138 réponses à ce sujet

[Skilled Seeker]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Nope, just because he happens to be the LI, doesn't make him the lead male. As you said Sagacious Zu is far more intertwined with the plot and he's the 2nd companion you meet. Sky is a side character.

I wouldn't consider Zu to be one either though, considering what happens with him.

If anything I'd say Jade Empire didn't really have a 'lead male'. Silk Fox was more of a 'lead' than either of the boys.

Lead males can't die heroically? If you had to pick a lead male, Zu makes much more sense than Sky or any other character. So he's the lead male. He's certainly more of a lead male than Kaiden who contributes absolutely nothing to the plot, unlike Carth or Alistair.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

I thought Kaidan was loved?

[Xewaka]

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...
I thought Kaidan was loved?

Unless you played KotOR first, in which case, the fact he shares a voice with Carth causes certain amount of bias against him.
Also, it's not the fact that he's loved or not. It's the fact that he's sort of irrelevant for the main plot.

Modifié par Xewaka, 13 juin 2011 - 10:01 .

[Juha81FIN]

There are few tiny little problems with Han Solo henchman, first of all he comes with henchman that goes *groaar* almost all the time. And secondly I would not be able pick Miranda/ Ashley combination for my squad as I believe I would use Han Solo almost all the time (as I have done with Miri ).

[Collider]

It's the fact that he's sort of irrelevant for the main plot.

Yes. Kaidan added nothing.
As another person brought up, Alistair & Varric are examples of how to do the male lead well in terms of being well liked by both male and female players. Interaction with them was worthwhile and they had a purpose in the plot.

[Xewaka]

Juha81FIN wrote...
There are few tiny little problems with Han Solo henchman, first of all he comes with henchman that goes *groaar* almost all the time.

Now now, Aveline didn't go groar all the time, despite Varric being the handsome and roguishly charming fella he was.

[Nivilant]

Xewaka wrote...

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...
I thought Kaidan was loved?

Unless you played KotOR first, in which case, the fact he shares a voice with Carth causes certain amount of bias against him.
Also, it's not the fact that he's loved or not. It's the fact that he's sort of irrelevant for the main plot.

Actually, knowing him as Carth gave him points in my eyes. I can understand why people wouldn't like Carth, but he wasn't the one-dimensional whining man people seem to regard him as. In fact, he's one of the only Bioware characters that has made me laugh out loud. The others being Mordin, Garrus, Wrex, Varric and Isabela.

He actually flirts with you naturally, not just a leery look and some well-placed admiration. Yes, he does tend to go on about his past a bit but come on! A dead family is not an easy issue to cope with! In that, Carth is one of the more human (no pun intended) characters. He does let things affect him, not powering through them like Shepard (Virmire excluded). It's the same reason I liked the Exile in KotOR 2 more than Revan in 1. Or one of the few things I liked about Hawke.

We have enough badasses, now we need some softer characters.

[Icinix]

+1 to Millennium Falcon and Han Solo in game / cameo -


Hell - screw the Normandy - I want a re purposed SSD!

[Collider]

Yes, he does tend to go on about his past a bit

A bit?

[Khayness]

There are more than enough Han Solo expys out there.

[Nivilant]

Collider wrote...

Yes, he does tend to go on about his past a bit

A bit?

Yeah, most of the rest is present-tense about Saul and the PC's identity.

But he made fun of Bastila losing her lightsaber so it's all good, and respect to a man who actually dares to rock an orange jacket like that.

Modifié par Nivilant, 13 juin 2011 - 03:32 .

[Crimson_Rose07]

@Collider about and how to make (Kaidan) better lead male role...

I completely agree w/ everything you wrote. I would also add taking out the whining factor in a lot of lead male henchmen. I didn't see it too much w/ Kaidan, but definitely with other lead roles like Carth and Alistair. I LOVE all these characters but having them w/hold some of their emotional baggage, at least until a pivitol moment arose or major trust was gained would be nice. And when it does come forward, not having a complete meltdown it also good. Many people don't like to hear complaint after complaint, even if the person is being honest...you want to say "Sometimes things don't go well and life (perhaps at the moment) stinks. So suck it up and move forward. Whining about it won't change things...just annoy your companions." 

