351 réponses à ce sujet

[The Dubious]

I don't see JRPG relevance in DA:2 at all and never did... never did I think Final Fantasy instead I thought about Halo:ODST the very first time I saw those thugs leap from rooftops... who knows they could have been in cahoots with the Assassin's from AC.

[Funkjoker]

We can go all out and drink a beer now that this is settled 

In The Witcher you can get drunk. I hope BioWare implements something like this in a future game. DA would be good ^^

[Zanallen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all Bioware games follow the game basic pattern. There is a flow chart lying around somewhere.

But those cliches were done well. DA2's story is a barely coherent mess. It's just so disjointed.

While they may have been done well, I would love to play an open world DA game instead of a "Travel from Point A to B, back to A, over to F, back to B, and then to Point Zero."

Well, Bioware has no real experience with open world games so it would all be pretty new. Maybe if TOR does well and actually turns a profit, Bioware will be able to expand out to different aspects of the RPG genre.

[Harid]

Zanallen wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Almost all Bioware games follow the game basic pattern. There is a flow chart lying around somewhere.

But those cliches were done well. DA2's story is a barely coherent mess. It's just so disjointed.

While they may have been done well, I would love to play an open world DA game instead of a "Travel from Point A to B, back to A, over to F, back to B, and then to Point Zero."

Well, Bioware has no real experience with open world games so it would all be pretty new. Maybe if TOR does well and actually turns a profit, Bioware will be able to expand out to different aspects of the RPG genre.

Pretty sure if TOR does well, look forward to an awesome new Mass Effect MMO!

[Zanallen]

Harid wrote...

But therein lies the trouble, places are already destroyed by the time reapers reach earth.  It would be foolish to deny help, and it's equally foolish that places that didn't have problems before are all of a sudden erupting into bedlam.  The galaxy is still open, and news is known on what these things are doing.  Furthermore it kind of aids to make ME2 pointless.

But I digress.  I don't want to side track this thread any further than it has been already.

Oh I agree. However, the council doesn't seem particularly intelligent. And what is already destroyed by the time the Reapers reach Earth?

[TEWR]

Is it really that hard to make an open world game of great quality?

[Zanallen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Is it really that hard to make an open world game of great quality?

Depends. What do you consider an example of an open world game with great quality?

Also, Bioware would probably have to scrap companions in such a game. Which I don't think they are willing to do any time soon.

[Bejos_]

Wolfborn Son wrote...

My apologies.  I didn't see your response to him.  Of course, that doesn't change the fact that I don't really see that much "anime" or "JRPG" influence in DAII.   I won't deny that a lot of the game is over the top, sometimes insanely so.  That said, I see more "300" in it than I do "Final Fantasy".   In my eyes, the art and gameplay is still very much "Western".  But it isn't traditional at least as far as fantasy goes.

Traditionality (is that a word?) of style, I could care less about. Make it whatever you want it to be. Hell, I loved Okami, and Silent Hill, and ... Quest for Glory 4, and they're pretty out there. I don't care what style it's in, so long as that style is properly executed. And because it's trying to be a WRPG-FPS-Action game, it fails at having any kind of consistent style.
If the play framework was more in line with God of War, I'd be completely okay with playing the game that way. If the play framework was more in line with FFXII, I'd be completely okay with playing the game that way, too. As it is, they tried to keep some of DA:O while inexpertly moving other things around or removing them altogether, and its just a mess.

The whole game is a mess. Nothing is consistent and nothing makes sense.

If they were trying to make "300"-- i.e. God of War-- they failed. I see more elements of anime in there than I do of ... whatever artstyle 300 was made in. I'm not convinced they wanted to make an anime/JRPG-whatever else hybrid, either. I think they just started making so many mistakes and were so rushed, and didn't plan well enough ahead, that this is what they ended up with.

Also, my apologies, then.

Modifié par Bejos_, 13 juin 2011 - 08:36 .

[Harid]

Zanallen wrote...

Harid wrote...

But therein lies the trouble, places are already destroyed by the time reapers reach earth.  It would be foolish to deny help, and it's equally foolish that places that didn't have problems before are all of a sudden erupting into bedlam.  The galaxy is still open, and news is known on what these things are doing.  Furthermore it kind of aids to make ME2 pointless.

But I digress.  I don't want to side track this thread any further than it has been already.

Oh I agree. However, the council doesn't seem particularly intelligent. And what is already destroyed by the time the Reapers reach Earth?

