351 réponses à ce sujet

[hexaligned]

Zanallen wrote...

relhart wrote...

I don't even really care if they want to make more JRPG flavored games, as long as they are GOOD JRPG flavored games, not the ridiculous cheesy mess DA2 was.  Granted the last pure JRPG I think I actually played was Phantasy Star 4, back when I was like, 6, it seems like EA would be aspiring to make better games than 20 year old console games though.

You didn't like FF4 or 6? Chrono Trigger? Secret of Mana? Suikoden 2?

I prefer JRPG strategy RPG's (Shining force, FF tactics, Last Remnent, ect.) over the more pure variety, it's more a matter of not ever really trying those games you mentioned.  I mean I can play them for a bit, I've played all the FF's for a few hours,  I just get bored of them easily, too railroady for my particular taste.

[Zanallen]

relhart wrote...

I prefer JRPG strategy RPG's (Shining force, FF tactics, Last Remnent, ect.) over the more pure variety, it's more a matter of not ever really trying those games you mentioned.  I mean I can play them for a bit, I've played all the FF's for a few hours,  I just get bored of them easily, too railroady for my particular taste.

I would reccommend the Suikoden series. It has turn-based combat for the most part, usually with a six person squad and various combinations depending on who you bring with you. There is also several "war" battles that play kind of like strategy games, at least from 2 on, and a few duels that work like rock paper scissors where you pick an attack based on what you think your opponent will use. The games are generally political in nature with warring nations and such and each one has 108 recruitable party members. Most are usable on combat, but some serve to add functions to your homebase; inns, shops, etc.

[hexaligned]

I have a dim memory of that game I think, I remember like.. a Duck party member, and... bases I had to leave people behind to defend.. or something along those lines. Most of these games I played as a kid, I much prefer the western style as I've grown more old and cynical, the cartoony stuff just tends to irritate me now. I may check it out on my emulator if I get bored enough at work though.

[Zanallen]

Yeah, Suikoden 3 and its Duck Clan. Sigh...Each game offers a random animal type companion that is generally useless. Suikoden 3 made the mistake of making the Duck Clan useful and actually prominent. I'd recommend Suikoden II as probably the best in the series.

[Clover Rider]

DA2 was just as JRPG as DA:O was.

Modifié par Some Geth, 11 juin 2011 - 09:51 .

[RaptorSigh]

Sten winding up for a swing with his axe was intimidating and a joy to watch. Fenris twirling around with an axe bigger then he is, is less so (love him though I do).

In DA:O I could FEEL the sword combat in my hands when a heavy swing was parried. One example: When fighting her family's murderer, my Warden finally went in for the kill, but at the last possible second he parried her sword. My heart sank. While she was reeling, the guy charged after her and took her out, only to be immediately slammed by her mabari, pinned down and killed in a very vicious, very satisfying way. It was perfect.

There were barely any gritty combat moments in DA2 that made me clutch the controller like that. The only one I can remember is when Anders and his lover-mage were fighting side-by-side, crossed Winters Grasp to get archers on the opposite sides of the screen, then combined three Tempests with Merril to fry the Templars in the center (my corneas!). But that's it. No grit, just flashy pew-pewing.*

But if comparing mages to warriors seems unfair, my first DA2 character was a weapon-and-shield warrior and even less satisfying then my mage. You basically just use a talent and you're definitely going to hit them with lightning-fast strikes, it's just a question of how much damage it'll do. That's definite JRPG territory.

I just want some of my precious gravity back, my swords to be parried, characters pushing off the ground and chasing after someone, not snowboarding, or teleporting, or repeatedly somersaulting against an ogre's leg (funny, but then, not). I want to be so "into" it that I unconsciously mimic sword-swinging actions with my shoulders and can't sit still. In DA2, I just felt like I was whittling away at a piece of wood, or popping balloons.

The speed of the combat (not the speed of the animations) did grow on me, though. I'd prefer DA3's speed to be somewhere between DA:O's brickiness and DA2's pinballing.

But I do have to admit to liking the mage animations, especially when they slam the butt of the staff on the ground, or when someone gets too close and you mercilessly beat them in the face. I dunno why some didn't enjoy that.



* a footanote, "pew" is the sound a staff makes when you shoot it.

[Monica83]

Huntress wrote...

DAO perfect?
Combat animation for mages improved alot in DA2, hell with that! Mages improved by 100%!, not only the staff waving thing, thats what everyone also focus, the ability for them to MOVE away from a mele attack is 100% better, thats what I miss when I play DAO.
When I play DA2 I miss finishing move from Dw warriors and rogues, I miss DW warrior all together but, yes finishing moves are so cool in DAO.
Crafting system in DAO and Awakening are just.. bad, DA2 improved that on my eyes, not need to make 1 alch/poison and wait for it to gain X level for me to learn and for me to be able use it if am able all together .. I rather find the materials and use it when I want and even if I get to use them at level 5, thats my choice. I use poison on my mages staff and when they get mele attack they slow the enemies, how cool is that??? lol

Dao wasn't perfect, DA2 is not perfect but yes, I like things from both games, thats what makes me going back and playing them.

