. I felt that the aggresive one was much more well done.

[Collider]

Sometimes I very vaguely miss it.
But then I remember how generic the overall plot of Origins is (and how badly paced it was), and am then glad I am playing DA2 instead.

[dragonflight288]

Another epic part of Origins was the crowning of the Dwarven King. It's especially personal if you played a Dwarven Noble origin. All the deshyrs pounding their staves into the stone floor as Harrowmont/Bhelen kneels before the Shaper and is crowned King of Orzammar.

Why isn't there anything like that in DA2? No crowning (pun not intended...at first) glory.

[_Aine_]

jollyorigins wrote...

DA:O: "Before us stands the might of the Darkspawn Horde! gaze upon them now, but fear them not! The man standing beside me is a native of Ferelden, now risen to the ranks of the Grey Wardens! He is proof that glory is within reach of us all! He has survived despite the odds, and without him, none of us would be here! Today we save Denerim! Today we avenge the death of my brother King Cailan! But most of all, today we show the Grey Wardens we remember and honor their sacrifice! For Ferelden! FOR THE GREY WARDENS!!!"

DA2: "So, this is it. Some of you are worried. Maybe I am too but I'm not staying long enough to find out. What I know, is that I don't like being cornered, and I can fight harder scared than they can angry. We're getting out...and I'm buying when we do."

Yes, I do miss the epic feel of DA:O.

Wow. Yeah, I really did miss speeches like that.    DA2 was far more casual in comparison.  

I actually wouldn't mind the loss of the "epicness" if it had something solid that replaced it.  People say it was a sense of helplessness but that wasn't what it was *supposed* to be, or they should have billed it and marketed it as such. You don't have to say " You will be pushed around and have no control on the world whatsoever" but they could have said *something* more accurate like "experience the emotional blah blah blah of a city in turmoil blah blah" instead of making me feel like there *would* be a rise to power, simply one that never does come.  

I am fine with powerlessness, fine with emotional rollercoasters that ultimately rip my world out from under me. Fine even still not *knowing* that would happen, but this was billed as something it was not.  What it promised, it never really did intend to achieve.      Was this a marketing disconnect? Perhaps, because I have heard the exact same " EPIC!  Choice! Consequence! " billed for ME3.    

Maybe they just need to communicate better between their marketing people and their ...well, everyone else.  Maybe marketing just needs to accept that the public is smart enough to handle the truth without it having a catchy hook.  Or, be smart enough to create a hook out of the truth.  

I think they just changed too much, all at once.  They made it a merge of genres to the extent it lost most of its identity.  They lost its seriousness, it's semi-formality in story presentation and it became something very casual and mass-consumption (kind of like a harlequin romance in comparison to a classic novel) and then they changed the art style and combat style.  All of these changes made it something almost foreign to itself.    

It didn't lose its epic because it tried and failed, it lost it because it purposely walked away from it but forgot or chose not to advertise it appropriately.    It almost seemed like it didn't take itself seriously anymore.  Which to me was the saddest part, because I liked the world, the people and the story.   When the game pokes fun at itself, yes, it can be amusing, but it breaks the fourth wall to a certain degree too.  Dangerous, if you want to be taken seriously.   And if you want it to be immersive.

All in all, I liked the game enough to play it several times to completion and many playthroughs not finished yet.   It just doesn't erase what I consider to be flaws that let a great idea down. 

[hoorayforicecream]

jollyorigins wrote...

DA:O: "Before us stands the might of the Darkspawn Horde! gaze upon them now, but fear them not! The man standing beside me is a native of Ferelden, now risen to the ranks of the Grey Wardens! He is proof that glory is within reach of us all! He has survived despite the odds, and without him, none of us would be here! Today we save Denerim! Today we avenge the death of my brother King Cailan! But most of all, today we show the Grey Wardens we remember and honor their sacrifice! For Ferelden! FOR THE GREY WARDENS!!!"

DA2: "So, this is it. Some of you are worried. Maybe I am too but I'm not staying long enough to find out. What I know, is that I don't like being cornered, and I can fight harder scared than they can angry. We're getting out...and I'm buying when we do."

Yes, I do miss the epic feel of DA:O.

I actually preferred the second one to the first. 

Speeches like the former are very different than speeches like the latter. In the first one, you've got Alistair addressing an entire army, full of people he doesn't know and has to inspire with (mostly cheesy) rhetoric. They're going into a full scale battle with hundreds or thousands of combatants.

The second speech is a pep talk given by a single leader to his or her group of close friends. It's two totally different situations.

[Brockololly]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Speeches like the former are very different than speeches like the latter. In the first one, you've got Alistair addressing an entire army, full of people he doesn't know and has to inspire with (mostly cheesy) rhetoric. They're going into a full scale battle with hundreds or thousands of combatants.

Part of the problem with  the end game of DA2 is that it seems like its trying way too hard to imitate the same sort of vibe from the end game of Origins and it just doesn't work nearly as well because the stakes don't seem nearly as high as Origins.

So when you have your big huge rally speech in Origins, its with the stake of a country and likely a good chunk of the world at stake. If they failed in Denerim, who knows how much more destruction the Blight would have caused? As generic as some might think that played out, I thought it worked going off of what the story was trying to do.

In DA2, the endgame in Act 3 is mostly what? A bunch of morons who have the combined IQ of a moldy peanut who can't just get their **** together and talk stuff out due to a sketchy Plot Hammer moment and MacGuffin induced insanity and idiocy. I get what they were going for, but the whole of Act 3 felt like so much of a reach in terms of believablity and logic that it felt too often they were trying to hit the same sort of "epic" notes as Denerim in Origins when the story needed to go someplace totally different.

So you end up with the awkward goodbyes and the hokey speech at the end by Hawke (which didn't even make the most use of the voiced PC via player input in the speech like ME does) when the stakes are much lower than Origins.

Its true for most of the game IMO, but especially at the end of Act 3, I got the impression BioWare was going into "Oh ****, this game is due out in a couple months we need to wrap this up now now NOW." And they more or less fell back on the more formulaic "epic" type endgame Origins had, except it doesn't really make any sense given the situation, not to mention it doesn't even hold up as well as the previously same sort of "epic" conclusion to Act 2.

[Jerrybnsn]

The definition of epic is something on a grand scale. Origins was on a grand scale on the amount of places, quests, the characters, decisions that effect the ending of the game,....I don't think that publishers will ever be able to take the time to make a game like that again. Origins will go down in gaming history as one of the best.

[Sidney]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

b00mQQ wrote...

Whatsupnewyork wrote...

For example: The Battle of Ostagar was more epic than anything in Dragon Age 2.

I agree that The Battle of Ostagar was great content. Better than the rest of Dragon Age: Origins combined, but why are we comparing DLC from Dragon Age: Origins to the core game in DragonA ge II? DLC is almost always better and more engaging because as they release more and more DLC they find out what the game is really capliable of.

The Battle of Ostagar is not the same as the DLC Return to Ostagar.

Yes but I do so wish that someone would bother to explain just a teeny tiny bit about battles so that the battle scenes don't look so stupid. Instead of being sucked into the battle I was trying to figure out why they're not shooting arrows as soon as the spawn are in range (wait, wait, wait), why there are no field fortifications and so on.

[eye basher]

what epic feeling you mean the one were im supposed to be playing a game but insted find out that the game just plays by itself and beats itself.Or the feeling were i go place after place crushing the pathetic masses of enemies with my unstopable 4 man army.Or the feeling of when i get to the archdemon the baddest mofo around but find out that he's just another lame ass i can kill just as easily as any other darkspawn nope don't miis any of hose feelings.