287 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

Fidget6 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ever notice how the pro-same-sex crowd can resist talking about this when the devs say "cool it until X date", but the anti-same-sex crowd simply can NOT stop talking about it? What's up with that? *raises eyebrow*

That's just not true at all. I'm VERY pro-same sex, but both sides can't resist talking about it.

Lots of fun chitchat in the Fight For The Love group if'n ya wanna join.

Okies! If I can find it, I normally just use the forums, so I'm not sure how groups and such work exactly. ;;

You found us! *highfives*

[Fidget6]

Ryzaki wrote...
(would've worked beautifully in ME1 though. That was a missed opportunity). 

Aye, I would've LOVED gay Kaidan, and actually when I first played the game I was hoping he was a same-sex LI when I first met him. But alas no..... At this point it would just be too little too late though. =(

[shepskisaac]

Ryzaki wrote...

I love DA2's approach. Though there are just too many LIs for it to work in ME. (would've worked beautifully in ME1 though. That was a missed opportunity). 

Never too late to fix anything. They missed the oppurtunity for Tali romance in ME1, they fixed that in 2.

[GodWood]

Shishmish wrote...
Well Greece and Rome aside, In ancient Japan, I believe the Edo period, it was considered more honorable to have a relationship with another man than with a woman, especially in samurai circles.

The Edo period started around 1600 so I'd hardly call that 'ancient Japan'.
The last bit is true to an extent though, homosexual relationships weren't considered 'more honorable' as you said but they were quite common amongst samurai and largely accepted.

Modifié par GodWood, 12 juin 2011 - 07:03 .

[Fidget6]

Siansonea II wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Ever notice how the pro-same-sex crowd can resist talking about this when the devs say "cool it until X date", but the anti-same-sex crowd simply can NOT stop talking about it? What's up with that? *raises eyebrow*

That's just not true at all. I'm VERY pro-same sex, but both sides can't resist talking about it.

Lots of fun chitchat in the Fight For The Love group if'n ya wanna join.

Okies! If I can find it, I normally just use the forums, so I'm not sure how groups and such work exactly. ;;

You found us! *highfives*

Woot! 

[Ryzaki]

Fidget6 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
(would've worked beautifully in ME1 though. That was a missed opportunity). 

Aye, I would've LOVED gay Kaidan, and actually when I first played the game I was hoping he was a same-sex LI when I first met him. But alas no..... At this point it would just be too little too late though. =(

Yeah if it had happened in ME1 it would've been marvelous. If it happens in ME3 it'll feel tacked on to me. 

I don't want sloppy seconds.  

[HiddenKING]

Siansonea II wrote...

Just want to remind everyone who's interested that we CAN discuss s/s stuff here on the BSN in the Fight For The Love group. Best part: no trolls!

I'm already a member. I joined mostly cuz I support my friends, but these... foul, detrimental people are getting on my nerves.

[KawaiiKatie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
(would've worked beautifully in ME1 though. That was a missed opportunity). 

Aye, I would've LOVED gay Kaidan, and actually when I first played the game I was hoping he was a same-sex LI when I first met him. But alas no..... At this point it would just be too little too late though. =(

Yeah if it had happened in ME1 it would've been marvelous. If it happens in ME3 it'll feel tacked on to me. 

I don't want sloppy seconds.  

If Kaidan was opened up as a bisexual romance in ME3 (which seems likely--what straight Shepard saved Kaidan over Ashley on Virmire, and is still single after two games?) I trust the writers at Bioware to do so believably and with great respect to his character development.

[Ryzaki]

Montezuma IV wrote...
Shepard will take sloppy seconds. He'll take raunchy thirds while he's at it. 

Your Shepard will take sloppy seconds. 

The only character my Shep would ever be willing to have sloppy seconds on is TIM. 