Well some anims of the mage are nice... But if you make a bloodmage when you use the bloodmage speels you see your mage impale himself with the staff in the stomack this is too much XD

Anywais this manga style animastion have to disappear.. they are soo immersion breaking for me.. i don't find them cool.. only disturbing and laughtable...

Also the teleport charge of the warrior and the teleport backstab of the rougue have to disappear for me..

[daemon1129]

The fact that people thinks DA2 had anything in common with JRPGs is insulting, to JRPGs. Just because its large swords and flashy moves doesn't mean its anime inspired. In fact I think DA2's "flashy moves" are terrible. If it was actually anything like a JRPG, I wouldn't mind it, at least those were actually consistent within the game.

Its ok to have over the top animations if it make sense in the world you are creating. Devil May Cry's cutscenes have Dante doing ridiculous moves all the time, that is the character. FF have main characters with very "elegant" moves with posing and stuff because that is the style of the game. DA2 had none of that. Hawke don't teleport to the back of this target and kill them with the murder knife. In fact no cutscenes or any scripted events have any over the top animations. It is a more realistic approach to a fantasy setting, yet they disjointed it with the combat animations that makes no sense to the world.

[Jsixgun]

A hint of realism actually enhances the experience.

[Ryzaki]

daemon1129 wrote...

The fact that people thinks DA2 had anything in common with JRPGs is insulting, to JRPGs. Just because its large swords and flashy moves doesn't mean its anime inspired. In fact I think DA2's "flashy moves" are terrible. If it was actually anything like a JRPG, I wouldn't mind it, at least those were actually consistent within the game.

Its ok to have over the top animations if it make sense in the world you are creating. Devil May Cry's cutscenes have Dante doing ridiculous moves all the time, that is the character. FF have main characters with very "elegant" moves with posing and stuff because that is the style of the game. DA2 had none of that. Hawke don't teleport to the back of this target and kill them with the murder knife. In fact no cutscenes or any scripted events have any over the top animations. It is a more realistic approach to a fantasy setting, yet they disjointed it with the combat animations that makes no sense to the world.

 

This. 

JRPG =/= bad. 

If you think DA2 sucks say so. Don't try to insult JRPGs by comparing all of them to DA2. 

[DarkDragon777]

Hey, I'm barely 13 and I like Origins better. <.<

Dragon Age 2 is my least favorite Bioware game. (Actually my least favorite "RPG" in general)

[Yuqi]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Hey, I'm barely 13 and I like Origins better. <.<

Dragon Age 2 is my least favorite Bioware game. (Actually my least favorite "RPG" in general)

You shouldn't be playing an MA15 + game. Leave the adult games,to the adults.

Hmmn, I dident mind the jrpg combat. GOing back to origins combat,is slow...so very slow..

[ji.Ruichi]

Honestly I think Final Fantasy XIII > DAII. Both were flawed but XIII had better characters and story. DAII is just not sure about itself... seriously.

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Actually DA 2 was`t so bad as you making it. Instead of again trying to find a new artistic direction, they should just fix the problems it had and focus more on adding new content, so its really a long game with a much more meaningful choices that truly alters the story and not just replace few characters or few different lines of dialogue.

And this can only be done if they focus on content straight away, as i am sure EA won`t give them more then 3 years to make the game, (i still expect it summer-winter 2012).

And of course - NO re-used areas.

[Lethys1]

Yuqi wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Hey, I'm barely 13 and I like Origins better. <.<

Dragon Age 2 is my least favorite Bioware game. (Actually my least favorite "RPG" in general)

You shouldn't be playing an MA15 + game. Leave the adult games,to the adults.

Perhaps we shouldn't allow children to play the game because we want them to believe that their actions matter, and this game teaches the opposite lesson.

As for JRPG's, they usually don't allow the players to choose anything and affect the story.  I don't know why Bioware went with this JRPG design decision for Dragon Age 2.

Modifié par Lethys1, 12 juin 2011 - 06:44 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Ryzaki wrote...

daemon1129 wrote...

The fact that people thinks DA2 had anything in common with JRPGs is insulting, to JRPGs. Just because its large swords and flashy moves doesn't mean its anime inspired. In fact I think DA2's "flashy moves" are terrible. If it was actually anything like a JRPG, I wouldn't mind it, at least those were actually consistent within the game.

Its ok to have over the top animations if it make sense in the world you are creating. Devil May Cry's cutscenes have Dante doing ridiculous moves all the time, that is the character. FF have main characters with very "elegant" moves with posing and stuff because that is the style of the game. DA2 had none of that. Hawke don't teleport to the back of this target and kill them with the murder knife. In fact no cutscenes or any scripted events have any over the top animations. It is a more realistic approach to a fantasy setting, yet they disjointed it with the combat animations that makes no sense to the world.

 

This. 

JRPG =/= bad. 

If you think DA2 sucks say so. Don't try to insult JRPGs by comparing all of them to DA2. 

Yes, I have to agree here. DA 2 combined the worst of western RPGs and JRPGs into one, combined with a rushed schedule to create...a dish no one wants to eat.

