138 réponses à ce sujet

[Whatever42]

I agree that Garrus != Han Solo. Garrus is not easy-going, devil-may-care rogue. He is way too intense, justice crazy batman for sure. A Han Solo archtype would be awesome. I'm not gay but I would definitely swoon for that.

[clerkenwell]

lazuli wrote...

As a Jacob fan, I find your theory interesting. I subscribe to the notion that at least part of the other male squadmates' popularity stems from their alien status for a fair amount of players.

I wonder how a picaresque character would work in a video game, though. In literature and film it's simple enough, but in an interactive work of fiction it might not be as easy to make him charming and roguish without infringing on the player's own pride in their hero. Didn't many people find Haer'Dalis annoying or even emasculating when he put the moves on Aerie?

I think the alien factor is definitely relevant, especially for someone like Thane who wouldn't really work as a human character. Garrus, on the other hand, is not especially Turian, if that makes any sense. I think you could turn Garrus into a human, and he'd have a similar number of fans. Or maybe not, and everyone would label him a "whiner."

Personally, I wouldn't be too concerned about a picaresque type hedging in on the player's turf. Short of writing him so that he swoops in and steals Sheps love interest, I think it'd actually be quite difficult to have another character eclipse Shepard. And I can't speak to the majority opinion on Haer'Dalis, but I always found him to be thoroughly entertaining.

How do you know James Vega will not have a Han Solo personality?

Maybe he will! All I said was that I'm betting on Bioware's track record, and that I EXPECT he'll be the least popular squadmember in ME3. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

[Trakarg]

Oh my god. Give us a gay (or bi) mass effect version of alistair and I will be a happy man.

[Ghrelt]

I like the idea of having a more Jayne-esque kind of sidekick. Basically Zaeed with a sense of humor. Great in a fight, but never sure when, or whether he's gonna shoot you in the back.

[clerkenwell]

Nimander wrote...

The idea that /Kaidan/ was whiney boggles. He only tells you about his past when you ask, never brings it up really, doesn't complain about it. When he does tell you, he ends it with something like "Whelp, that's the past, and I'm over it. How're you sir?' He is remarkably stable, not whiney. Carth's 'issues' came up all the time, Kaidan's didn't.

Same with Jacob, he didn't really have tons of issues. It's too bad his romance subplot sucked the big one.

I couldn't agree more. I think people are just transferring Carth's issues on to Kaidan, or something.

[Nashiktal]

Thats what I think the problems were with Kaiden and Jacob, well not problem but still. They were too stable.

Jacob just doesnt... Well he doesn't do much. He is nice, but he doesn't really react. His loyalty missions doesn't have a point, in fact nothing changes about him after you do it. (Maybe its different if you romance him? never did.)

If he is in ME3 in any large capacity, I hope he gets some character development. I get the sense that he has the potential to be interesting, but I just constantly forget about him.

[Whatever42]

Trakarg wrote...

Oh my god. Give us a gay (or bi) mass effect version of alistair and I will be a happy man.

Gays like weak, whiney characters?

Sorry, I didn't really mind Alistair and I did like his sense of humour but his whining did start to bother me after a while.

[Trakarg]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Trakarg wrote...

Oh my god. Give us a gay (or bi) mass effect version of alistair and I will be a happy man.

Gays like weak, whiney characters?

Sorry, I didn't really mind Alistair and I did like his sense of humour but his whining did start to bother me after a while.

It depends on what kind of warden you played.  If you're a "good guy" so to speak, Alistair isn't too whiny at all.  At least once he gets past what happened at Ostagar.

Also.  "Swooping is bad..."

Modifié par Trakarg, 12 juin 2011 - 07:02 .

[Shishmish]

clerkenwell wrote...
I couldn't agree more. I think people are just transferring Carth's issues on to Kaidan, or something.

Probably because its the same voice actor. But yes, very different characters, though not to my liking.

[Whatever42]

Nashiktal wrote...

Thats what I think the problems were with Kaiden and Jacob, well not problem but still. They were too stable.

Jacob just doesnt... Well he doesn't do much. He is nice, but he doesn't really react. His loyalty missions doesn't have a point, in fact nothing changes about him after you do it. (Maybe its different if you romance him? never did.)

If he is in ME3 in any large capacity, I hope he gets some character development. I get the sense that he has the potential to be interesting, but I just constantly forget about him.

I think Jacob was ruined by his loyalty mission, I agree. If he had some sort of dark past (a betrayal like Garrus, for example) then he would be far more interesting. But a daddy issue that really has nothing to do with him? I did like his attitude at the end of it, though.

[goofyomnivore]

I like Kaidan and Jacob.. but I find them somewhat boring.. in a galaxy where we meet a Krogan Battlemaster, the perfect assassin, a young brilliant Asari mind, daughter of a Quarian Admiral, and so on..

