287 réponses à ce sujet

[tagoloan boy]

Im not too supportive for s/s romances unless female leads. But if they rely need a new male ****** or bi character, i suppose its ok to just go for a new character to fill that need. It seems like James Vega is all but considered an either ****** or bi love interest. I suppose this is about as supportive or tolerant that people like myself can get. So game on! ;-)

[NedPepper]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

ChristianSoldier wrote...


I dont hate gays i am just disappointed that BIOWARE would allow gay sex in ME just to appeal to the gay people. Gay is unnatural.

And yet all kinds of animals exhibit homosexual behavior all across the animal kingdom. <_<  

I've got to be honest, but which animals do this? I know rabbits do this, but I wouldn't call it homosexuality.

I don't know if this question has been answered or not, but it has been proven that dolphins engage in same sex relationships, as well as some whales.  Also, monkeys and apes.  Hell, I'm convinced my dog is gay. 

[Pax of Doom]

thejshman wrote...

I'm Commander Shepard, and Kaidan Alenko is my favorite power bottom.

[ForumPortal]

IsaacShep wrote...

thejshman wrote...

I'm Commander Shepard, and Kaidan Alenko is my favorite power bottom.

haha xD

Abiogenist wrote...
*nosebleed*

Bioware, please show some scene like that (ala ME1 style) and I swear I'll be your Biodrone forevhur!
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie]

Lol I suspect tons of "I am COmmander Shepard and this is..." easter eggs in ME3 xD

ForumPortal wrote...

Can we all just let my thread drop or be ignore?

You've added this nonsense retcon argument to the title, you're susprised people who are anti-gay and use this excuse all the time cannot resist this thread now?

Nonsense? How is it nonsense? I presented a valid title with a valid posts for it. I also can't control who posts in my threads either. 

[shepskisaac]

ForumPortal wrote...
Nonsense? How is it nonsense? I presented a valid title with a valid posts for it. I also can't control who posts in my threads either.

Because you can't retcon something that wasn't made canon/established in the first place. None of the characters declared his/her exact sexual orientation. The fact they slept with one gender in previous games does not automatically exclude the possibility they may like other gender as well. It's really very simple.

[ForumPortal]

Montezuma IV wrote...

Saying the word "recton" is non-sense...Especially in the mass effect world where bi-sexuality was not denied by any character...

But your opinion of "nonsense" is not fact or a norm, it's your own opinion on what is classified as "nonsense"

I wanted a discussion on bi-sexual romance retcons and it turn into a hate/flame war. 

[zkellerman]

@Recon

And where else, exactly, would you use that 1% development cost? There's only so much of the same, recycled content you can add with a new tarnish before you have to look outside the box.

At the end of the day, you're not a market researcher for Mass Effect and if Bioware implement same sex romance (which really, they kind have done with Liara / FemShep already), it is because THEY want to or feel their game could benefit from it.

Honestly, what is your argument? If you disagree with others views, ethics or values then you are certainly welcome to your view but when you voice aggression to people who have done you no wrong or generalization towards others just because you don't like an idealogy / it / them / whoever, then you just devalue any points you may have as people will not take your original points as seriously as you want them to be taken.

You've let your concerns against certain game content and potential resource waste get muddied with personal feelings towards something which is hardly related in the wider sense, in which I ask; why? Universally, it (same sex romance) certainly isn't doing you or the game any harm, nor is this thread or the people in it.

[Blacklash93]

"Retcon" may not be exactly the right word, but the TC's point still stands. Adjusting an established character's sexuality (even if it wasn't blatantly stated) simply for the sake of fanservice is, at the very least, implausable.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 12 juin 2011 - 08:30 .

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

Bioware puts same-sex options for FemShep, nobody bats an eye. Bioware puts in same-sex romances for Man Shep and people flip out.  Love me some double standards.

Also, I highly doubt Kaidan is going to be an option, as the game will probably default Ashley as being the Virmire survivor for ManShep.

Modifié par Red by Full Metal Jacket, 12 juin 2011 - 08:29 .

[Clover Rider]

ForumPortal wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

Saying the word "recton" is non-sense...Especially in the mass effect world where bi-sexuality was not denied by any character...

But your opinion of "nonsense" is not fact or a norm, it's your own opinion on what is classified as "nonsense"

I wanted a discussion on bi-sexual romance retcons and it turn into a hate/flame war. 