There are good JRPGs (not Final Fantasy) and there are good western RPGs but they really don't need to get together and have a mutant lovechild like DA 2.

[AlanC9]

RaptorSigh wrote...

Sten winding up for a swing with his axe was intimidating and a joy to watch. Fenris twirling around with an axe bigger then he is, is less so (love him though I do).

Hmm.... I didn't feel that way at all. I may not be able to process those visuals outside of my knowledge of how combat actually works, and 2-H warriors just don't have enough DPS in DAO to be all that great.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 juin 2011 - 07:09 .

[Maconbar]

AlanC9 wrote...

RaptorSigh wrote...

Sten winding up for a swing with his axe was intimidating and a joy to watch. Fenris twirling around with an axe bigger then he is, is less so (love him though I do).

Hmm.... I didn't feel that way at all. I may not be able to process those visuals outside of my knowledge of how combat actually works, and 2-H warriors just don't have enough DPS in DAO to be all that great.

Yep, Sten's swings were too slow. No 2-handed weapon would be wielded that way. (This doesn't mean that I think that DA:2 animation are an improvement).

[ShadyKat]

Did someone say JRPG?!

[Funkjoker]

Ryzaki wrote...

JRPG =/= bad.

Wrong. JRPGs didn't evolve for the last 15(?) years. There's still the same princess you take along the journey and in the end you're still to make clear the cliched uber-evil guy doesn't control, destroy, change, whatever the world. Oh, and I really do have to see at least _one_ JRPG in which the first female chara you meet is not attracted to the main char. I could give an entire list.

Just look at this good chart. www.boingboing.net/2010/10/19/the-japanese-rpg-for.html

DA3 needs the look it had in DAO. Dark and mature. There is absolutely no need to make it cartoonish or anime like DA2 or all the Jgames. It's an absolute horrible style.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 12 juin 2011 - 02:15 .

[Salaya]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

Wrong. JRPGs didn't evolve for the last 15(?) years. There's still the same princess you take along the journey and in the end you're still to make clear the cliched uber-evil guy doesn't control, destroy, change, whatever the world. Oh, and I really do have to see at least _one_ JRPG in which the first female chara you meet is not attracted to the main char. I could give an entire list.

Just look at this good chart. www.boingboing.net/2010/10/19/the-japanese-rpg-for.html

DA3 needs the look it had in DAO. Dark and mature. There is absolutely no need to make it cartoonish or anime like DA2 or all the Jgames. It's an absolute horrible style.

I agree with your last sentence. But I dont think its true that jrpg havent evolved at all. In regards of plot and mechanichs, you have hidden gems as Dragon quarter (Breath of fire V) or Persona.

And classic ones as Dragon Quest didnt have cliches as the main female role being attracted to the protagonist. Take Dragon Quest 8 for example. Its not the most original plot, though.

I think jrpgs are at stale, but that doesnt mean they dont have good titles or meaningful tries to evolve. 

[Chromie]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

DA3 needs the look it had in DAO. Dark and mature. There is absolutely no need to make it cartoonish or anime like DA2 or all the Jgames. It's an absolute horrible style.

DA:O did not look dark or mature. Saying it's supposed to be dark heroic fantasy doesn't make it so. I was so dissapointed to find out how far from it Origins really was. Not to say it was a bad game but if DA3 was actual dark fantasy like a Fire and Ice series I bet a lot of people would love it.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I also fail to see how the Archdemon is any different from a standard JRPG end boss. The variations possible given DR/Romantic Entanglements/Loghain are intriguing, yes, but it's still "hey, a Big Bad, oh great hero of Ferelden, will you not slay it?"

In this way, I found DA2 different from most RPGs, JRPG or WRPG. It had an idea... no real big bad, more of a social change, political kind of thing, that I thought had potential, though it wasn't fully executed here.

I'm very interested in seeing a game that doesn't have a significant Big Bad, and is all about small bads, or small decisions that could be bad or good, or about cultural paradigm shifts. SMT: Nocturne is really the only game that I can think of that does anything like that and it's... well... profoundly weird and sort of inaccessible emotionally. And there's still a final boss.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 juin 2011 - 11:05 .

[Zanallen]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

Wrong. JRPGs didn't evolve for the last 15(?) years. There's still the same princess you take along the journey and in the end you're still to make clear the cliched uber-evil guy doesn't control, destroy, change, whatever the world. Oh, and I really do have to see at least _one_ JRPG in which the first female chara you meet is not attracted to the main char. I could give an entire list.

Just look at this good chart. www.boingboing.net/2010/10/19/the-japanese-rpg-for.html

DA3 needs the look it had in DAO. Dark and mature. There is absolutely no need to make it cartoonish or anime like DA2 or all the Jgames. It's an absolute horrible style.

Lol, you realise that those cliches fit the vast majority of RPGs, a good number of Bioware RPGs included? Who is the first female character you get in Origins? Oh yeah, the love interest Morrigan. What's the goal? Preventing the cliche uber-evil entity known as the Archdemon (Lol, Archdemon) from destroying Ferelden. Oh, and technically, Morrigan can be considered as a type of princess considering Flemeth's history.