287 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

Montezuma IV wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Montezuma IV wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Actually, society's view towards homosexuality hasn't gone forward, only in circles.

How so? If it has gone in circles I'd say it was a very, very large circle.

The Romans and Greeks embraced homosexuality, as did (and still is pretty gay friendly) Japan (some samurais had male partners, if I recall). Then came the time of feudal (medieval or whatever) Europe (and all time afterwards), and homosexuality was viewed as a detestable act. We seem to be going back to before those days.

I was guessing you were talking about this and while parts of that may be true that is not the whole truth. For example in Greek and Rome it was more of a bordering pedophillic coming-of-age ritual and was far more common in women. You are right...they didn't identify themselve by sexuality but Aldut Male realtionships where a stigma and often the weaker (or bottom.....) would be shuned.

So while they did ...somewhat tolerate it....not much different from today. To be a man you can't love another man and you definitly can't be a man's lover. And lets not forget that same issue that keeps most people from accepting homosexuals (besides...religion).....being seen as feminine.

you do know the origin of the word Lesbian?

not all relationships were healthy, but that's not something unique to homosexuality or ancient times.  and not all of the same sex relationships, far from them - were of the child/adult variety.  there are frescos and vases depicting 2 or more bearded warriors going at it. 

[ForumPortal]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ever notice how the pro-same-sex crowd can resist talking about this when the devs say "cool it until X date", but the anti-same-sex crowd simply can NOT stop talking about it? What's up with that? *raises eyebrow*

Didn't you read my first post? I'm all for bi romance 

[KawaiiKatie]

My gay male Shepard is so ready to be out of the closet. Maybe Liara will finally take the hint!

[Ryzaki]

OP your edit was *way* too late.

[Pinkflu]

The simplest of logical examination reveals the concept of 'retconning pre-existing sexuality' to be a fallacy.

We've all heard of the process of 'coming out' - the step a gay person takes to make their new-found identity as a non-heterosexual known, usually firstly to their family and closest friends. However, it is becoming broadly agreed upon due to biological research and education, that sexuality is a matter of genetics.

Therefore, when people come out, they're not 'turning gay'. It is not possible to change sexuality. If a person comes out, it's because they were gay all along, they just didn't realise it. For some people, this happens very early in their lives. Other people
don't figure it out (or perhaps they spend much of their adult life
denying it) until much later.

This is part of the reason why right-wing moral panic about the 'gay agenda' is so laughable - even if there were a gay agenda (9:05am - discussion of last meeting's issues, 12pm - break for lunch, 1pm - encourage girls to kiss each other?) it wouldn't be able to do much of anything, because sexuality cannot be changed. For srs, science has tried. There are studies.

In light of this, those arguing against 'sexuality retcon' need to consider the following; none of the characters have explicitly expressed their sexual identity. Several of them have alluded to past experiences/preferences (Garrus and flexibility Turian) however even if they had done so, for reasons I've just explained, they could discover their true sexuality at a later date. Furthermore, at no point in the ME series are you forced to pursue a romance with any character.

So, you need to ask yourself this; is my plea to Bioware to not 'retcon' the sexuality of already-established characters grounded in logical reasoning, or do I simply dislike the idea of characters I personally like turning out to be gay? If you think about it with any kind of sincerity, the answer may be illuminating.

I will say this, though; it would be excessive for all characters to be bi. Not only because it would be difficult to believe and realistically unlikely, but also because difference is a good thing. Celebrate diversity. It's a good thing.

Modifié par Pinkflu, 12 juin 2011 - 06:42 .

[Illeuad]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

My gay male Shepard is so ready to be out of the closet. Maybe Liara will finally take the hint!

*chortle* Poor Liara. 

[shepskisaac]

Pinkflu wrote...

The simplest of logical examination reveals the concept of 'retconning pre-existing sexuality' to be a fallacy.

We've all heard of the process of 'coming out' - the step a gay person takes to make their new-found identity as a non-heterosexual known, usually firstly to their family and closest friends. However, it is becoming broadly agreed upon due to biological research and education, that sexuality is a matter of genetics.

Therefore, when people come out, they're not 'turning gay'. It is not possible to change sexuality. If a person comes out, it's because they were gay all along, they just didn't realise it. For some people, this happens very early in their lives. Other people
don't figure it out (or perhaps they spend much of their adult life
denying it) until much later.

This is part of the reason why right-wing moral panic about the 'gay agenda' is so laughable - even if there were a gay agenda (9:05am - discussion of last meeting's issues, 12pm - break for lunch, 1pm - encourage girls to kiss each other?) it wouldn't be able to do much of anything, because sexuality cannot be changed. For srs, science has tried. There are studies.

In light of this, those arguing against 'sexuality retcon' need to consider the following; none of the characters have explicitly expressed their sexual identity. Several of them have alluded to past experiences/preferences (Garrus and flexibility Turian) however even if they had done so, for reasons I've just explained, they could discover their true sexuality at a later date. Furthermore, at no point in the ME series are you forced to pursue a romance with any character.

