351 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Bio-Age wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

yaw wrote...

The point is it looked stupid. And there was no need for it.

Fixed.

Fixed  

Fixed



Oh all right...... I just wanted to be a part of the club. Is that so wrong?

[Zanallen]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Fixed
Oh all right...... I just wanted to be a part of the club. Is that so wrong?

But you didn't fix anything. You should have been like "The point is that Bio-Age looks stupid. Fixed." or something.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Zanallen wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Fixed
Oh all right...... I just wanted to be a part of the club. Is that so wrong?

But you didn't fix anything. You should have been like "The point is that Zanallen looks stupid. Fixed." or something.

Fixed.



*runs away*

[Zanallen]

mrcrusty wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Fixed
Oh all right...... I just wanted to be a part of the club. Is that so wrong?

But you didn't fix anything. You should have been like "The point is that mrcrusty is a poopyface. Fixed." or something.

Fixed.



*runs away*

Fixed.

Modifié par Zanallen, 13 juin 2011 - 04:22 .

[TEWR]

Zanallen wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Fixed
Oh all right...... I just wanted to be a part of the club. Is that so wrong?

But you didn't fix anything. You should have been like "The point is that you two are confusing me now. Fixed." or something.

Fixed.



*runs away*

Fixed.

Fixed.

[TEWR]

LULZ. Massive LULZ

[Raizen10e]

i think i saw a lot more posts correcting her claim of DA:O being perfect then i saw people actually responding to the topic at hand.
i'd agree to both DA:O being perfect and that some of the over the top animations weren't needed in DA2. I remember playing the beginning of 2 and seeing the new templar armor and thinking "really? is ALL those belts and buckles really necessary?" (im getting kingdom hearts zipper flashbacks) what was wrong with the original armor?
I know with the updated battle system they wanted more action... but that third act fight.. that was a little too far.. i didnt have anywhere close to the same kinds of moves and i still won?

oh and PS: mages were millions of times better in origins... and being able to run away in combat to avoid a hit isnt nearly as awesome as casting 2 storms of the century back to back 2 rooms down and not even getting into combat to NEED to dodge an oncoming attack

[Guns]

Agreed. Keep the Naruto combat in Naruto. Dragon Age is suppose to be a realistic dark fantasy.

[Clover Rider]

Guns wrote...

Agreed. Keep the Naruto combat in Naruto. Dragon Age is suppose to be a realistic dark fantasy.

Naruto combat is more or less just magic at this point that makes no sense like Dragon Age.

Also Dragon Age is nothing like a "realistic dark fantasy".

[Theagg]

Guns wrote...

Agreed. Keep the Naruto combat in Naruto. Dragon Age is suppose to be a realistic dark fantasy.

I would actually point out here that the term "realisitc dark fantasty" is somewhat of an oxymoron.

[Funkjoker]

Zanallen wrote...

Lol, you realise that those cliches fit
the vast majority of RPGs, a good number of Bioware RPGs included? Who
is the first female character you get in Origins? Oh yeah, the love
interest Morrigan. What's the goal? Preventing the cliche uber-evil
entity known as the Archdemon (Lol, Archdemon) from destroying Ferelden.
Oh, and technically, Morrigan can be considered as a type of princess
considering Flemeth's history.

I know that many RPGs include such types of scenarios. However, WRPGs evolved while JRPGs still make the same.

The first female is Morrigan. For you she may be a princess, but the only
title I see is that of an apostate or witch of the wilde. Technically
you should hand her over to the Templers, which is possible when you
download a mod to properly restore some scenes in the Mage tower.
Second, you don't have to romance her. In a JRPG, she or Leliana would be your 100% relationship. You wouldn't even break up with anyone! And there's Zevran...That's far more than any JRPG has ever shown, isn't it?

You know, the ugly monsters we're to defeat in DAO also need some ugly
boss. However, in this world, every being is explained and not in a
cliched way. The Archdemon doesn't collect 8
crystals of light to make the ultimate weapon out of them. He's _one_ of
the remaining old gods, so there are more uber-evils.

Ryzaki wrote...

Screw princess you're running around with a prince. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] Oh wow! Genderbender! That's never been done before! -Oh wait...didn't that happen in DQ8? You had a prince and a princess! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie] 

Yes
all JRPGs are the same and WRPGs are all the pinncles of ingenuity.
Riiight. (towardsJean-Funk not the poster I'm quoting).

What "Riiiiggghttt"? Did I ever write anything about WRPGs being 100% different from JRPGs?

The
only statement I make is that WRPGs evolve and keep you interested in
playing them while JRPGs have the same stories we played 15 years ago.
Yes, there are also exceptions. I'm talking about the majority of games
coming from them. And every 2nd JRPG deals with some sort of princess.
And this princess is always some shy and boring
I'd-like-to-kick-out-of-my-party-girl. But I can't, 'cause they don't
let me.

You're reading something in my post I didn't write. Of course, this is the standard in this board.

The Baconer wrote...

Really. People still think DAO was dark.

At least far more darker than this cartoonish thing they call DA2. Well, it could also been all the brown tiles.