KawaiiKatie wrote...
If Kaidan was opened up as a bisexual romance in ME3 (which seems likely--what straight Shepard saved Kaidan over Ashley on Virmire, and is still single after two games?) I trust the writers at Bioware to do so believably and with great respect to his character development.

Uh...*looks at Tali* I'm not so sure about that. (of course it's a YMMV but...it didn't work with Tali at all to me. Garrus was more of a hit but Tali was a complete miss in my view). 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juin 2011 - 07:08 .

[ChristianSoldier]

Ryzaki wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

We'll know more in a few days.

Everyone just... chill. Making comparisons to DA2 is unhelpful.

 

I love DA2's approach. Though there are just too many LIs for it to work in ME. (would've worked beautifully in ME1 though. That was a missed opportunity). 

I believe its EAs doing.

[shepskisaac]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

If Kaidan was opened up as a bisexual romance in ME3 (which seems likely--what straight Shepard saved Kaidan over Ashley on Virmire, and is still single after two games?) I trust the writers at Bioware to do so believably and with great respect to his character development.

Ugly Shepard?

[Pax of Doom]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I got this feeling that Kaidan (or a new guy) and Vega will be the two new male LIs. I have no idea about a new female LI.

For female, probably Jack, as she did mention her dabbling.  Probably also Ash, though that bothers me for a different reason: she would be considered "butch" and dismissed.  I know ME takes place in the future, but in the here and now I still see men who think a strong, rough and tumble woman is either a b*****, or is a lez who wants to be a man.  Having Ash be a strong woman was refreshing, since there wasn't that insinuation.  But here's to hoping all the relationships in ME3 are good.  

[Ryzaki]

ChristianSoldier wrote...
I believe its EAs doing.

 

I doubt it was EA. They let DAO and DA2 without messing with the gay romances. The ME dev did say they didn't find the s/s romance dialogue to do justice to the characters or sound right. 

Montezuma IV wrote...
Then don't eat!

 

Fine. 

*picks up Kai Lang and leaves* 

It'll be canon in my head if nowhere else. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 juin 2011 - 07:10 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Pinkflu wrote...

The simplest of logical examination reveals the concept of 'retconning pre-existing sexuality' to be a fallacy.

We've all heard of the process of 'coming out' - the step a gay person takes to make their new-found identity as a non-heterosexual known, usually firstly to their family and closest friends. However, it is becoming broadly agreed upon due to biological research and education, that sexuality is a matter of genetics.

Therefore, when people come out, they're not 'turning gay'. It is not possible to change sexuality. If a person comes out, it's because they were gay all along, they just didn't realise it. For some people, this happens very early in their lives. Other people
don't figure it out (or perhaps they spend much of their adult life
denying it) until much later.

This is part of the reason why right-wing moral panic about the 'gay agenda' is so laughable - even if there were a gay agenda (9:05am - discussion of last meeting's issues, 12pm - break for lunch, 1pm - encourage girls to kiss each other?) it wouldn't be able to do much of anything, because sexuality cannot be changed. For srs, science has tried. There are studies.

In light of this, those arguing against 'sexuality retcon' need to consider the following; none of the characters have explicitly expressed their sexual identity. Several of them have alluded to past experiences/preferences (Garrus and flexibility Turian) however even if they had done so, for reasons I've just explained, they could discover their true sexuality at a later date. Furthermore, at no point in the ME series are you forced to pursue a romance with any character.

So, you need to ask yourself this; is my plea to Bioware to not 'retcon' the sexuality of already-established characters grounded in logical reasoning, or do I simply dislike the idea of characters I personally like turning out to be gay? If you think about it with any kind of sincerity, the answer may be illuminating.

I will say this, though; it would be excessive for all characters to be bi. Not only because it would be difficult to believe and realistically unlikely, but also because difference is a good thing. Celebrate diversity. It's a good thing.