So, you need to ask yourself this; is my plea to Bioware to not 'retcon' the sexuality of already-established characters grounded in logical reasoning, or do I simply dislike the idea of characters I personally like turning out to be gay? If you think about it with any kind of sincerity, the answer may be illuminating.

I will say this, though; it would be excessive for all characters to be bi. Not only because it would be difficult to believe and realistically unlikely, but also because difference is a good thing. Celebrate diversity. It's a good thing.

B-R-A-V-O.

[Siansonea]

ForumPortal wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ever notice how the pro-same-sex crowd can resist talking about this when the devs say "cool it until X date", but the anti-same-sex crowd simply can NOT stop talking about it? What's up with that? *raises eyebrow*

Didn't you read my first post? I'm all for bi romance 

Yes, but whenever this topic appears, the Usual Suspects swoop in and start railing at BioWare for all sorts of things that haven't been proven to be up for consideration yet. No one at BioWare has so much as hinted that existing characters are going to be expanded as same-sex LIs, but you would think that it's been set in stone the way they rant about it. So then the pro-same-sex group arrives and tries to laboriously deconstruct the logic, which inevitably devolves into the exact same conversation that has occurred over and over again in the forums. We get it, most people would prefer new characters to a DA2-style smorgasbord. That's nothing new. I think BioWare got that memo. Regardless, we've been very politely asked to refrain from discussing same-sex romances until Chris Priestly restarts the discussion himself. You may not have been aware of that, but that's where we stand right now with the subject. For what it's worth, I commend you on your very mature attitude toward this rather polarizing subject.

[Fidget6]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ever notice how the pro-same-sex crowd can resist talking about this when the devs say "cool it until X date", but the anti-same-sex crowd simply can NOT stop talking about it? What's up with that? *raises eyebrow*

That's just not true at all. I'm VERY pro-same sex, but both sides can't resist talking about it.

[Darthnemesis2]

Pinkflu wrote...

The simplest of logical examination reveals the concept of 'retconning pre-existing sexuality' to be a fallacy.

We've all heard of the process of 'coming out' - the step a gay person takes to make their new-found identity as a non-heterosexual known, usually firstly to their family and closest friends. However, it is becoming broadly agreed upon due to biological research and education, that sexuality is a matter of genetics.

Therefore, when people come out, they're not 'turning gay'. It is not possible to change sexuality. If a person comes out, it's because they were gay all along, they just didn't realise it. For some people, this happens very early in their lives. Other people
don't figure it out (or perhaps they spend much of their adult life
denying it) until much later.

This is part of the reason why right-wing moral panic about the 'gay agenda' is so laughable - even if there were a gay agenda (9:05am - discussion of last meeting's issues, 12pm - break for lunch, 1pm - encourage girls to kiss each other?) it wouldn't be able to do much of anything, because sexuality cannot be changed. For srs, science has tried. There are studies.

In light of this, those arguing against 'sexuality retcon' need to consider the following; none of the characters have explicitly expressed their sexual identity. Several of them have alluded to past experiences/preferences (Garrus and flexibility Turian) however even if they had done so, for reasons I've just explained, they could discover their true sexuality at a later date. Furthermore, at no point in the ME series are you forced to pursue a romance with any character.

So, you need to ask yourself this; is my plea to Bioware to not 'retcon' the sexuality of already-established characters grounded in logical reasoning, or do I simply dislike the idea of characters I personally like turning out to be gay? If you think about it with any kind of sincerity, the answer may be illuminating.

I will say this, though; it would be excessive for all characters to be bi. Not only because it would be difficult to believe and realistically unlikely, but also because difference is a good thing. Celebrate diversity. It's a good thing.

Someone please get this man an entire internets full of cookies. NAO!

[Trakarg]

ChristianSoldier wrote...

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

ChristianSoldier wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

ChristianSoldier wrote...

i am very disappointed with BIOWARE's decision to allow same sex romance in ME3. It is very disconcerting considering the fact that ME is filled with Christian allusions. -1 BIOWARE.

wtf???  Also, most modern Christians I know have nothing against homosexuality. It's the 21st Century, time to start acting like it. If you're going to take every word in the bible literally you'd better start thinking about what would be a good price you could fetch for your daughter to be sold off into slavery for, and stone your neighbor who planted their crops the wrong way.

"Most modern Christians i know have nothing against homosexuality." Where have you been living?

I am not perfect therefore I have no right to stone my neighbor. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus. When people were about to stone the prostitute mary, Jesus told them that there were not as perfect as the prostitute therefore they dont have the right to stone her.

Going by that logic, that also means people don't have the right to hate gays, am I right?

I dont hate gays i am just disappointed that BIOWARE would allow gay sex in ME just to appeal to the gay people. Gay is unnatural.

Trololololololol.

[ForumPortal]

Siansonea II wrote...

