30 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirata129]

Paragon is about idealism over effeciency. Renegade is about getting the job done no matter what the cost. Renegade does not mean I want to be a jerk to absolutely everyone I come across, especially my crew.

Support this Thread if you want conversations with crew to not have Paragon and Renegade points attached to them. Seriously, even Renegades want to be nice to our team mates. They have our back in a firefight and we have theirs.

[Faust1979]

yeah I agree you wouldn't want to be mean to someone that backs you up in a fight

[shepskisaac]

Agree. Too often renegade/paragon options are stereotypically black & white.

[zalfy]

I kind of understand why they did it that way.

[Aggie Punbot]

I agree with this.

[Skirata129]

it's kind of annoying how easy it is to be paragon, because most of the big choices I end up siding with renegade, but in everyday conversation I want to pick paragon and middle stuff but have to go with renegade so I get  to retain the loyalty to of my full crew in the arguments. So I end up in a position where I have to act like a jerk to Thane, tell Kelly to shove off and jump down the engineers throats for being surprised. It just throws me off that they equate doing what an officer should with being an ****.

Modifié par Skirata129, 12 juin 2011 - 05:17 .

[HogarthHughes 3]

I support this. Though to be honest, there are some conversations that result in renegade points with team members that aren't too negative. For instance, chats with Jacob and Mordin allow for the lower right dialogue choices without Shepard being a dick.

[Raiil]

I think that there should be separate 'renegade' responses for some conversations, and paragon as well. One would have no points attached- as an example, when you're talking to Thane about going after his wife's killers and he speaks about hunting them down, the 'renegade' response is essentially 'I don't blame you, they hurt innocents to get to you'- which nets a positive response from him. Well, relatively speaking- he doesn't get mad, and agrees with you. The real renegade response might be something harsher, which would elicit the actual points but provoke a bad reaction.

In the same scenario... I actually can't recall the paragon response to that conversation, but you could have an alternative one as well, something really lofty about justice (something really lawful good) that may actually lead to paragon points, but not necessarily a good reaction. These companions we take on aren't black and white and paragon/renegade- they're complex creatures who respond to certain stimuli in different ways, and our conversations reflect that.

[Skirata129]

Valentia X wrote...

I think that there should be separate 'renegade' responses for some conversations, and paragon as well. One would have no points attached- as an example, when you're talking to Thane about going after his wife's killers and he speaks about hunting them down, the 'renegade' response is essentially 'I don't blame you, they hurt innocents to get to you'- which nets a positive response from him. Well, relatively speaking- he doesn't get mad, and agrees with you. The real renegade response might be something harsher, which would elicit the actual points but provoke a bad reaction.

In the same scenario... I actually can't recall the paragon response to that conversation, but you could have an alternative one as well, something really lofty about justice (something really lawful good) that may actually lead to paragon points, but not necessarily a good reaction. These companions we take on aren't black and white and paragon/renegade- they're complex creatures who respond to certain stimuli in different ways, and our conversations reflect that.

This is exactly what I DON't want though. Renegade is not supposed to equal jerk, it's supposed to be pragmatism. which is what upsets me when playing, as to take the completley pragmatic route, I have to be a jerk as well. The renegade response to that particular statement was good for a renegade, where shepard says he would do the same, but when thane mentions he has a son, the "I get it, you spawned! Organic species tend to do that!" is way over the top.

Modifié par Skirata129, 12 juin 2011 - 05:46 .

[Fidget6]

I support this. My renegade femsheps are always nice to their crew (well, most of their crew.) and I don't want to lose any badass cred just cause I'm not a douche to my buds.

Modifié par Fidget6, 12 juin 2011 - 05:49 .

[Raiil]

Skirata129 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

I think that there should be separate 'renegade' responses for some conversations, and paragon as well. One would have no points attached- as an example, when you're talking to Thane about going after his wife's killers and he speaks about hunting them down, the 'renegade' response is essentially 'I don't blame you, they hurt innocents to get to you'- which nets a positive response from him. Well, relatively speaking- he doesn't get mad, and agrees with you. The real renegade response might be something harsher, which would elicit the actual points but provoke a bad reaction.

In the same scenario... I actually can't recall the paragon response to that conversation, but you could have an alternative one as well, something really lofty about justice (something really lawful good) that may actually lead to paragon points, but not necessarily a good reaction. These companions we take on aren't black and white and paragon/renegade- they're complex creatures who respond to certain stimuli in different ways, and our conversations reflect that.

This is exactly what I DON't want though. Renegade is not supposed to equal jerk, it's supposed to be pragmatism. which is what upsets me when playing, as to take the completley pragmatic route, I have to be a jerk as well. The renegade response to that particular statement was good for a renegade, where shepard says he would do the same, but when thane mentions he has a son, the "I get it, you spawned! Organic species tend to do that!" is way over the top.