What do you consider dark when I was obviously so wrong?

Anathemic wrote...

That's the characteristics of a dark
fantasy, which the Dragon Age franchsie was advertised as, if you didn't
like it, then the dark fantasy is not for you. Sorry.

Correct.

Some Geth wrote...

Also Dragon Age is nothing like a "realistic dark fantasy".

It is not? The death-animations are fluid, eye-candy and are more or less possible to do yourself. In DA2 many things are highly exaggerated, but this was depicted in other threads.

What's realistic dark fantasy for you? DAO had a very good approach to it. DA2 broke it.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 13 juin 2011 - 10:21 .

[Theagg]

csfteeeer wrote...

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...
DA3 needs the look it had in DAO. Dark and mature.

i agree, i DESPISE the stupid and colorful art style of DA2....
well there are many things i despise about that game, but that's not the point.
even if you think the art style in DAO was a bit generic, at least it wasn't so colorful that i wanted to kill myself, it looked like it was drawn by a kid.
DA3 needs to look realistic, grittier and Darker, like DAO.(although obviously it needs to look better than DAO, that's a no brainer(my heart wants them to use the RED Engine, i'll cross my fingers in blind hope:crying:))

The medieval period, since that's where most players seem to think DA2 is set (it technically isn't set there though) was a very colourful period. Clothing for the well off was colorful and bold, banners and flags were bright, tents were bold and stripey. Colours like deep blues, golds and bright oranges were very popular. Often primary colours dominated too, so much so it could look like a...cartoon.

So in that respect it's realistic. (Dark and 'gritty' would be wholly unlike medieval times in that respect)

[Theagg]

yaw wrote...

Nepenthe87 wrote...

Jumping really high is easier explained then being comepletely intact after being eaten. Meredith was magially enhanced by the idol. People completely ignore the fact that magic exists in this world when arguing this jumping point. Maybe the idol gives her a perma haste buff and a bull's strength buff. Put them both together vetically and you have a big jump.

You can tip-toe around the issue and try to defend the physics for it all you like, but that's not the point.

The point is it looked stupid. And there was no need for it.

It would have been more impressive and better suited to the atmosphere of the game if she used the idol to cast her magic, which exerted much of her strength, and then she dragged the thing sweating and bleeding and panting up to the platform.

It is the point. It didn't look stupid to me. If a huge dragon can fly, and an Ogre can leap, I'm perfectly able to accept that a Lyrium infused, idol possessed woman can leap in that manner, even with armour on.

People being tossed around in the jaws of a dragon, like a seal inthe jaws of a killer whale and surviving with barely a scratch looks far more stupid than that minor act  (and yet I can go with that too)

[JoHnDoE14]

DA2 isn't so heavy in JRPG elements as some people think. It is true that some things (like the backflipps and all) are OVER exaggerated, which is really stupid and immersion breaking but its not that tragic.

[Funkjoker]

JoHnDoE14 wrote...

DA2 isn't so heavy in JRPG elements as some people think. It is true that some things (like the backflipps and all) are OVER exaggerated, which is really stupid and immersion breaking but its not that tragic.

Correct. We don't want DAseries to go down *this* road.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 13 juin 2011 - 01:08 .

[Monica83]

the difference is.. DAO had is own identity.. DA2 try to look like something different in a very desperate manner but the result is a lower dumbed down hybrid and a mediocre game... I don't want see the future DA sequel turn in this way.. DA2 was a fail.. As a Rpg and also AS action game.. The new design is too much cartoonish look what they did to elves.. The default hawke seems more a stylized cartoon than a real character...

Then i play TW2 and i say: wow... this is a strong identity

[daemon1129]

Monica83 wrote...

the difference is.. DAO had is own identity.. DA2 try to look like something different in a very desperate manner but the result is a lower dumbed down hybrid and a mediocre game... I don't want see the future DA sequel turn in this way.. DA2 was a fail.. As a Rpg and also AS action game.. The new design is too much cartoonish look what they did to elves.. The default hawke seems more a stylized cartoon than a real character...

Then i play TW2 and i say: wow... this is a strong identity

Exactly.  With such short development cycle and a risky overhaul design appoarch to the sequel, DA2 was indeed mediocre game at best.  You might say the writing is a lot stronger than a lot of games out there, but DA2 has the worst writing in all Bioware games.  Not because of the lack of talent from the writers, but again from the lack of time for polishment and possibly rushed to completion.

I would hate to see games gets "dumb down" 1 after another, but at the very least, make the game with effort and passion.  And most importantly, don't just release something that is rushed. 

[T764]

I don't agree with with the claim that DAO had it's own identity, it's identity was the same "realistic dark fantasy" world as many other creations that make the same claim.

The DAO world would fit in with the D&D, Witcher and Elder Scrolls worlds with a minimal of change.

It's D&D without the D&D name.

And to Jean-Funk Van Damme, the jrpg stories maintain the same core because they are a story with a game tacked on, they are not about choice. Comparing a story intensive and linear jrpg to Origins is akin to comparing Origins to Oblivion. Jrpg's are closer to books or films than games.
Also many of the story cliches you complain about are at the core of the world of fantasy storytelling, without them you have GTA, a collection of people being muppets.

