69 réponses à ce sujet

[Chromie]

Overlord especially. Here's to hoping uncharted worlds in ME3 are like Project Overlord.

[Bluko]

Beerfish wrote...

Sorry wide open spaces does not mean better rpg. There was nothing major wrong with the environs in ME1 or ME2. Someday someone will make a open game world ala the fall outs or morrowind etc in a space setting and I'm sure it will be fun to play but it will not be a better rpg as a result of being open.

I still  don't see why a few free-roam side missions would be bad. What's this got to do with it being an RPG anyways? I just want ME3 to be a better game.

Not everyone enjoys free roaming and I certainly don't expect the plot missions to be so. But I don't see why it would be the end-of-the-world if a few side missions gave us nice wide open spaces to explore on foot or otherwise. Would it really be so terrible to give players the option to jump off the railroad tracks for a bit?

Modifié par Bluko, 12 juin 2011 - 12:42 .

[slimgrin]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Feros. Linear. Therum. Linear. UNC caves, bunkers and bases. Linear. Noveria. Linear. Ilos. Linear. Remind me what the levels were like for those abandoned ships? Oh that's right. Lots and lots of boxes stacked to the ceiling in a conveniently maze-shaped formation. How clever. The only problem with ME2's level design was the overuse of chest high boxes. Shadowbroker fixed this with far more 'natural' looking levels.

The problem with ME2 was the areas seemed artificial, like blatant video game levels, not living, organic spaces. The reaper ship was a f*ckin joke; you are supposed to be in this massive structure and it's like a damn hallway, complete with weapon exchange bunkers...lol. Don't they care about immersion at all?

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 juin 2011 - 01:36 .

[FluffyScarf]

No more immersion breaking than the Geth conveniently using the same bunker prefab that mercs were using. And that ship filled with Husks who were just coincidentally hiding behind boxes that you passed. Funnily enough, those levels didn't feel like organic spaces. Who would stack containers in such a fashion in the first place? Oh that's right, blatant video game levels.

And that Reaper had Cerebrus employees working there for god knows how long. Not too far fetched to think they brought in resources.

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 12 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[Martanek]

RoninOmega wrote...

Its not limited to rpg, but mass effect in my opinion would be much better if the spaces were less linear. The op did not ask for your opinion on what is an rpg, and to be quite honest, a linear-designed game is less oriented to rpg than an open-designed level is, this is fact, you just have more stuff to roleplay in, not like something like where you fell like you are going through a set hallway where you most likely would feel like your scripted to something. Just imagine if for example, the citadel was not as open and the only way to exit is going through another end?  It doesnt define an rpg directly, but it does certainly add to it more than linear-designed levels.

That's exactly what I meant by my post, you paraphrased it quite nicely. Glad to see someone who feels it the same way.

[bleetman]

"A vast expanse of desert stretches before you, with no markers or any indications of life. It would be a deathtrap for anyone wandering aimlessly."

I'd love some more open space in general, yes. Aside from anything else, it might make my Infiltrator sniper rifle feel like an actual sniper rifle. But narrow corridors masquerading as wide open spaces seems to just be something Bioware does. I don't know how likely that is to change at this point.

[Naughty Bear]

More hub worlds like Omega and the Citadel please

[Martanek]

slimgrin wrote...

Ahh yes. This topic, the one where everyone claims open spaces ruin story. Whatever.

I hear you op, but I doubt it will happen. They don't need to do corridors; they probably will, and we'll get zilch for exploration in yet another Bioware title. They just haven't done good level design since ME1.

Well, last I read in another section of the forums, the devs were thinking of implementing a Mako-like exploration into ME3. That leads me to the conclusion that environments should not be as cramped as they were in ME2 where exploration was made useless due to the corridor level design. Apart from that, levels in ME3 are going to be "multi-layered" so this gives me a certain hope of better exploration possibilities.
However, if Bioware decide to eventually leave out vehicle-based planet exploration and stick to the boring planet mining, ME3 will most probably follow its older sibling in the same level design footsteps.

[FluffyScarf]

[Martanek]

slimgrin wrote...

Ahh yes. This topic, the one where everyone claims open spaces ruin story. Whatever.

I do not believe a good story can be ruined by larger environments, we are not talking about sand-box RPG's in this case. The point is that bigger areas obviously allow for better exploration, which is an important part of gameplay in such a kind of games. If I wanted corridor shooting I could play COD or the likes, which I do not play anyway.

[Martanek]

Virmire in ME1 was semi-linear. On the approach section outisde the base there were lots of different platforms you could go to from different directions, and you could enter the base from the top entrance or the bottom one. I think it was actually more interesting to play than alot of the ME2 levels

I agree wholeheartedly. Why have a map at all when there are no areas to get lost in or barely any areas with alternate paths?

[FluffyScarf]

Virmire and the Citadel were the only semi-linear levels. So that's 2 maps out of a hundred. Not too bad.