If they "made" someone bi in a believable way would it be a retcon?

[SilentK]

Ryzaki wrote...

SilentK wrote...

Is there any way to get the tread onto more of a ME3 happy tone? I'm guessing Vega. I really want to romance Joker with my FemShep, but I would be happy to share with MaleShep as well. They haven't said anything about a new female squad member as far as I know so I guess that won't be happening. Wait and see I guess.

I wish we had a better screenie of Vega. That blurr screenie does him little justice.

And Joker would be awesome as the m/m option. I can only daydream. Him expressing survivor guilt over Shep's death...and his "you're not leaving me again!" during the everyone dies ending.

I know    <3   hope that they can work it out! He is just wonderful in ME2 so I'm keeping all my fingers crossed!

It would be fun with a new female squad memeber if it's possible. Ash is dead for all my Sheps, can't kill my main LI in ME so I would miss out on her is she would be a new female s/s - LI. Hmmm... could they make Kellys role bigger and let her be the new female s/s-LI? Sort of hoping for a new girl but it isn't that important. I am however very curious about James Vega. Hope that we will get a pic soon, a good one I mean.

If the s/s-companions are never romanced in game, I don't think bioware would put too much resource into it. But if they turn out to be popular then it's the way to go. And if they are popular, then that has not been a waste of resources.

Modifié par SilentK, 12 juin 2011 - 08:31 .

[Ryzaki]

@Blacklash: And distasteful. It wasn't good with Tali and Garrus and I don't feel it would be good with Kaidan or any other male LI that was previously introduced.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juin 2011 - 08:33 .

[KawaiiKatie]

ReconTeam wrote...

Why this assumption that everything is the same?

Because if female Shepard can identify as gay, male Shepard should be allowed to identify as gay. To say that a lesbian can save the world but a gay man cannot is highly questionable.

The truth is many male players find FemShep on Liara action hot, and nothing's wrong with Bioware for going where the money is.

This only furthers my point that Mass Effect has always bordered on lesbian exploitation.... but that's a whole different can of worms.

In terms of # of players, probably more males were doing that romance than lesbians. It isn't about equal treatment, it's a game, an entertainment product.

Again, only a small percent of the fanbase actually uses female Shepard. So whY should Bioware even bother to include her? It's because fans want it, and though they may be a minority, you're assertion that "this is a product" is completely correct--Bioware expects to see full return on every dime they spend on female Shepard-specific content. The same goes for gay male Shepard. Bioware would not have included it if they didn't expect it to reflect well in their profits. So maybe there's quite a few more fans of gay male Shepard than you think!

You honestly believe you're getting descriminated agaisnt if a developer doesn't give you what you want? With this sort of thinking how do you operate in the real world? If FemShep can be a lesbian, MaleShep should be able to be gay? Says who? I don't see the basis for this assumption.

Yes. Allowing the female alternate of your hero to be gay but insisting that the male version is straight feels restricted and discriminatory. Every player should be able to customize Shepard down to gender, race, and sexuality.

Ask, demand, it often depends on the tone. And the tone has always seemed to be more of a demand. For example, FemShep can sleep with Liara, so Bioware "owes" you gay MaleShep? It's this sense of entitlement.

No, Bioware never "owed" me a gay male Shepard. But if ME3 has continued to imply that lesbians are awesome and hot but gay males are nonexistent, I would have voted against it the only way a consumer can vote: with my wallet. I would not have purchased ME3 without the promise of equality for gay Shepards of both genders. Perhaps you see that as a sense of entitlement, but I see it as a sense of morality.

If you are disgusted or disappointed with the inclusion of homosexual males in ME3, please, feel free to vote against ME3 with your wallet by not purchasing it. Or, you can simply recall that none of the homosexual content will be forced on you, just as none of the heterosexual content has ever been force on me.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 12 juin 2011 - 08:34 .

[ForumPortal]

IsaacShep wrote...

ForumPortal wrote...
Nonsense? How is it nonsense? I presented a valid title with a valid posts for it. I also can't control who posts in my threads either.

Because you can't retcon something that wasn't made canon/established in the first place. None of the characters declared his/her exact sexual orientation. The fact they slept with one gender in previous games does not automatically exclude the possibility they may like other gender as well. It's really very simple.