They got those asari, Krogan, and Batarian husks from somewhere, afaik, I swear Batarian's empire falls first, and with the Universe not shut down by the Reapers due to ME1, well. ..people would know about the coming threat.

As for why it's hard to make a good open world game, look at everything Zenimax/Bethesda makes.  Open world games are buggy as hell because there are many variables that are easy to miss and may or may not be hard to fix.

I also agree with the above poster.  One of my biggest problems with Bioware is lack of consistant graphical style.  Especially in DA, where they keep you in one region, one would expect things to have a similar feel and look, but because of it, what ends up happening is it looks like they just throw a bunch of random things together because of awesome.

Modifié par Harid, 13 juin 2011 - 08:40 .

[Bejos_]

Zanallen, if you missed it, check page 10 for my reply.

[AngryFrozenWater]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Is it really that hard to make an open world game of great quality?

A lot of people think that an open world is limited by a TES-type of gameplay. I think that you can still have BioWare story lines in such a world. In that case the open world merely serves as a huge stage. One advantage is that you wouldn't need the DA:O/DA2-type of maps and forced random encounters during location change, because you would encounter them in a natural way during traveling. Because in BW games story telling is very important the size of such a world wouldn't need to be that massive. It can also add a sense of exploration.

[TEWR]

Zanallen wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Is it really that hard to make an open world game of great quality?

Depends. What do you consider an example of an open world game with great quality?

Also, Bioware would probably have to scrap companions in such a game. Which I don't think they are willing to do any time soon.

I don't think companions would have to disappear. Fallout 3 had companions (the annoying part for me, though I liked how real it was, was that they could die. I liked and disliked it if that makes sense). Fawkes and Dogmeat FTW!

Note: I wouldn't want companions to die like FO3 did.


But to me they'd need an engine that can make the environment seem amazing (TW2's I guess or FFXIII's) and a lot of cities and villages depending on the setting. Depending on the story, there should be things to reflect what's going on.

Like the Blight. Were DA:O an open world game we should've stumbled across destroyed villages, a destroyed Lothering, ghoul survivors, etc. If we were a Human Noble, we should've been able to travel to Highever to retake our lands from some lackey of Howe's who was overseeing things.

There should also be weather effects. Bioware did make a few maps in origins and Awakening that had weather effects as a fixed thingy.

Cities and villages should also feel alive. Fleeing from battles, joining in if they're soldiers or guards, etc. FFXIII had the citizens commenting on you battling PSICOM.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 juin 2011 - 08:53 .

[Wolfborn Son]

Bejos_ wrote...

Wolfborn Son wrote...

My apologies.  I didn't see your response to him.  Of course, that doesn't change the fact that I don't really see that much "anime" or "JRPG" influence in DAII.   I won't deny that a lot of the game is over the top, sometimes insanely so.  That said, I see more "300" in it than I do "Final Fantasy".   In my eyes, the art and gameplay is still very much "Western".  But it isn't traditional at least as far as fantasy goes.

Traditionality (is that a word?) of style, I could care less about. Make it whatever you want it to be. Hell, I loved Okami, and Silent Hill, and ... Quest for Glory 4, and they're pretty out there. I don't care what style it's in, so long as that style is properly executed. And because it's trying to be a WRPG-FPS-Action game, it fails at having any kind of consistent style.
If the play framework was more in line with God of War, I'd be completely okay with playing the game that way. If the play framework was more in line with FFXII, I'd be completely okay with playing the game that way, too. As it is, they tried to keep some of DA:O while inexpertly moving other things around or removing them altogether, and its just a mess.

The whole game is a mess. Nothing is consistent and nothing makes sense.

If they were trying to make "300"-- i.e. God of War-- they failed. I see more elements of anime in there than I do of ... whatever artstyle 300 was made in. I'm not convinced they wanted to make an anime/JRPG-whatever else hybrid, either. I think they just started making so many mistakes and were so rushed, and didn't plan well enough ahead, that this is what they ended up with.

Also, my apologies, then.

No problem.  The internet is a place where a missed post can lead to misunderstandings and where text doesn't always transfer emotion.

And I'll agree with you, for the most part.  While I did enjoy DAII for what it was, the game did feel as if it didn't know what the hell it wanted to do.  I blame it on part because it was rushed and in part because Bioware seemed to want to make it its own game, rather than a Baldur's Gate clone... But really didn't have the time to really think about where they wanted to go with it.