ForumPortal wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ever notice how the pro-same-sex crowd can resist talking about this when the devs say "cool it until X date", but the anti-same-sex crowd simply can NOT stop talking about it? What's up with that? *raises eyebrow*

Didn't you read my first post? I'm all for bi romance 

Yes, but whenever this topic appears, the Usual Suspects swoop in and start railing at BioWare for all sorts of things that haven't been proven to be up for consideration yet. No one at BioWare has so much as hinted that existing characters are going to be expanded as same-sex LIs, but you would think that it's been set in stone the way they rant about it. So then the pro-same-sex group arrives and tries to laboriously deconstruct the logic, which inevitably devolves into the exact same conversation that has occurred over and over again in the forums. We get it, most people would prefer new characters to a DA2-style smorgasbord. That's nothing new. I think BioWare got that memo. Regardless, we've been very politely asked to refrain from discussing same-sex romances until Chris Priestly restarts the discussion himself. You may not have been aware of that, but that's where we stand right now with the subject. For what it's worth, I commend you on your very mature attitude toward this rather polarizing subject.

Thanks too for giving a discussion too 

I already message a moderator to lock down this thread so its only a matter of time for lockdown

[Fidget6]

ForumPortal wrote...

I already message a moderator to lock down this thread so its only a matter of time for lockdown

Awwww, but I was having fun.  Oh well.....

[Siansonea]

Fidget6 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ever notice how the pro-same-sex crowd can resist talking about this when the devs say "cool it until X date", but the anti-same-sex crowd simply can NOT stop talking about it? What's up with that? *raises eyebrow*

That's just not true at all. I'm VERY pro-same sex, but both sides can't resist talking about it.

Lots of fun chitchat in the Fight For The Love group if'n ya wanna join.

[Shishmish]

Well Greece and Rome aside, In ancient Japan, I believe the Edo period, it was considered more honorable to have a relationship with another man than with a woman, especially in samurai circles.
History aside, its shocking that in modern day of age people are so hostile about it, especially since privacy is considered one of the most important rights of a human being. What do you give a sh!t what happens behind closed doors of two grown up men who live their life how they want to? What does their sexual preference have to do in how you interact with them?

[KawaiiKatie]

Fidget6 wrote...

ForumPortal wrote...

I already message a moderator to lock down this thread so its only a matter of time for lockdown

Awwww, but I was having fun.  Oh well.....

We're supposed to get "new info" on love-interests this week, so we'll be able to talk about it soon!

...though, my guess is that the "announcement" is going to be, "Same-sex romances! ...you can have them. Discuss away!"

...because Bioware loves to troll us.

[Siansonea]

Just want to remind everyone who's interested that we CAN discuss s/s stuff here on the BSN in the Fight For The Love group. Best part: no trolls!

[ElitePinecone]

We'll know more in a few days.

Everyone just... chill. Making comparisons to DA2 is unhelpful.

[Fidget6]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

ForumPortal wrote...

I already message a moderator to lock down this thread so its only a matter of time for lockdown

Awwww, but I was having fun.  Oh well.....

We're supposed to get "new info" on love-interests this week, so we'll be able to talk about it soon!

...though, my guess is that the "announcement" is going to be, "Same-sex romances! ...you can have them. Discuss away!"

...because Bioware loves to troll us.

Yeah they do. I have a feeling Chris will just start an official "romance discussion thread" with no new info for us to bicker amongst ourselves. =( Hopefully we'll get just a teensy bit of new info though. *crosses fingers*

[Siansonea]

Fidget6 wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

ForumPortal wrote...

I already message a moderator to lock down this thread so its only a matter of time for lockdown

Awwww, but I was having fun.  Oh well.....

We're supposed to get "new info" on love-interests this week, so we'll be able to talk about it soon!

...though, my guess is that the "announcement" is going to be, "Same-sex romances! ...you can have them. Discuss away!"

...because Bioware loves to troll us.

Yeah they do. I have a feeling Chris will just start an official "romance discussion thread" with no new info for us to bicker amongst ourselves. =( Hopefully we'll get just a teensy bit of new info though. *crosses fingers*

As long as the new info contains the words "human" and "hawt", I'll be happy.

[Fidget6]

Siansonea II wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ever notice how the pro-same-sex crowd can resist talking about this when the devs say "cool it until X date", but the anti-same-sex crowd simply can NOT stop talking about it? What's up with that? *raises eyebrow*

That's just not true at all. I'm VERY pro-same sex, but both sides can't resist talking about it.

Lots of fun chitchat in the Fight For The Love group if'n ya wanna join.

Okies! If I can find it, I normally just use the forums, so I'm not sure how groups and such work exactly. ;;

EDIT: Joined! lol.

Modifié par Fidget6, 12 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[Ryzaki]

ElitePinecone wrote...

We'll know more in a few days.

Everyone just... chill. Making comparisons to DA2 is unhelpful.

 

I love DA2's approach. Though there are just too many LIs for it to work in ME. (would've worked beautifully in ME1 though. That was a missed opportunity).