Actually it's not simple. Just because they didn't say they were straight doesn't mean they are. My co-worker is gay but he doesn't go around shouting I'm gay to strangers. 

I found out he was gay before he even told me. I knew he was gay based on the history he told me and the amount of homosexual friends that he is friends or aquantience with.

[tmk]

ReconTeam wrote...
A 1% increase in development costs? That's still a good sum of money. Use it elsewhere! I don't see how sales would be increased considering that most of the people demanding this content bought the previous two games and would have bought the third anyway. They probably did it so some Gaider type could do some interviews, make a big deal about it, and all of the hipsters using their Macbooks at Starbucks will read it and praise them for it.

And suddenly you go by "I think", "I don't see how", "they probably" instead of logic. Marketing doesn't work on probablies. Hipsters with Macbooks are a very good consumer base to appeal to, by the way, they like to be progressive and have money to spend.

And it's a pretty well-known fact that the longer a series is running, the more relationships become important over the plot itself. You'd be surprised how many people won't buy the game if characters/pairings they are interested in won't be handled properly. After all, who really cares about paying $80 to save just another virtual world that doesn't even acknowledge your sexual preference?

[Ryzaki]

SilentK wrote...
I know    <3   hope that they can work it out! He is just wonderful in ME2 so I'm keeping all my fingers crossed!

It would be fun with a new female squad memeber if it's possible. Ash is dead for all my Sheps, can't kill my main LI in ME so I would miss out on her is she would be a new female s/s - LI. Hmmm... could they make Kellys role bigger and let her be the new female s/s-LI? Sort of hoping for a new girl but it isn't that important. I am however very curious about James Vega. Hope that we will get a pic soon, a good one I mean.

Me too.

Ah I hope she's human. Ash is dead for all my Sheps save one. (damn ninjamancing) as for Kelly. She sort of gave me cavaities. Way too nice. Hoping it's a newgirl myself.

And yes Vega needs a decent poster sized pic. I wanna see his face in high res.

[jlb524]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Why is it annoying though?  It can't be due to realism, as all romances are unrealistic in many others ways...even in ME/DA:O the romanceable characters will go for any PC regardless of things like class/race/morality...which is also 'annoying' but I don't see why it matters anyway.

Perhaps I'm just prejudiced, but it feels very contrived to me when every possible LI (well, assuming there is more than 1 or 2) doesn't at all care that the protagonist is male or female.  Like I said, sexual orientation is a part of a persons identity and everyone being bisexual feels like a cop out.

My point is that these romances feel contrived in general, given that the LIs care nothing about what the protagonist is, elf/dwarf/human, good/bad/neutral, attractive/unattractive.  They are 'contrived' but it's done in this way to provide the player with options.  Also, sexual orientation is only a part of social identity when it's made into a big deal by a society (like ours)...this isn't the case in Thedas and may not be as important of a thing in the future where ME takes place.

[mya11]

I am agree for new romance bi or gay with new character but no please change sexuality of squadmates of ME1 and 2 for exampole Garrus or Tali, because there is no realist !

I don't want all bi as same dragon age 2 ! I think a new romance male or female for bi or gay is good, but it's just my opinion

[KawaiiKatie]

mya11 wrote...

I am agree for new romance bi or gay with new character but no please change sexuality of squadmates of ME1 and 2 for exampole Garrus or Tali, because there is no realist !

I'm just going to quote what I said the last time this came up on a "same-sex romance" forum....

KawaiiKatie wrote...

1490 wrote...

I mean not that I have a problem with it, I'd probably play through the game again just to try that relationship out, but the "why now" question comes up. Obviously out-of-game it was because Bioware hadn't implemented same-sex romances yet, but why wouldn't Ashley or Kaiden have shown same-sex interest by now if they've been eager to show opposite-sex interest.  It could be done with the "well I didn't know you liked that..." method, but that almost seems cliche to me. Tali was the only character that seemed obviously attracted to Femshep; I didn't really get that with any of the other characters.

The "why now" question came up from fans about Garrus and Tali, but it was never directly answered in-game. Tali hints that she has only recently developed a crush on Shepard, and Garrus is outright surprised by Shepard's advances, so I guess it's implied that Garrus simply assumed that Shepard wouldn't be interested in a Turian. It's the "I didn't know" excuse, but it worked for Garrus and Tali. It could work for Ash and Kaidan.