What I'm saying is that for some of these conversations, an additional option should exist. So in essence, there's a 'soft' renegade response, with little to no points attached that reflect a renegade mindset without actually being mean, and a charm/intimidate option extra for those who actually want to RP being a holy paladin/douchebag of the universe. That way, both sides win. You and I play our renegades as people who are to the point/can understand why sometimes bloodshed is a virtue, but some people want to take it to the max, and with this option, both sides get exactly what they want.

ETA: in case I'm not being coherent enough:




This is essentially what I'm saying. More conversation options can allow us to min/max how our Shepard acts, because some of us really are just jerks, and others are so selfless and law-abiding you can't look at them directly without being blinded by their halo (and potentially, lack of personality )

Modifié par Valentia X, 12 juin 2011 - 06:02 .

[Skirata129]

but why is full renegade douche rocket and paragon pure paladin? that's not what they are supposed to be. conversation options that flesh out a personality shouldn't be either as paragon and renegade relate to a code of ethics rather than a personality type.

[Skirata129]

in other words, it's perfectly common to be polite and ruthless, as well as a moralistic sanctimonious ****.

[Biotic_Warlock]

I supposrt renegade/paragon friend/rival romances and bromances like in DA2...


... if that counts.

[Dannyboy9876]

You can be polite AND ruthless, you know. Just make the right choices.

[Lady Catastrophe]

I played through ME and ME2 with my 'canon' Shep and picked responses *I* would choose if I were actually in such a situation--thus I ended up with an almost paragade Shepard.
What I didn't like however was how telling Garrus to do what he thought was right rather than let himself be held down by C-Sec's regulations was considered a renegade response.

[Raiil]

Skirata129 wrote...

but why is full renegade douche rocket and paragon pure paladin? that's not what they are supposed to be. conversation options that flesh out a personality shouldn't be either as paragon and renegade relate to a code of ethics rather than a personality type.

I think you and I might be seeing things differently. The shining paladin isn't meant to be complimentary- it's meant to be so lawful good that it is, in fact, a sort of dickishness in and of itself. You know those smug, holier than thou jerkwads who are unable to context into a situation- 'murder is always bad! It doesn't matter that they were clearly defending themselves!'-? That's what I'm referring to.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

I played through ME and ME2 with my 'canon' Shep and picked responses *I* would choose if I were actually in such a situation--thus I ended up with an almost paragade Shepard.
What I didn't like however was how telling Garrus to do what he thought was right rather than let himself be held down by C-Sec's regulations was considered a renegade response.

That's what i did in my first run of ME2 =(

I lost a lot of special choices (since to max either paragon or renegade u have to end up choosing practically ever option available for it - bit silly, although in ME1 u could max paragon and renegade more).
So basically i ended up losing miranda loyalty, and couldn't choose morinth

http://i53.tinypic.com/2m3ixc7.png

INCORRECT.
Not all the time paragon is at the top.
If you refuse to help Liara the second time in ME2 (bottom right option) u get paragon points.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 12 juin 2011 - 01:30 .

[Whyp_2]

This thread has my support, but I don't think they will be there.

[Raiil]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

http://i53.tinypic.com/2m3ixc7.png

INCORRECT.
Not all the time paragon is at the top.
If you refuse to help Liara the second time in ME2 (bottom right option) u get paragon points.

Ahem.


A SELF MADE EXAMPLE OF WHAT I THINK I SHOULD HAPPEN IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.


aka what I think should happen in certain situations, not an actual dialoge wheel.

[Biotic_Warlock]

I see.
But i don't want it like that - i want my DA2 chat thumbnails (especially romantic hearts) XD

They were so fun (so i know how to make flemeth laugh)

[TheCrakFox]

I think they should just get rid of the metre alltogether in favour of a richer roleplaying experience where our decisions aren't influenced by teh pointz.

Or at least get rid of the point checks for persuasion options. Jeez.

[Lady Catastrophe]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

I see.
But i don't want it like that - i want my DA2 chat thumbnails (especially romantic hearts) XD

They were so fun (so i know how to make flemeth laugh)

The heart icon would have been helpful in ME1,seeing as I was ninjamanced by Liara on more than one occasion.

[Eleinehmm]

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

I see.
But i don't want it like that - i want my DA2 chat thumbnails (especially romantic hearts) XD

They were so fun (so i know how to make flemeth laugh)

The heart icon would have been helpful in ME1,seeing as I was ninjamanced by Liara on more than one occasion.

ME1 is famous for ninjamance, no questions

[Lady Catastrophe]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

I see.
But i don't want it like that - i want my DA2 chat thumbnails (especially romantic hearts) XD

They were so fun (so i know how to make flemeth laugh)

The heart icon would have been helpful in ME1,seeing as I was ninjamanced by Liara on more than one occasion.

ME1 is famous for ninjamance, no questions

That it is! I had to give Kaidan really jerky responses to make him back off.

Not that I minded doing that.