69 réponses à ce sujet

[Martanek]

I wonder if the devs make ME3 levels more spacious and open or if we see the same cramped planets and places as in ME2. Does anybody have an idea what ME3's level design will look like? Does Bioware perhaps lean on ME's somewhat more open terrain or ME2's on-rail straightforward environments this time? I would certainly welcome stretched and larger environments because that obviously makes exploration more possible. I really wish ME3 would incline towards an RPG in this area. Anyway, has Casey Hudson made any statement on the subject yet?

[Martanek]

Nobody anything?

[Beerfish]

Sorry wide open spaces does not mean better rpg. There was nothing major wrong with the environs in ME1 or ME2. Someday someone will make a open game world ala the fall outs or morrowind etc in a space setting and I'm sure it will be fun to play but it will not be a better rpg as a result of being open.

[marshalleck]

If the E3 demos are any guide for what to expect, it will be linear pathways cleverly integrated into large, yet inaccessible spaces.

Modifié par marshalleck, 11 juin 2011 - 10:39 .

[Dannyboy9876]

Open Space =/= RPG Feature

[onelifecrisis]

Martanek wrote...

I wonder if the devs make ME3 levels more spacious and open or if we see the same cramped planets and places as in ME2. Does anybody have an idea what ME3's level design will look like? Does Bioware perhaps lean on ME's somewhat more open terrain or ME2's on-rail straightforward environments this time? I would certainly welcome stretched and larger environments because that obviously makes exploration more possible. I really wish ME3 would incline towards an RPG in this area. Anyway, has Casey Hudson made any statement on the subject yet?

Firstly, the bold bit almost amounts to flamebaiting. The last thing anyone needs is yet another thread debating what does and does not constitute an RPG.

Secondly, if you just go and watch the E3 demos you'll find the answer to your question. ME3 will play like ME2 did.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 11 juin 2011 - 10:41 .

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

While I do agree that ME2 was lacking because of all the corridor shooting and I hope they open up ME3. I fail to see how sandbox/open world gaming is limited only to RPGs.

[RoninOmega]

Its not limited to rpg, but mass effect in my opinion would be much better if the spaces were less linear. The op did not ask for your opinion on what is an rpg, and to be quite honest, a linear-designed game is less oriented to rpg than an open-designed level is, this is fact, you just have more stuff to roleplay in, not like something like where you fell like you are going through a set hallway where you most likely would feel like your scripted to something. Just imagine if for example, the citadel was not as open and the only way to exit is going through another end?  It doesnt define an rpg directly, but it does certainly add to it more than linear-designed levels.

Modifié par RoninOmega, 11 juin 2011 - 11:15 .

[eye basher]

That's about right ME3 is going to be like nascar always going straight insted of going left.

[wizardryforever]

"Corridor shooting" is and always has been a part of Mass Effect, and I see no reason why that should change now.  If you're going to tell a mostly linear story, it stands to reason that the areas will be mostly linear as well.  I would be fine with some branching paths such as Peak 15 or Thane's recruitment mission, but I don't think "wide open" lends itself well to the ME story-telling dynamic.

[Martanek]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

While I do agree that ME2 was lacking because of all the corridor shooting and I hope they open up ME3. I fail to see how sandbox/open world gaming is limited only to RPGs.

I do not mean open or sandbox environments like those in Oblivion or other RPG's etc., but areas that have multiple paths to their goals and emphasize an exploration element. A good example of this approach, though not being an RPG, is Crysis 2 where ME3 should draw some inspiration IMHO. I want levels where a map would be made a good use of.
In my view, corridor shooting refers to "shooting gallery" gameplay that we see in COD and its clones, and I am not sure if we want to see the same thing in an RPG/shooter hybrid like the ME series.

[slimgrin]

Ahh yes. This topic, the one where everyone claims open spaces ruin story. Whatever.

I hear you op, but I doubt it will happen. They don't need to do corridors; they probably will, and we'll get zilch for exploration in yet another Bioware title. They just haven't done good level design since ME1.

Modifié par slimgrin, 11 juin 2011 - 11:37 .

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

Level design appears to be more or less the same as ME2.

However, there are now things like ladders etc. that can help with this. ME1 also had linear levels but it was offset by other features that helped make it feel not so linear.

I doubt we'll see multiple paths to the same goal but who knows.

[mattahraw]

the whole 'call of duty' style corridor seems here to stay. They're going to use lots of re-directs to make it less predictable, but it's still a corridor, just one with some occasional scripted surprises now.