Amazing the hoops some of you jump through to justify you want to retcon pre-existing characters Yes, retconned. This isn't real life or some lousy drama show on TV, these are characters written by Bioware. Everything in ME1 and ME2 has suggested they're straight. The math suggests they're straight. The only people proposing they aren't straight are those who have pushed for the addition of these romances out of personal interests. You're damned right I would be pissed if Bioware just decides these characters are suddenly bisexual in order to please a handful of players who feel they are entitled to sleep with anything they want.

Lets  put all of these feel-good buzzwords and "celebrate diversity" bumper-sticker nonsense aside for a second. Bioware should not try to appeal to every small group that wants something tailored to their tastes. This isn't a game about romances. It's a sci-fi RPG, not a damned dating simulator despite what some individuals here treat it as. Going out to appeal to gays speficially is as foolish as going out of the way to appeal to transvestites or people of certain ethnic groups. If those indivudals aren't going to buy the game as is, unless they get something specifically tailored to whatever they want to sleep with, that is too damned bad. It isn't Bioware's problem. They should design a game for a majority of players and not pander to the gay communit. Not everybody gets exactly what they want in game, why should they? Remember, this is all time and effort that can be used to create a greater experience. A game that will be remembered. Remebered for being an epic title, not for some Bioware writers and devs parading around how "accepting" they are. That's not what the typical gamer cares about, that's not what consumer base cares about. That's what rags like the Escapist and things totally unrelated to gaming write about in order to appear sophisticated.

Those arrogant individuals here who get up on their high horse and whine about "homophobia" and pat each other on the back need to realize that not everybody thinks like them. They have a right to their opinions, but others aren't required to be supportive and approving of homosexuality. Not everybody buys into today's insane level of political correctness where companies are supposed to cave into absurd demands like these.

[KawaiiKatie]

IsaacShep wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

If Kaidan was opened up as a bisexual romance in ME3 (which seems likely--what straight Shepard saved Kaidan over Ashley on Virmire, and is still single after two games?) I trust the writers at Bioware to do so believably and with great respect to his character development.

Ugly Shepard?

Pffffffft, Tali and Liara don't care if manShep is ugly, they still wanna hit that! In fact, they might not even know that Shepard is ugly, because they might have different standards of beauty!

...anyway, yeah, my gayShep is still painfully single, and waiting for Kaidan to come back to him. But if Kaidan comes back and still doesn't want in gayShep's pants, maybe James Vega will be more inclined....

<3

[TheLeetSkweet]

well, i don't argue, i just know that i'm going to find it awkward, since i actually like to talk a lot to my crew (namely thane and garrus), when they start trying to bang me as a dude shepard. i've had ashley, then miranda, probably gonna go with tali in ME3

[Pax of Doom]

Montezuma IV wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

My gay male Shepard is so ready to be out of the closet. Maybe Liara will finally take the hint!

Tell me about it! Drag Queen Shepard is ready to take her ****ing wig off and be a man!

Oh my, I thought I was the only one to have a Tranny Shep!    Jacob got quite a surPRIZE...

[shepskisaac]

ReconTeam wrote...
Amazing the hoops some of you jump through to justify you want to retcon pre-existing characters

Amazing the hoops you jump through to convince everyone they're expliclty established canonic heterosexuals just because you don't want them to be anything else.

KawaiiKatie wrote...
Pffffffft, Tali and Liara don't care if manShep is ugly, they still wanna hit that! In fact, they might not even know that Shepard is ugly, because they might have different standards of beauty!

Haha was just joking about the players who hate any kind of romances in RPGs and are always single ;P

Modifié par IsaacShep, 12 juin 2011 - 07:15 .

[Siansonea]

ReconTeam wrote...

Pinkflu wrote...

The simplest of logical examination reveals the concept of 'retconning pre-existing sexuality' to be a fallacy.

We've all heard of the process of 'coming out' - the step a gay person takes to make their new-found identity as a non-heterosexual known, usually firstly to their family and closest friends. However, it is becoming broadly agreed upon due to biological research and education, that sexuality is a matter of genetics.