Edit: For naughty foul language.

Modifié par T764, 13 juin 2011 - 03:13 .

[Funkjoker]

T764 wrote...

1)And to Jean-Funk Van Damme, the jrpg stories maintain the same core because they are a story with a game tacked on, they are not about choice. Comparing a story intensive and linear jrpg to Origins is akin to comparing Origins to Oblivion. Jrpg's are closer to books or films than games.

2)Also many of the story cliches you complain about are at the core of the world of fantasy storytelling, without them you have GTA, a collection of people being muppets.

1) Even if DAO was totally linear, it'd still be far better than any JRPG. Just compare the hairstyles!
JRPGs are nowhere closer to books or games than DAO. The last one I'd watch for sure; the first one - not with me! Why? Because I ask myself again and again: why not kill the evil idiot introduced in the first five minutes right away instead of dealing with his/her evilness for the next 90 minutes?

2) Yes, but the execution of the storylines, characters etc evolved in WRPGs, while they are still in the same stage in JRPGs as they were 15 years ago. Back to my previous posts. Excluding some exceptions.

[Bejos_]

JoHnDoE14 wrote...

DA2 isn't so heavy in JRPG elements as some people think. It is true that some things (like the backflipps and all) are OVER exaggerated, which is really stupid and immersion breaking but its not that tragic.

(The following are generalisations, of course. There are a few titles in each genre that manage to buck the norm but still stay faithful to the spirit of their niche.)

Good Cinematics + Choice & Consequence + Varied Environments + Good Aesthetics + Melodrama = WRPG.

Good Cinematics + Lack Of Choice & Consequence + Repetitive Environments + Good Aesthetics + Melodrama = JRPG.

Bad Cinematics + Lack Of Choice & Consequence + Repetitive Environments + Bad Aesthetics + "Realism" = FPS.

Bad Cinematics + Lack Of Choice & Consequence + Repetitive Environments + Bad Aesthetics + Melodrama = DA2.

Bioware were obviously going for a hybrid of a lot of different genres. Unfortunately, the DA2 team attempted to meld (for whatever unfathomable reason) the worst aspects of each genre. How it is that they expected this approach to work-- i.e. to produce a good game-- is beyond me.

It just doesn't work that way, guys ...

Modifié par Bejos_, 13 juin 2011 - 04:19 .

[Zanallen]

I fail to see how WRPGs are any more varied in environments than JRPGs. Yes, you do have games like Azure Dreams and the Persona series that mainly take place in a single town with a single dungeon (The Persona series is actually a great example of story evolution from the typical JRPG, by the way). But then you also have games with a wealth of varied environments and locations, much more than you have in the "perfect" DA:O.

[Bejos_]

Zanallen wrote...

I fail to see how WRPGs are any more varied in environments than JRPGs. Yes, you do have games like Azure Dreams and the Persona series that mainly take place in a single town with a single dungeon (The Persona series is actually a great example of story evolution from the typical JRPG, by the way). But then you also have games with a wealth of varied environments and locations, much more than you have in the "perfect" DA:O.

"(The following are generalisations, of course. There are a few titles in each genre that manage to buck the norm but still stay faithful to the spirit of their niche.)"

Most JRPGs that don't have the money behind them that FF does, make use of a lot of repetition in environments, e.g. Persona. This is not me disparaging JRPGs-- I like (well-made) JRPGs. I even managed to like Persona, despite its even-worse-than-DA2 reuse of environments.

Modifié par Bejos_, 13 juin 2011 - 03:51 .

[T764]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

1) Even if DAO was totally linear, it'd still be far better than any JRPG. Just compare the hairstyles!
JRPGs are nowhere closer to books or games than DAO. The last one I'd watch for sure; the first one - not with me! 

2)Because I ask myself again and again: why not kill the evil idiot introduced in the first five minutes right away instead of dealing with his/her evilness for the next 90 minutes?

3) Yes, but the execution of the storylines, characters etc evolved in WRPGs, while they are still in the same stage in JRPGs as they were 15 years ago. Back to my previous posts. Excluding some exceptions.

Sorry, re-numbered your points to make it easier to respond.
 
1) When i said books i meant a totally linear and unchangeable story not whether YOU would read or watch it.
Do you complain when a book, film or non-rpg game has the token love interest thrown in?

2) I can only guess as to what you mean by this. If you have to have a 90 minute running time you can't kill the villian early, the story has to last 90 minutes. Normally the villain is hidden, away or too strong to be killed immediately, the story is about the journey to defeat it. 

3)  What do you mean by the evolution of the execution? From your earlier posts you talk about non-cliched explanation's but an old god amounts to the same as a magical plague or a misguided man collecting magical trinkets, is Origins less cliched in having the Grey Wardens the only people capable of slaying the uber-evil. Wrpgs still have lost royalty, levered in romance and stupid explanations.

From the arguments you put foward you appear to hate jrpgs because they are jrpgs not because they are cliched or don't evolve.