It'd be nice to see more hub world style missions, i really enjoyed the citadel story section of ME1 and there was nothing like that in ME2.

[Sgt Stryker]

marshalleck wrote...

If the E3 demos are any guide for what to expect, it will be linear pathways cleverly integrated into large, yet inaccessible spaces.

So, just like the main plot worlds in ME1? I'm good with that.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

RoninOmega wrote...

Its not limited to rpg, but mass effect in my opinion would be much better if the spaces were less linear. The op did not ask for your opinion on what is an rpg, and to be quite honest, a linear-designed game is less oriented to rpg than an open-designed level is, this is fact, you just have more stuff to roleplay in, not like something like where you fell like you are going through a set hallway where you most likely would feel like your scripted to something. Just imagine if for example, the citadel was not as open and the only way to exit is going through another end?  It doesnt define an rpg directly, but it does certainly add to it more than linear-designed levels.

I assume you were referring to me. I don't know what you issue with my post is specifically. The OP did in fact reference RPGs and open world gameplay in this passage:
"I really wish ME3 would incline towards an RPG in this area."
That's what I took issue with.

[mattahraw]

SKiLLYWiLLY2 wrote...

Level design appears to be more or less the same as ME2.

However, there are now things like ladders etc. that can help with this. ME1 also had linear levels but it was offset by other features that helped make it feel not so linear.

I doubt we'll see multiple paths to the same goal but who knows.

Virmire in ME1 was semi-linear. On the approach section outisde the base there were lots of different platforms you could go to from different directions, and you could enter the base from the top entrance or the bottom one. I think it was actually more interesting to play than alot of the ME2 levels

[slimgrin]

They need to take a look at FarCry. That game has brilliant level design; I can't praise it enough. It offers multiple approaches with nearly every conflict. You never feel confined, the area never seems contrived. And it's a shooter.
I mean, isn't an RPG supposed to offer multiple solutions?

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 juin 2011 - 12:10 .

[mattahraw]

slimgrin wrote...

They need to take a look at FarCry. That game has brilliant level design; I can't praise it enough. It offers multiple approaches with nearly every conflict. You never feel confined, the area never seems contrived. And it's a shooter.
I mean, isn't an RPG supposed to offer multiple solutions?

Agreed. No more railroading us...... please.

[Commander Shep4rd]

Hope not these were just the first levels hey made if we can make the Devs actually pay atention to this topic they mayatleast give us multiple paths in their levels i don´t want railshooting as bad as ME2

[Whole Particle]

Thought some of the worlds were supposed to be even bigger than ME1 levels (to fight the reapers)?

Like what's said in point #3 here:
http://kotaku.com/58...ht-want-to-hear

[marshalleck]

The levels themselves may be physically ginormous, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to traverse the whole thing. Look at the demo with Shepard and Anderson in Vancouver. It's huge, with all the Reapers landing and walking around, but the area Shepard can actually move around in is really no larger than anything in ME2.

If they can make this work such that my attention is constantly drawn away by the gigantic set pieces, great! I don't know that it will happen, though.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 juin 2011 - 12:35 .

[Commander Shep4rd]

3. Those worlds are going to be big.
"Reapers are big. In order to have accommodate fights with them, or even having them nearby means designing levels much larger than the usual spaceship corridors that make up a large portion of Mass Effect's locales. "Many of levels will include more open spaces."BioWare plans to make the shift in a way a dramatic way, claiming that some levels that are not only larger than anything ever seen in a Mass Effect game, but larger than any game built with the Unreal Engine.
Think of it this way. At least one level has to be big enough for Shepard to fight using a 50-foot tall Cerberus mech"


They said "many" which possibly menas that most levels will have more open spaces.

Modifié par Commander Shep4rd, 12 juin 2011 - 12:41 .

[Walker White]

Therum was one long corridor with a few large arenas along the corridor.

Feros was one long corridor with a few short, minor branches.

Noveria was a hub-and-spoke area, but linear at almost every spoke.

If you look at the level design for the DLCs (Overlord, Shadow Broker, Arrival) it is as good or better than ME1.

[FluffyScarf]

Feros. Linear. Therum. Linear. UNC caves, bunkers and bases. Linear. Noveria. Linear. Ilos. Linear. Remind me what the levels were like for those abandoned ships? Oh that's right. Lots and lots of boxes stacked to the ceiling in a conveniently maze-shaped formation. How clever. The only problem with ME2's level design was the overuse of chest high boxes. Shadowbroker fixed this with far more 'natural' looking levels.

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 12 juin 2011 - 12:42 .