[Gatt9]

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

3. Those worlds are going to be big.
"Reapers are big. In order to have accommodate fights with them, or even having them nearby means designing levels much larger than the usual spaceship corridors that make up a large portion of Mass Effect's locales. "Many of levels will include more open spaces."BioWare plans to make the shift in a way a dramatic way, claiming that some levels that are not only larger than anything ever seen in a Mass Effect game, but larger than any game built with the Unreal Engine.
Think of it this way. At least one level has to be big enough for Shepard to fight using a 50-foot tall Cerberus mech"


They said "many" which possibly menas that most levels will have more open spaces.

Yeah,  but the problem is,  that doesn't necessarily mean it's either non-linear or less confined.

Think of ME2's thresher maw fight,  or end battle,  the areas were "Big" in that they looked large.  But in truth,  you had a tiny amount of space to move in,  and one way in and one way out,  like any other corridor.

Norman's assertion that the levels are big doesn't preclude them being cramped corridors unfortunately,  TBH,  I'd be very surprised if Bioware didn't turn out another ultra-linear corridor TPS.

[Ricinator]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Feros. Linear. Therum. Linear. UNC caves, bunkers and bases. Linear. Noveria. Linear. Ilos. Linear. Remind me what the levels were like for those abandoned ships? Oh that's right. Lots and lots of boxes stacked to the ceiling in a conveniently maze-shaped formation. How clever. The only problem with ME2's level design was the overuse of chest high boxes. Shadowbroker fixed this with far more 'natural' looking levels.

at least ME1 felt open

[Whatever42]

Actually, the demos show a design more in-line with what we saw in the highly praised LotSB and Overlord - more wide vistas that gave a less closed-in feel. (BTW, there was action on rails in LotSB too)

I agree many of the levels in ME2 felt a little closed-in. In ME1 you had big back-drops - like the sky highways and the huge Citadel. Sure, other than the cookie-cutter action on the planet exploration, it was also very linear and filled with corridors but it *felt* more open. I think we'll see more of that design in ME3, like we did in the DLC.

[AlanC9]

Bluko wrote...

I still  don't see why a few free-roam side missions would be bad. What's this got to do with it being an RPG anyways? I just want ME3 to be a better game.

Not everyone enjoys free roaming and I certainly don't expect the plot missions to be so. But I don't see why it would be the end-of-the-world if a few side missions gave us nice wide open spaces to explore on foot or otherwise. Would it really be so terrible to give players the option to jump off the railroad tracks for a bit?

The fact that a feature is not "so terrible" isn't a good reason to include that feature.

[Skilled Seeker]

They said that ME3 will feature bigger levels. Whether this is true remains to be seen. The ME3 demo had corridors even narrower than ME2!

[Parah_Salin]

I just don't see whats wrong with multiple pathways.

You can still design choke-points in the level for specific fights and events to happen, but just have more content that you might not get to experience all of in one throughway. That would be fine, it would leave more stuff to be rediscovered on a second play through.

Another advantage is if you had places to cross over and enemies spawned further away there would be space for reinforcements to spawn out of. You should focus more on pushing forward and reaching your objective than on strait up killing every single enemy foot soldier in front of you. Especially when fighting the reapers. I don't think we should feel like the onslaught will end one bit.

[78stonewobble]

Hmm my wish for this dilemma.

Somewhat larger cities/spacestations that you can explore/adventure in. Some missions take place there (but please no scan keepers missions right?).

Add other content to mission specific locations (players have reason to revisit them) so they add more "area" to the game.

Mission specific areas should have multiple choices in ways to attack/sneak/move/whatever. Not just corridor A or B though. Something like frontdoor, backdoor or through the skylight.


@Parah_Salin: I have an intense dislike for endlessly spawning enemies. Unless it's a last stand scenario.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 12 juin 2011 - 06:24 .

[SennenScale]

I hope not. ME2 made me feel a tad claustrophobic.

[Parah_Salin]

78stonewobble wrote...


@Parah_Salin: I have an intense dislike for endlessly spawning enemies. Unless it's a last stand scenario.

Not saying endlessly spawning, all the time, I'm just saying a situations where you will probably get to where you need to finish an objective or get to where you need to while still under fire (and not with smaller, but with more enemies across a larger map) as aposed to "enter room, kill everyone, door on other side opens/is clear."

[Mister Mida]

It's been said before by others, but I hope ME3's level design is more natural like in ME (1). ME2's design was too gamey and too obvious.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

I certainly hope so! If I want to play a sandboxy game like Fallout 3, I'll buy Fallout 3.

Don't mess with my railroad shooter/rpg please.

[SalsaDMA]

eye basher wrote...

That's about right ME3 is going to be like nascar always going straight insted of going left.

that reminded me of from around 1 minute in the video

[Xeyska]

I think the areas will look big, but still have the linear pathway.