Part of me wished they'd just get the D&D licence back and do the Baldur's Gate games in HD.  Everyone would be happy then, right?

.

[T764]

Guns wrote...

Just because it had the same graphical style as D&D, Witcher, and Elder Scrolls doesn't mean it was a copy. It had its own unique story, world, characters and different gameplay than those. In fact pretty much the only similarity is graphics and boo hoo they're strived for realistic graphics.

(My damn internet went down as i wrote my reply to this, and this response is therefore out of place and probably unnecessary.)

I don't  mean the same in terms of graphics or gameplay (and didn't mean to imply that it was a copy), the world and it's denizens could be just another continent in any of these worlds, they all have the same feelings to them.

When i see "realistic dark fantasy " i actually read "couldn't be bothered, slap some Elves into medieval Europe and it'll be fine", i find it bland and forgetable.

Disclaimer-
I am NOT suggesting that Dragon Age was made that way, i respect Bioware's artistic choice's even if do not like them.
I am also NOT saying that i think cliches, archetypes or generic stories are bad, if handled correctly they can work very well.  

[Alex Kershaw]

Agreed. It doesn't attract new players as they obviously hope since that market simply doesn't like story-driven games. All the exploding, etc, does is simply makes people look at it and roll their eyes, like when your 50 year old father tries to use 'hip' new words.

[Guns]

Zanallen wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

What..... were...... those....


my God that's gotta be the worst voice acting I've ever heard. And the fact that what was chasing the girl in the second clip hardly looked menacing doesn't help the game either.

The game would have been so much better if you could have played as Crowe: www.youtube.com/watch

That was extremely painful to watch for the 20 seconds I watched it. 

[colata]

Dark serious story doesn't go well with cartoonish art style,

I liked sort of realistic finish animation of ogre killing in DA:O

Now they tried cartoon art style, maybe realistic bruises, and cut on enemies and player characters would be interesting thing to make in DA3?
Kinda realistic movement like Batman Arkam Asylum is somehing DA didn't try before.

If it moves and looks close to real thing, ppl might immerse themselves better than they did with kiddie cartoonish style.

Modifié par colata, 13 juin 2011 - 11:52 .

[dheer]

Luke Barrett wrote...
You wanted Johnny Lawrence to win, didn't you? Cobra Kai!

Sweep the leg!

[Theagg]

colata wrote...

Dark serious story doesn't go well with cartoonish art style,

I liked sort of realistic finish animation of ogre killing in DA:O

Now they tried cartoon art style, maybe realistic bruises, and cut on enemies and player characters would be interesting thing to make in DA3?
Kinda realistic movement like Batman Arkam Asylum is somehing DA didn't try before.

If it moves and looks close to real thing, ppl might immerse themselves better than they did with kiddie cartoonish style.

The Ogre finishing move in Origins is incredibly cartoonish though. How does someone leap that high ?!

[Harid]

Wolfborn Son wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

Wolfborn Son wrote...

My apologies.  I didn't see your response to him.  Of course, that doesn't change the fact that I don't really see that much "anime" or "JRPG" influence in DAII.   I won't deny that a lot of the game is over the top, sometimes insanely so.  That said, I see more "300" in it than I do "Final Fantasy".   In my eyes, the art and gameplay is still very much "Western".  But it isn't traditional at least as far as fantasy goes.

Traditionality (is that a word?) of style, I could care less about. Make it whatever you want it to be. Hell, I loved Okami, and Silent Hill, and ... Quest for Glory 4, and they're pretty out there. I don't care what style it's in, so long as that style is properly executed. And because it's trying to be a WRPG-FPS-Action game, it fails at having any kind of consistent style.
If the play framework was more in line with God of War, I'd be completely okay with playing the game that way. If the play framework was more in line with FFXII, I'd be completely okay with playing the game that way, too. As it is, they tried to keep some of DA:O while inexpertly moving other things around or removing them altogether, and its just a mess.

The whole game is a mess. Nothing is consistent and nothing makes sense.

If they were trying to make "300"-- i.e. God of War-- they failed. I see more elements of anime in there than I do of ... whatever artstyle 300 was made in. I'm not convinced they wanted to make an anime/JRPG-whatever else hybrid, either. I think they just started making so many mistakes and were so rushed, and didn't plan well enough ahead, that this is what they ended up with.

Also, my apologies, then.

No problem.  The internet is a place where a missed post can lead to misunderstandings and where text doesn't always transfer emotion.