I'm a fan of the theory that if Ash and Kaidan were implemented as bisexual love-interests, it'll be because, like Tali, they didn't realize what their feelings were. Perhaps they didn't know just how much same-sex Shepard meant to them until Shepard died. Sexualities can change and evolve, and can do so with believability within the plot. Though the "I didn't know that you were gay" excuse or "I think I could go gay for you" may seem cliche out of context, remember that Tropes Are Tools, and not necassarily bad things. I have faith in the Bioware writers!

TL;DR: I trust the writers at Bioware to handle the addion of bisexual romantic content to previous characters with care, just as they did with Garrus and Tali when they became romance-options, even though they showed no interest in Shepard throughout ME1.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 12 juin 2011 - 08:48 .

[shepskisaac]

Blacklash93 wrote...
"Retcon" may not be exactly the right word, but the TC's point still stands. Adjusting an established character's sexuality (even if it wasn't blatantly stated) simply for the sake of fanservice is, at the very least, implausable.

They're not adjusting anything though. They don't change their liking for women in a bit (talking about guys), only adding/revealing they also like man. All hypothetically of course.

Ryzaki wrote...

@Blacklash: And distasteful. It wasn't good with Tali and Garrus and I don't feel it would be good with Kaidan or any other male LI that was previously introduced.

How wasn't it good with Tali? Her romance was written well.

ForumPortal wrote...
Actually it's not simple. Just because they didn't say they were straight doesn't mean they are. My co-worker is gay but he doesn't go around shouting I'm gay to strangers.

That's what I'm talking about and it works both ways. You can nveer be sure about someone's sexuality unless he/she explictly states it him/herself. Which is why you can't talk about retconing if you don't even know for sure what Kaidan/Garrus/Thane/Jacob's exact orientation was. They never say it th

Modifié par IsaacShep, 12 juin 2011 - 08:45 .

[PanzerDivision]

As long as being kind doesn't mean "let's f*ck", I'm ok with this.

[SilentNukee]

mya11 wrote...

I am agree for new romance bi or gay with new character but no please change sexuality of squadmates of ME1 and 2 for exampole Garrus or Tali, because there is no realist !

I don't want all bi as same dragon age 2 ! I think a new romance male or female for bi or gay is good, but it's just my opinion

It's realistic for Tali, Garrus...not so much. But I'm sure people will QQ if Tali becomes an option and Garrus doesn't.

Also, why are people making it seem like ..inter-species relations to be better than human homosexual ones!? I mean, they both can't produce offsprings, and that's a major reason why "straight" people might dislike the idea of homosexuality, right? (I'm not really straight, I think everyone should go for the heart instead of anatomy..So I dunno. )

I'm all for introducing new s/s LI options, but if it's logical, to have previous squadmates open up that door as well. Nothing like DA2, of course. People don't seem to get they're both completely different teams, anyway. We should really wait for more information on the matter however, or else we'll just have everyone bashing each other like it's happening now.

Modifié par SilentNukee, 12 juin 2011 - 08:49 .

[HogarthHughes 3]

jlb524 wrote...

My point is that these romances feel contrived in general, given that the LIs care nothing about what the protagonist is, elf/dwarf/human, good/bad/neutral, attractive/unattractive.  They are 'contrived' but it's done in this way to provide the player with options.  Also, sexual orientation is only a part of social identity when it's made into a big deal by a society (like ours)...this isn't the case in Thedas and may not be as important of a thing in the future where ME takes place.

Even if sexual orientation is completely unimportant in the DA or ME universe (which it seems it generally is), people still have their own preferences.  To me there is still a world of difference between the male and female elves/dwarves/humans (perhaps there are more asexual fantasy/sci-fi races that have yet to be introduced as a LI in Bioware games) etc. when it comes to physical attraction.  As for looks, the dialogue seems to imply that the protagonist is generally handsome/beautiful regardless of how the player made them.  I understand that making more characters bisexual provides more options and thus more players will likely be happier with than without.  I still don't like it, and would prefer more variety in sexual preferences amongst the characters over more choices.  I'll admit that it is selfish of me to want this for future Bioware titles.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 12 juin 2011 - 08:54 .