Therefore, when people come out, they're not 'turning gay'. It is not possible to change sexuality. If a person comes out, it's because they were gay all along, they just didn't realise it. For some people, this happens very early in their lives. Other people
don't figure it out (or perhaps they spend much of their adult life
denying it) until much later.

This is part of the reason why right-wing moral panic about the 'gay agenda' is so laughable - even if there were a gay agenda (9:05am - discussion of last meeting's issues, 12pm - break for lunch, 1pm - encourage girls to kiss each other?) it wouldn't be able to do much of anything, because sexuality cannot be changed. For srs, science has tried. There are studies.

In light of this, those arguing against 'sexuality retcon' need to consider the following; none of the characters have explicitly expressed their sexual identity. Several of them have alluded to past experiences/preferences (Garrus and flexibility Turian) however even if they had done so, for reasons I've just explained, they could discover their true sexuality at a later date. Furthermore, at no point in the ME series are you forced to pursue a romance with any character.

So, you need to ask yourself this; is my plea to Bioware to not 'retcon' the sexuality of already-established characters grounded in logical reasoning, or do I simply dislike the idea of characters I personally like turning out to be gay? If you think about it with any kind of sincerity, the answer may be illuminating.

I will say this, though; it would be excessive for all characters to be bi. Not only because it would be difficult to believe and realistically unlikely, but also because difference is a good thing. Celebrate diversity. It's a good thing.

Amazing the hoops some of you jump through to justify you want to retcon pre-existing characters Yes, retconned. This isn't real life or some lousy drama show on TV, these are characters written by Bioware. Everything in ME1 and ME2 has suggested they're straight. The math suggests they're straight. The only people proposing they aren't straight are those who have pushed for the addition of these romances out of personal interests. You're damned right I would be pissed if Bioware just decides these characters are suddenly bisexual in order to please a handful of players who feel they are entitled to sleep with anything they want.

Lets  put all of these feel-good buzzwords and "celebrate diversity" bumper-sticker nonsense aside for a second. Bioware should not try to appeal to every small group that wants something tailored to their tastes. This isn't a game about romances. It's a sci-fi RPG, not a damned dating simulator despite what some individuals here treat it as. Going out to appeal to gays speficially is as foolish as going out of the way to appeal to transvestites or people of certain ethnic groups. If those indivudals aren't going to buy the game as is, unless they get something specifically tailored to whatever they want to sleep with, that is too damned bad. It isn't Bioware's problem. They should design a game for a majority of players and not pander to the gay communit. Not everybody gets exactly what they want in game, why should they? Remember, this is all time and effort that can be used to create a greater experience. A game that will be remembered. Remebered for being an epic title, not for some Bioware writers and devs parading around how "accepting" they are. That's not what the typical gamer cares about, that's not what consumer base cares about. That's what rags like the Escapist and things totally unrelated to gaming write about in order to appear sophisticated.

Those arrogant individuals here who get up on their high horse and whine about "homophobia" and pat each other on the back need to realize that not everybody thinks like them. They have a right to their opinions, but others aren't required to be supportive and approving of homosexuality. Not everybody buys into today's insane level of political correctness where companies are supposed to cave into absurd demands like these.

Well, when BioWare announces Gay Kaidan, your ire will at least seem proportionate. But such vitriol over mere speculation? Unwarranted, and overly strenuous. I think you're pretty much on record with this exact diatribe, so, why do you feel so compelled to repeat it every time the champagne bottles are uncorked by those who are happy at this inclusion (a group not solely comprised of LGBT individuals, I might add)?

[Whatever42]

ReconTeam wrote...

Amazing the hoops some of you jump through to justify you want to retcon pre-existing characters Yes, retconned. This isn't real life or some lousy drama show on TV, these are characters written by Bioware. Everything in ME1 and ME2 has suggested they're straight. The math suggests they're straight. The only people proposing they aren't straight are those who have pushed for the addition of these romances out of personal interests. You're damned right I would be pissed if Bioware just decides these characters are suddenly bisexual in order to please a handful of players who feel they are entitled to sleep with anything they want.