And I'll agree with you, for the most part.  While I did enjoy DAII for what it was, the game did feel as if it didn't know what the hell it wanted to do.  I blame it on part because it was rushed and in part because Bioware seemed to want to make it its own game, rather than a Baldur's Gate clone... But really didn't have the time to really think about where they wanted to go with it.

Part of me wished they'd just get the D&D licence back and do the Baldur's Gate games in HD.  Everyone would be happy then, right?

.

Well, no.  Melee classes in BG were ****ty mook classes to mages, and good luck trying to translate BG to consoles.

[AlanC9]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...
One advantage is that you wouldn't need the DA:O/DA2-type of maps and forced random encounters during location change, because you would encounter them in a natural way during traveling.

So you'd spawn them out of perception range at some appropriate poin?You'd be liable to have all kinds of emergent behaviors that way unless the random events could happen nowhere near anything else. Playing a TES game I expect silliness; I'm not sure I'd want that in a Bio game.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 juin 2011 - 03:57 .

[Guns]

Theagg wrote...

colata wrote...

Dark serious story doesn't go well with cartoonish art style,

I liked sort of realistic finish animation of ogre killing in DA:O

Now they tried cartoon art style, maybe realistic bruises, and cut on enemies and player characters would be interesting thing to make in DA3?
Kinda realistic movement like Batman Arkam Asylum is somehing DA didn't try before.

If it moves and looks close to real thing, ppl might immerse themselves better than they did with kiddie cartoonish style.

The Ogre finishing move in Origins is incredibly cartoonish though. How does someone leap that high ?!

It is about an extra 2 feet higher than a normal one, but for the most part that is still executible. Disappearing and having corpses explode from a slice is in a whole 'nother league of rediculous. 

[Wolfborn Son]

Harid wrote...

Wolfborn Son wrote...

Bejos_ wrote...

Wolfborn Son wrote...

My apologies.  I didn't see your response to him.  Of course, that doesn't change the fact that I don't really see that much "anime" or "JRPG" influence in DAII.   I won't deny that a lot of the game is over the top, sometimes insanely so.  That said, I see more "300" in it than I do "Final Fantasy".   In my eyes, the art and gameplay is still very much "Western".  But it isn't traditional at least as far as fantasy goes.

Traditionality (is that a word?) of style, I could care less about. Make it whatever you want it to be. Hell, I loved Okami, and Silent Hill, and ... Quest for Glory 4, and they're pretty out there. I don't care what style it's in, so long as that style is properly executed. And because it's trying to be a WRPG-FPS-Action game, it fails at having any kind of consistent style.
If the play framework was more in line with God of War, I'd be completely okay with playing the game that way. If the play framework was more in line with FFXII, I'd be completely okay with playing the game that way, too. As it is, they tried to keep some of DA:O while inexpertly moving other things around or removing them altogether, and its just a mess.

The whole game is a mess. Nothing is consistent and nothing makes sense.

If they were trying to make "300"-- i.e. God of War-- they failed. I see more elements of anime in there than I do of ... whatever artstyle 300 was made in. I'm not convinced they wanted to make an anime/JRPG-whatever else hybrid, either. I think they just started making so many mistakes and were so rushed, and didn't plan well enough ahead, that this is what they ended up with.

Also, my apologies, then.

No problem.  The internet is a place where a missed post can lead to misunderstandings and where text doesn't always transfer emotion.

And I'll agree with you, for the most part.  While I did enjoy DAII for what it was, the game did feel as if it didn't know what the hell it wanted to do.  I blame it on part because it was rushed and in part because Bioware seemed to want to make it its own game, rather than a Baldur's Gate clone... But really didn't have the time to really think about where they wanted to go with it.

Part of me wished they'd just get the D&D licence back and do the Baldur's Gate games in HD.  Everyone would be happy then, right?

.

Well, no.  Melee classes in BG were ****ty mook classes to mages, and good luck trying to translate BG to consoles.

...The same could be said about DA, too.  'sides, if spec'd right, Fighters and Paladins were beasts.  And BG would translate about as well as DA:O on consoles.  You can take that, however you want.  The real issue would be if they'd be forced to use 4E D&D as the rule set. 

[Onyx Jaguar]

But I thought the lack of glowings swords in DA 2 was a major letdown when compared to DA:O and the awesome runeage you could administer to your weapons

Whats the point of magic if you can't make **** look cool