The other human characters (Ashley, Jack, Miranda, and Zaeed) offer possible moral/ideal clashes and are somewhat special like the above.

Kaidan and Jacob? Not so much.. they have very minor issues.. and have come to terms with it nor are they interested in Shepard's Psych 101.

I like them as characters.. but I find them normal and unspectacular when compared to the other characters. Not their fault.

Modifié par strive, 12 juin 2011 - 07:11 .

[SilentK]

SilentNukee wrote...

Yeah, I heavily disliked the male human LI options in the game. Both Jacob and Kaidan were so dull, imo, and I bet Vega won't be any different 'cuz he's just another alliance marine. Oh well, aliens it is.

Well, I guess that this is one of the reasons for why there are different kinds of LI:s. I love Kaidan and really like Jacob. However I cannot really be anything more than good friends with Thane and Garrus. Garrus is best bud. Good thing that they have something for all of us     =)

[SteelRaptor]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Bring back Minsc.

"Biotics are impressive, but now Minsc leads. Guns for everyone!"

Bog, I agree wholeheartedly.

[Mudzr]

You can already have Han Solo in your party, well in KOTOR 2 anyway. His name is Atton Rand. He's ok.
The problem with human party members is that they have to have a lot going for them to stand out amougnst the alien party members. But it appears that James is the new male lead anyways so oh well.
Maybe Bioware should just focus on the new alien sqauddies, like a bstarian, female turian or raloi

[Jonathan Shepard]

As pretty and fun to talk with as Ashley is, even as a guy Shepard, I save Kaidan. Why? Not really sure... maybe it's because he /was/ part of my crew since the very beginning. But I found Kaidan the more interesting character out of the two ME1 humans. Jacob starts out being pretty interesting, but as soon as he starts talking about his father on his loyalty mission, for some reason, he becomes less of a good character. I don't know if it was the dialogue, or the hard-to-follow concept of that mission, what with the vagueness of it all.
From the look of Vega's supposed appearance though, I have doubts about him being interesting. He looks like he was pulled right out of GoW. And he's a newbie.

Wonderful.
/sarcasm

[mopotter]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Personally, I think we have enough 'Han Solo' types. And I agree the 'lead human males' have been somewhat lacking in personality. I'd like someone like Carver; belligerent and hard to please (a little like Jack, but not so crazy), a guy with something to prove who is constantly trying to one-up Shepard, maybe with some connection to Shepard's backstory...

But I'm probably the only one. Nobody loves Carver.

 

Carver is one of my favorite characters.  He's always there for my Mage even if they have family disagreements. Someone like this would be fine with me.  I do like the idea of having him connected to earth born Shepard.  

[kyg_20X6]

Carth was a Han rip-off and Carth sucked. And I liked the Kaiden over Ashley, at least he wasn't xenophobic and cross-eyed.

[Xewaka]

Nashiktal wrote...
Thats what I think the problems were with Kaiden and Jacob, well not problem but still. They were too stable.

That's the point of the character. They are an anchor for the crew. In the ragtag bunch of misfits Shepard assembles, they are the stable piece that holds everything together. They're the crewmember Shepard goes to when Shepard needs someone to entrust his own doubts.
Too bad that angle was never properly explored.

Nashiktal wrote...
Jacob just doesnt... Well he doesn't do much. He is nice, but he doesn't really react. His loyalty missions doesn't have a point, in fact nothing changes about him after you do it. (Maybe its different if you romance him? never did.)

It doesn't change him because he already had dealt with it before the mission. He does it more to satisfy his own curiosity than to come to terms with the fact.

Nashiktal wrote...
If he is in ME3 in any large capacity, I hope he gets some character development. I get the sense that he has the potential to be interesting, but I just constantly forget about him.

His character development happened in his backstory. To suddenly have his nature as the stable centre destroyed would harm the character. His development shouldn't alter his personality, but his personal situation (i.e. go back to the Alliance Army as an Officer, living on the run from Cerberus, etc).

Modifié par Xewaka, 12 juin 2011 - 01:05 .

[mopotter]

Lizardviking wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Carver was actally pretty good. I liked that he always clashed with Hawke. It made for a nice change of pace.

Me too, I thought it was way more interesting to have a character that wasn't constantly fawning over the PC. It was refreshing to hear something other than the usual two responses, "I totally agree!" or "I disagree, but you know best so I trust you!"

True. But as soon as a character dares to speak against the player most will instantly hate him or her "points at VS, Liara pre-LOTSB and Carver". Guess most can't stand having their ego get hurt.