Lets  put all of these feel-good buzzwords and "celebrate diversity" bumper-sticker nonsense aside for a second. Bioware should not try to appeal to every small group that wants something tailored to their tastes. This isn't a game about romances. It's a sci-fi RPG, not a damned dating simulator despite what some individuals here treat it as. Going out to appeal to gays speficially is as foolish as going out of the way to appeal to transvestites or people of certain ethnic groups. If those indivudals aren't going to buy the game as is, unless they get something specifically tailored to whatever they want to sleep with, that is too damned bad. It isn't Bioware's problem. They should design a game for a majority of players and not pander to the gay communit. Not everybody gets exactly what they want in game, why should they? Remember, this is all time and effort that can be used to create a greater experience. A game that will be remembered. Remebered for being an epic title, not for some Bioware writers and devs parading around how "accepting" they are. That's not what the typical gamer cares about, that's not what consumer base cares about. That's what rags like the Escapist and things totally unrelated to gaming write about in order to appear sophisticated.

Those arrogant individuals here who get up on their high horse and whine about "homophobia" and pat each other on the back need to realize that not everybody thinks like them. They have a right to their opinions, but others aren't required to be supportive and approving of homosexuality. Not everybody buys into today's insane level of political correctness where companies are supposed to cave into absurd demands like these.

First of all, I haven't seen accusations of homophobia flying around.

Second, if I recall the petition threads, people were simply asking for fan service. I don't recall anyone insisting they were owed a particular romance. They were asking for romance options just like other players were asking for a Tali romance or a Garrus romance.

Third, most of the posters on that thread were pretty open to different ways of implementing their request. They weren't asking for all romancable characters to be bi at all, although Kaidan certainly seems to be a favorite. However, Kaidan was originally written with S/S romance in mind (the voice overs are there for S/S) so if its a retcon, its not a huge one.

Fourth, I don't see anyone on this thread as being on a high-horse. They are happy that Bioware honoured their request. Again, I don't ever have the sense that anyone though it was a demand that must be honoured.

Lastly, why so angry?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Montezuma IV wrote...
Such a stupid thing to say.....I don't even know how to respond. It's more then a number it's the passing of time. Time brings change and a more civilized standard of acceptance. You want to argue with that fact then you are arguing with the history of mankind.

And it's not pandering. It's just a ****ing romance. One easy passable. There really should be no reason to not at least accept homosexual romances unless you dislike homosexuals period.

The history of mankind? Civilized standards of acceptance? The history of mankind is about war, power, violence, greed, and people looking out for their own interests. Adding gay romances to pander to an audience because today's society has these bass-ackwards standards of "political correctness" isn't some historical landmark. And it is just that, pandering. It is all development time and resources that could be used on greater things.

[KawaiiKatie]

ReconTeam wrote...

Not everybody buys into today's insane level of political correctness where companies are supposed to cave into absurd demands like these.

It's not an "absurd" demand to ask for equal treatment and representation. Mass Effect's previous stance on same-sex pairings has boardered on lesbian exploitation, where a race of ultra-hot-stripper-lesbians was fine, but homosexual males was not. To ask for equality is not an absurd demand.

And yes, some of us would like to see old characters "retconned" into bisexuality. Though many of us would not see it as a retcon, I understand why you feel Kaidan's bisexuality would qualify. I take issue, however, with the assertion that this is an "absurd demand."

Yes, I would like to see bisexual Kaidan. But I'm not demanding it. I would be fine if he remained restricted to female Shepard. So long as male homosexuality is included in Mass Effect 3, I will be satisfied, and I don't feel that it is "absurd" to ask for it.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 12 juin 2011 - 07:20 .