Garrus and Zevran are examples of characters that have emotional baggage but don't flaunt it. You have to earn their trust over time and eventually little things began to come forth. Through ME1 and ME2 you learned that Garrus had issues w/ his father and later issues about knowing what to do when things aren't simply black or white. Garrus: " MINOR SPOILER: DON"T READ FURTHER IF HAVE NOT PLAYED LotSB!


Even in LotSB you find out more info about Garrus' personal life; info that he has not shared w/ you directly. This content made me feel like Garrus has a life away from my character and while we're close (friends or together) there are still some things he holds private, whether bc he doesn't want to bother you w/ it or he's simply not ready to share. 

Having to work to earn someone's friendship and trust goes a long way in making the relationship feel meaningful. This combined with everything you wrote, Collider, would make for a great lead male henchman role. My opinion at least.

[rpgfan321]

 I admit that I have a bias with Kaidan having played Kotor. 
And I clearly saw the human characters were there for the Virmire plot. Romance also added more bias, too. 

Anyway Varric, the male henchman character, was awesome! I loved his wisecracking dwarf jaw! Hehe. Also he really compliments my sarcastic Hawke really well. 

Having romanced Jacob, I was a little eh when I did the deed (well also I paired him up with my full renegade FemShepard who I tried to play a little crazy). Only highlight from his romance was really when he asked my Shepard what she was feeling. Which is a welcome change for really any NPCs to ask my Shepard what she feels. I mean come on, the only lines PC characters ever get out are questions that push the plot. Like they are on some quiz show prompter screens that only ask you questions. Urgh.

Looks like to me the only reason lead male henchmen exist in Bioware game is really for the option of romance and if you do opt to go for romance that is the only path to getting to know them better as a character. Such a shame really.

Not everyone is or should be really talkative like Yeoman Chambers, and they don't really need to spill all their personal past and details to the PC. Remember those moments when Thane go be lost in his memories. Some were a bit iffy especially about tongue in one's mouth...

Only if the conversation allow some relationships to form then let the characters know each  other. Also not everyone should question Shepard if they want to have sexual relationship with s/he. I mean I know Shepard is charismatic, but really? Pfft. I mean when Jack said to my FemShepard that she is not that sort of party girl, I was kind of offended (well not really offended, but taken a bit back) I wanted to know her better and can't because I am on the other side of the gender fence. I don't want to know everything there is to know about a character's life because that would take so many hours of the game, but sufficient enough that they are all introduced well enough that they rage in the minds of fans.
 
I liked the cutscenes that introduced each character in ME2. It suited them really well and what they are about. The recruitment missions are really interesting and I think it gives you sufficient background on how to pick the assignments for the suicide run. A picture is worth a thousand words, right? They way Zaeed kicked that Batarian on his four-eyed face, how Legion sniped with accuracy, and Jack's crazy biotic, skull crushing punch. 
Utilizing cutscenes more to define the surface of individual characters. Now for ME3 it should be utilized for each races Shepard visits, but where would Shepard be without his/her henchmen?
Then use the conversations to map out the more personal aspects. I think BW did that really well in the past games.

Wow this is really long, but this shows how much I love the ME series. ME FTW! 

Modifié par rpgfan321, 15 juin 2011 - 07:47 .

[shumworld]

I believe Jacob would be more likable if his biotics were displayed like how Miranda's was. I mean a bad ass scene would of made him more memorable. Also I think the whole dad is a bad guy was a weak loyalty mission. I think he would of shined a lot more had his loyalty mission dealt with the Corsairs; the group he mention he was a part of.

One can only assume the reason why Kasumi has the hots for Jacob is just to add some character to him that a chick digs him.

In anycase, if he comes back I hope he gets fleshed out. I'd get a chuckle if he said a line as campy as "The prize". I heard the VS will play a major role in ME3. So I'm looking forward to seeing Kaidan kick ass.