This I think is a big part of the problem.  Seems like some players want everyone to follow Shepard either blindly or in wonder of Sheaprds knowledge and skill.  Wow Shepard I never thought of it that way.    I think that's part of why Horizon VS gets so much hate.  They wanted them to say  - OH Shepard your working with the terrorist orginazation that tried to kill us more than once, but I trust everything you do so it's ok".  :innocent:  Of course that's only a part of the problem with Horizon, including how you could reply, but back on track..  

I think Zaeed might have been that guy who would disagree with Shepard but the only time we could talk to him was on his personal mission.  If he's back in ME3 we might get something more from him.

The other thing, at least with most of the LI including Kaidan and Jack, is if you don't romance them you don't get a large portion of  their backstory which does make them a more interesting character.  DA:O did this pretty well.  Even if you didn't romance Alistair, he still had enough conversation that he was interesting.

[DrXenu]

I actually really like Kaidan, in fact he was like my sidekick practically. I liked him being the voice of reason against the voice of passion from Ashley, Logos vs. Pathos thing kinda. Each time my squad was Liara and Kaidan, and the squad is getting together again in ME3!!!!

[Xewaka]

mopotter wrote...
This I think is a big part of the problem.  Seems like some players want everyone to follow Shepard either blindly or in wonder of Sheaprds knowledge and skill.  Wow Shepard I never thought of it that way.    I think that's part of why Horizon VS gets so much hate.  They wanted them to say  - OH Shepard your working with the terrorist orginazation that tried to kill us more than once, but I trust everything you do so it's ok".  :innocent:  Of course that's only a part of the problem with Horizon, including how you could reply, but back on track..  
I think Zaeed might have been that guy who would disagree with Shepard but the only time we could talk to him was on his personal mission.  If he's back in ME3 we might get something more from him.
The other thing, at least with most of the LI including Kaidan and Jack, is if you don't romance them you don't get a large portion of  their backstory which does make them a more interesting character.  DA:O did this pretty well.  Even if you didn't romance Alistair, he still had enough conversation that he was interesting.

That's not even the main problem with Horizon. The problem with Horizon is that it won't let you dodge the issue, as you won't know which of the choices in the misleading, lying, cheating implement that is the paraphrases will bring up the Cerberus issue.

[mopotter]

Rake21 wrote...

My one problem with Kaiden was that he sounded far too much like someone I truly hated. Someone truly awful. Someone who made me almost despise the first 4 hours of one of my favorite games ever. (Hint: I ****ing hate Carth Onasi)

And when I heard Kaidan, I thought OMG it's my fly boy, my favorite fllirt and make me laugh romance character.  I imediately knew I was going to like Kaidan.  <3   Thus the power of the voice actors.

[elarem]

To be honest I like Zaeed, and Kasumi, more than the official ME2 candidates for 'henchmen (or women)' - perhaps it's because they are not LIs.

Garrus and Wrex are comrades-in-arms, best buddies or however you want to describe them. It is hard to deliver the same experience with a human just because they are human - unless you have someone who competes with the Shepard. A Mal, Jayne or Han Solo would be too much to handle because in the ME universe aliens are cooler.

However, if you imagine the aliens as humans they become instantly less exciting, or in Liara's case change to creepy can't-let-you-go girl - even if you weren't friends in ME1!

Let's hope they improve all the human characters in ME3 - but I really don't hold out much hope for James Vega, or a new female human if there is one, unless they have 'something' that the other humans don't have!

[mopotter]

Akizora wrote...

Carth Onasi and Kaiden were both whiners (ironic) and Jacob was just boring, hopefully they can create a human character for once that isn't a total lamer. They do just fine with Mordin, Thane, Garrus, Grunt, Wrex and Legion (arguably presented as a male).

Akizora, this is not addressed at you, it just reminded me - Whiners.  I really hate that word.  Unless they are talking about the pitch of their voice, there are so many good words out there and so many people use this one.  

 - accuse, ascribe, attack, beef, bellyache, bemoan, bewail, *****, carp, cavil, charge, contravene, criticize, defy, demur, denounce, deplore, deprecate, differ, disagree, disapprove, dissent, expostulate, find fault, fret, fuss, gainsay, grieve, gripe, groan, grouse, growl, grumble, impute, indict, kick up a fuss, lament, lay, look askance, make a fuss, moan, nag, object, oppose, protest, refute, remonstrate, repine, reproach,  

Back on track, I do think a lot has to do with the characters voice and how we react to it.  

[mopotter]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I'm going to agree with Garrus being Batman. Also, my gigantic crush on Han Solo dictates that I agree with the OP about the male lead. I would dump Kaidan AND Thane for a Han Solo-like male lead in a heartbeat (sorry, Kaidan & Thane).

I would definitely start a few new games if I could romance a Han Solo like character.  For this, I'd probably skip 1 and 2 and go directly to ME3 and take whatever backstory they give me.  :happy: